So do you believe in ghosts? Why?

[Steve Lovell]

My 2 cents.
If we take into account the multiverse theory then "ghost" could be the result of a crack into another of the infinite other realities that are existing along side our own.

 

[Ranorak]

Lol. So youre specifically targeting my belief, because i give a reason why? xD
And while yes, it is different, so are most theories that pop up.
You yes again, dont have to believe it. You can argue with it. But unless you understand every little bit of spacetime, the workings of every level of magnetism, and the every aspect of the human body, with definitive proof that theres another reason for ghosts existance, or non-existence, it just comes down to you, challanging my belief because you dont believe it.

You dont believe ghosts exist xD Fine. Why dont you believe they exist? Lets see what makes your reason they dont any stronger then my reason they do. ((Basically what your doing here))

We cant explain ghosts. We cant disprove them. No belief is wrong, nor right in this situation. My belief is based on more then most. The people who think, "YES THEY EXIST" normally dont give a reason why other then fuzzy photos. At least im making some effort to explain them other then, "Everyone whos seen one is crazy, paranoid or stupid".

The reason why I don't believe is the very logical and rational position of "proof it".
There is NO proof that ghosts exists.
To me Ghosts are just like Lochness monster, Bigfoot and Alien Abduction.
I'm not saying that they are 100% impossible. But as of yet, there is no real proof that they are real.

At least im making some effort to explain them other then, "Everyone whos seen one is crazy, paranoid or stupid".

I never said that.
Conformation bias, power of suggesting (even to one self), Face perception, wishful thinking, Sleep paralysis, Hollow-Face illusion etc. are not symptoms of being crazy, stupid or paranoid, they are the mind playing tricks on you.

But for the mind to play tricks on you, you have to believe there can be something there to begin with right? You cant have a trick played on you, if you dont believe in the trick to begin with. You have to be paranoid that something is there, for your mind to believe it can truly be there.

Your explanation for everyone being tricked is basically, "Everyone either has an overactive imagination or....." When the truth is, many credible witnesses have come forward. People who live near bears all theyre life know what is, and what isnt a bear.
To dismiss every single persons testimony ever as "a trick played by the mind" is to say that we cant use them in criminal trials, because they could have been fooled, or tricked into thinking it was somebody, because they saw a picture of that person.

And the fact that there is no proof of ghosts doesnt prove they dont exist, same goes with bigfoot, nessy, and aliens. Were finding new species everyday. Ever species we thought were looooooong extinct. Coelacanth, Lord Howe, and Cuban solenodon were all thought to be completely gone off the face of the earth.
Whos to say Gigantapithecus is? ((giant ape that walked on 2 legs))
We get new evidence every day. Just look at dark matter. We thought it wall as science fiction until we found out it made up the majority of the universe.

While yes, my belief is different ((and i cant stress that enough)), its not as far fetched as you'd think. Its an explanation for how they could exist.

You cant offer proof its wrong! So i must be mostly right! (basically what your saying)

A logical and rational person dont need proof to believe it exists. They use their logic and ration to find proof. ((either in favor, or to the contrary.))

First of all..


You don't need to believe anything to be fooled by your brain, it's really easy.
secondly, The burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

You are right, there are species of animals we never knew off before.
But there is a difference between ghosts, Bigfoot and Coelacanth.

All 3 made a claim of existence, only Coelacanth stood up to the burden of proof and provided solid, hard evidence. Ghosts don't have that. And when they do, I'll accept their existence, until then, they are like the Easter bunny and Thor. not real.

To dispute that something doesnt exist because of lack of evidence is to be closed minded xD

No, no it does not.
If someone makes a claim I am not close minded to not instantly believe them. If someone brought evidence to support that claim, and I STILL wouldn't believe them. That is close minded.

Stringing some weird "theory" about aura's, space time ripples and ghosts is not proof, it's not anything. It's a technobabble way which science-fiction explains things.

Your "theory" has no basis, no facts, no tests that support it, of course we're not going to believe it.

A logical and rational person dont need proof to believe it exists. They use their logic and ration to find proof. ((either in favor, or to the contrary.))

They find proof, exactly, not make it up, never test it and still claim it COULD be real.
It COULD also be a race of smart Mole-people that use flash lights and holograms just to fuck with us. It's just as likely.

 

[kouriichi]

But for the mind to play tricks on you, you have to believe there can be something there to begin with right? You cant have a trick played on you, if you dont believe in the trick to begin with. You have to be paranoid that something is there, for your mind to believe it can truly be there.

Your explanation for everyone being tricked is basically, "Everyone either has an overactive imagination or....." When the truth is, many credible witnesses have come forward. People who live near bears all theyre life know what is, and what isnt a bear.
To dismiss every single persons testimony ever as "a trick played by the mind" is to say that we cant use them in criminal trials, because they could have been fooled, or tricked into thinking it was somebody, because they saw a picture of that person.

And the fact that there is no proof of ghosts doesnt prove they dont exist, same goes with bigfoot, nessy, and aliens. Were finding new species everyday. Ever species we thought were looooooong extinct. Coelacanth, Lord Howe, and Cuban solenodon were all thought to be completely gone off the face of the earth.
Whos to say Gigantapithecus is? ((giant ape that walked on 2 legs))

To dispute that something doesnt exist because of lack of evidence is to be closed minded xD We get new evidence every day. Just look at dark matter. We thought it wall as science fiction until we found out it made up the majority of the universe.

While yes, my belief is different ((and i cant stress that enough)), its not as far fetched as you'd think. Its an explanation for how they could exist.

You cant offer proof its wrong! So i must be mostly right! (basically what your saying)

A logical and rational person dont need proof to believe it exists. They use their logic and ration to find proof. ((either in favor, or to the contrary.))

Yup you really dont know qwhat your talking about, its not my intention to be rude but its true.

Mate find an explanation of the scientific method and on the precepts of logic, as showing you why your talking out your arse would take me all bloody day.

xD Nice answer. Why is it when a person is confronted with hard logic, they stop debating and turn to insults?

Its not like its rocket science. Paranoia is dictated by fear. For fear to exist you have to believe something is even possible. The idea that everyone whos had a paranormal event has their mind being tricked, or has some sort of disorder is just insane! The chances of that are so unlikely, the possibility of it alone isnt logical. Every person would have to have a disability, or believe in ghosts from the beginning.

Also, how am i talking out my ass might i add? I presented facts, and disputed the "proof" of which he offered. Which comes down more to it being belief itself then proof. ((That everyone is weak minded and believes what they see over what they think))

Im not disputing that alot of sightings are due to human error. But to think that the millions there have been in history are ALL due to people freaking out over nothing? Thats a bit much.

 

[Lightning Delight]

Semantics could turn that around on you very quickly, my friend. Who is to say that you are not the one accusing ghosts of not existing, and I am merely skeptical or your opinion? How do we decide which party is the accuser and which is the defender?

No, you simply don't understand the scientific method. You are just trying to get out of proving your claims by inverting the burden of evidence, which is bullshit, plain and simple.

The default position is that something doesn't exist. In order for something to be considered to exist, you need solid proof. You don't just say that something exists without any proof whatsoever then demand that other people disprove their existence.

Why do I have to keep explaining this? This is Science 101 for crying out loud!

Actually, that time I was just trying to point out that he should just watch the way he words things. I know that I am the one who needs to offer proof.

 

[Togs]

No, you simply don't understand the scientific method. You are just trying to get out of proving your claims by inverting the burden of evidence, which is bullshit, plain and simple.

The default position is that something doesn't exist. In order for something to be considered to exist, you need solid proof. You don't just say that something exists without any proof whatsoever then demand that other people disprove their existence.

Why do I have to keep explaining this? This is Science 101 for crying out loud!

This whole thread is making me wonder what on earth kids are getting taught in science classes, after awhile of arguing with every "believer" it comes to light how little they understand how this stuff works.

 

[Ranorak]

xD Nice answer. Why is it when a person is confronted with hard logic, they stop debating and turn to insults?

Its not like its rocket science. Paranoia is dictated by fear. For fear to exist you have to believe something is even possible. The idea that everyone whos had a paranormal event has their mind being tricked, or has some sort of disorder is just insane! The chances of that are so unlikely, the possibility of it alone isnt logical. Every person would have to have a disability, or believe in ghosts from the beginning.

Also, how am i talking out my ass might i add? I presented facts, and disputed the "proof" of which he offered. Which comes down more to it being belief itself then proof. ((That everyone is weak minded and believes what they see over what they think))

Im not disputing that alot of sightings are due to human error. But to think that the millions there have been in history are ALL due to people freaking out over nothing? Thats a bit much.

No, you didn't

You never gave us a fact.

 

[Togs]

xD Nice answer. Why is it when a person is confronted with hard logic, they stop debating and turn to insults?

Its not like its rocket science. Paranoia is dictated by fear. For fear to exist you have to believe something is even possible. The idea that everyone whos had a paranormal event has their mind being tricked, or has some sort of disorder is just insane! The chances of that are so unlikely, the possibility of it alone isnt logical. Every person would have to have a disability, or believe in ghosts from the beginning.

Also, how am i talking out my ass might i add? I presented facts, and disputed the "proof" of which he offered. Which comes down more to it being belief itself then proof. ((That everyone is weak minded and believes what they see over what they think))

Im not disputing that alot of sightings are due to human error. But to think that the millions there have been in history are ALL due to people freaking out over nothing? Thats a bit much.

No its not too much, as has been pointed out to you more times that I can count, and your talking out your arse as your "proof" was torn too shreds as soon as you posted it, but you refused to accept it and kept posting and posting regardless of what anyone said to you- its not logic your using but plain old belligerence, inf act I find it quite insultign that you claim such a thing when its blatantly obvious.

Im starting to suspect your troll, as any other person would of long ago given up or just walked away.

 

[kouriichi]

Lol. So youre specifically targeting my belief, because i give a reason why? xD
And while yes, it is different, so are most theories that pop up.
You yes again, dont have to believe it. You can argue with it. But unless you understand every little bit of spacetime, the workings of every level of magnetism, and the every aspect of the human body, with definitive proof that theres another reason for ghosts existance, or non-existence, it just comes down to you, challanging my belief because you dont believe it.

You dont believe ghosts exist xD Fine. Why dont you believe they exist? Lets see what makes your reason they dont any stronger then my reason they do. ((Basically what your doing here))

We cant explain ghosts. We cant disprove them. No belief is wrong, nor right in this situation. My belief is based on more then most. The people who think, "YES THEY EXIST" normally dont give a reason why other then fuzzy photos. At least im making some effort to explain them other then, "Everyone whos seen one is crazy, paranoid or stupid".

The reason why I don't believe is the very logical and rational position of "proof it".
There is NO proof that ghosts exists.
To me Ghosts are just like Lochness monster, Bigfoot and Alien Abduction.
I'm not saying that they are 100% impossible. But as of yet, there is no real proof that they are real.

At least im making some effort to explain them other then, "Everyone whos seen one is crazy, paranoid or stupid".

I never said that.
Conformation bias, power of suggesting (even to one self), Face perception, wishful thinking, Sleep paralysis, Hollow-Face illusion etc. are not symptoms of being crazy, stupid or paranoid, they are the mind playing tricks on you.

But for the mind to play tricks on you, you have to believe there can be something there to begin with right? You cant have a trick played on you, if you dont believe in the trick to begin with. You have to be paranoid that something is there, for your mind to believe it can truly be there.

Your explanation for everyone being tricked is basically, "Everyone either has an overactive imagination or....." When the truth is, many credible witnesses have come forward. People who live near bears all theyre life know what is, and what isnt a bear.
To dismiss every single persons testimony ever as "a trick played by the mind" is to say that we cant use them in criminal trials, because they could have been fooled, or tricked into thinking it was somebody, because they saw a picture of that person.

And the fact that there is no proof of ghosts doesnt prove they dont exist, same goes with bigfoot, nessy, and aliens. Were finding new species everyday. Ever species we thought were looooooong extinct. Coelacanth, Lord Howe, and Cuban solenodon were all thought to be completely gone off the face of the earth.
Whos to say Gigantapithecus is? ((giant ape that walked on 2 legs))
We get new evidence every day. Just look at dark matter. We thought it wall as science fiction until we found out it made up the majority of the universe.

While yes, my belief is different ((and i cant stress that enough)), its not as far fetched as you'd think. Its an explanation for how they could exist.

You cant offer proof its wrong! So i must be mostly right! (basically what your saying)

A logical and rational person dont need proof to believe it exists. They use their logic and ration to find proof. ((either in favor, or to the contrary.))

First of all..


You don't need to believe anything to be fooled by your brain, it's really easy.
secondly, The burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

You are right, there are species of animals we never knew off before.
But there is a difference between ghosts, Bigfoot and Coelacanth.

All 3 made a claim of existence, only Coelacanth stood up to the burden of proof and provided solid, hard evidence. Ghosts don't have that. And when they do, I'll accept their existence, until then, they are like the Easter bunny and Thor. not real.

To dispute that something doesnt exist because of lack of evidence is to be closed minded xD

No, no it does not.
If someone makes a claim I am not close minded to not instantly believe them. If someone brought evidence to support that claim, and I STILL wouldn't believe them. That is close minded.

Stringing some weird "theory" about aura's, space time ripples and ghosts is not proof, it's not anything. It's a technobabble way which science-fiction explains things.

Your "theory" has no basis, no facts, no tests that support it, of course we're not going to believe it.

A logical and rational person dont need proof to believe it exists. They use their logic and ration to find proof. ((either in favor, or to the contrary.))

They find proof, exactly, not make it up, never test it and still claim it COULD be real.
It COULD also be a race of smart Mole-people that use flash lights and holograms just to fuck with us. It's just as likely.

I never said it was PROOF xD Whats with everyone thinking im saying, "THIS IS RIGHT BECAUSE I SAID SO."

I never said it was proof. I never said i was right. I said its my belief. I said its wasnt 100% accurate even by my standards. xD i explained why i think it. I backed it up with science. Humans give off an aura. Magnetic, electrical, emotional, or something else. Humans give off an aura.

Spacetime if effected by all things, because all things take up a position in space time.

Spacetime can ripple, giving off long lasting effects through the future. ((Einstein himself believed in these))

Ghosts may just be manifestations of these ripples in spacetime, due to residual energy.

The only part of that which is truly not fact, is the last part, because we cant explain the last part xD Because we dont know what ghosts are. You believe they are just things we are imagining. Is that a fact, or a belief? Its a belief, because you have no proof to back it up.

Just as my idea, IS A BELIEF. Its not 100%, as ive said several times not. And i never claimed it was CORRECT IN EVERY WAY, like you seem to think i did.

The simple fact is, "We dont know". Were all allowed to draw our own conclusions to what ghosts are. You can prove there have never been any chickens to fire lasers out of theyre eyes((because the simple fact is, to generate that much energy in a single location would be nearly impossible.)), but to say that something youve never studied extensively and say, "Your belief is impossible because you have no proof" is well..... Stupid xD because its a belief to being with.

 

[kouriichi]

xD Nice answer. Why is it when a person is confronted with hard logic, they stop debating and turn to insults?

Its not like its rocket science. Paranoia is dictated by fear. For fear to exist you have to believe something is even possible. The idea that everyone whos had a paranormal event has their mind being tricked, or has some sort of disorder is just insane! The chances of that are so unlikely, the possibility of it alone isnt logical. Every person would have to have a disability, or believe in ghosts from the beginning.

Also, how am i talking out my ass might i add? I presented facts, and disputed the "proof" of which he offered. Which comes down more to it being belief itself then proof. ((That everyone is weak minded and believes what they see over what they think))

Im not disputing that alot of sightings are due to human error. But to think that the millions there have been in history are ALL due to people freaking out over nothing? Thats a bit much.

No its not too much, as has been pointed out to you more times that I can count, and your talking out your arse as your "proof" was torn too shreds as soon as you posted it, but you refused to accept it and kept posting and posting regardless of what anyone said to you- its not logic your using but plain old belligerence, inf act I find it quite insultign that you claim such a thing when its blatantly obvious.

Im starting to suspect your troll, as any other person would of long ago given up or just walked away.

No i dont give up on a good debate.

Fact: Spacetime exists.
Fact: The human body gives off an "aura". (Magnetic, electrical, emotional, its an aura. Its exists. Its been proven))
Fact: All objects take a position in spacetime. (this includes the "aura" which living things, including humans give off)
Fact: Ripples in spacetime were purposed by, and believed by one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. (Einstein)
Fact: Auras effect spacetime, because they occupy space in it.

After that, its all up to what you want to believe in. You can believe im wrong, but right there are 5 facts xD all of which you cannot dispute, unless you have advanced teachings IN those fields.

And as i said in my first post. ITS NOT FACT. ITS MY "BELIEF". I never said it was right. I never said it was correct. I wouldnt still be here posting if people didnt TROLL me to being with, over the fact my belief may NOT BE CORRECT!

"OH NO! LORD FORBID HIS BELIEF ISNT 100% SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN, BACKED UP AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE PERFICT!" xD Seriously. Your sitting here, hammering on something i said WASNT RIGHT.

 

[Togs]

No i dont give up on a good debate.

Fact: Spacetime exists.
Fact: The human body gives off an "aura". (Magnetic, electrical, emotional, its an aura. Its exists. Its been proven))
Fact: All objects take a position in spacetime. (this includes the "aura" which living things, including humans give off)
Fact: Ripples in spacetime were purposed by, and believed by one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. (Einstein)
Fact: Auras effect spacetime, because they occupy space in it.

After that, its all up to what you want to believe in. You can believe im wrong, but right there are 5 facts xD all of which you cannot dispute, unless you have advanced teachings IN those fields.

And as i said in my first post. ITS NOT FACT. ITS MY "BELIEF". I never said it was right. I never said it was correct. I wouldnt still be here posting if people didnt TROLL me to being with, over the fact my belief may NOT BE CORRECT!

"OH NO! LORD FORBID HIS BELIEF ISNT 100% SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN, BACKED UP AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE PERFICT!" xD Seriously. Your sitting here, hammering on something i said WASNT RIGHT.

I stand corrected, your not just a troll your bloody good one- that was actually funny, especially the one where you contradict yourself by stating its fact and then stating it hasnt been proved its just your belief.
Mate I take my hat off to you but gotta warn you, the mods dont tend to let your kind run around for long.
Im gonna be watching your posts with great interest, gos knows I could do with a laugh about now.

 

[kouriichi]

No i dont give up on a good debate.

Fact: Spacetime exists.
Fact: The human body gives off an "aura". (Magnetic, electrical, emotional, its an aura. Its exists. Its been proven))
Fact: All objects take a position in spacetime. (this includes the "aura" which living things, including humans give off)
Fact: Ripples in spacetime were purposed by, and believed by one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. (Einstein)
Fact: Auras effect spacetime, because they occupy space in it.

After that, its all up to what you want to believe in. You can believe im wrong, but right there are 5 facts xD all of which you cannot dispute, unless you have advanced teachings IN those fields.

And as i said in my first post. ITS NOT FACT. ITS MY "BELIEF". I never said it was right. I never said it was correct. I wouldnt still be here posting if people didnt TROLL me to being with, over the fact my belief may NOT BE CORRECT!

"OH NO! LORD FORBID HIS BELIEF ISNT 100% SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN, BACKED UP AND NOBEL PEACE PRIZE PERFICT!" xD Seriously. Your sitting here, hammering on something i said WASNT RIGHT.

I stand corrected, your not just a troll your bloody good one- that was actually funny, especially the one where you contradict yourself by stating its fact and then stating it hasnt been proved its just your belief.
Mate I take my hat off to you but gotta warn you, the mods dont tend to let your kind run around for long.
Im gonna be watching your posts with great interest, gos knows I could do with a laugh about now.

If i wanted to troll, i would have gone to a twilight thread xD They send the best hate mail.
And what isnt a fact?
That spacetime is real?
That all objects take up space in it?
That all living things give off an electric/magnetic/emotion field?

What part of that isnt true? xD
And as i said. THIS IS MY BELIEF. Im not trolling. This is literally what i believe. A good scientist doesnt say, "Show me proof". They say, "We dont know". Because nearly anything is possible.
Your calling me a troll, and your sitting here making a mockery of my belief, because it doesnt fit with your picture perfect idea of what a belief should be?
Did i every say, "Ghosts ARE REAL AND THEY EXIST IN TIME SPACE!"
No. I said my belief is that they COULD be. That its the most Scientific and Logical reason for ghosts ive been able to come up with. xD lets see you come up with a better reason for how ghosts can exist.

 

[Ranorak]

Fact: Spacetime exists.

Yup

Fact: The human body gives off an "aura". (Magnetic, electrical, emotional, its an aura. Its exists. Its been proven))

au·ra (ôr)
n. pl. au·ras or au·rae (ôr)
1. An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation.
2. A distinctive but intangible quality that seems to surround a person or thing; atmosphere: An aura of defeat pervaded the candidate's headquarters.
3. Pathology A sensation, as of a cold breeze or a bright light, that precedes the onset of certain disorders, such as an epileptic seizure or an attack of migraine.

No, it has not been proven.
Aura's are a thing of (spiritual) fiction.
A electric field is not a aura.
A magnetic field is not a aura.
Emotions are levels of hormones and brain functions, they don't glow outside of you.

Fact: All objects take a position in spacetime. (this includes the "aura" which living things, including humans give off)

Even if Aura's are real, and they are electromagnetic, they cannot be sustained without their source. Turn off the battery and the magnetic field is gone. Ergo, if the field were to travel through space time, the source would be there too.

Not to mention. Why does this space time traveling only happen with auras? And not people?

Fact: Ripples in spacetime were purposed by, and believed by one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. (Einstein)

proof by authority is not proof.

Fact: Auras effect spacetime, because they occupy space in it.

Like I said, if Aura's are magnetic, they don't occupy space, they simply are a field that effects things, they are not things on their own.

 

[kouriichi]

Fact: Spacetime exists.

Yup

Fact: The human body gives off an "aura". (Magnetic, electrical, emotional, its an aura. Its exists. Its been proven))

au·ra (ôr)
n. pl. au·ras or au·rae (ôr)
1. An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation.
2. A distinctive but intangible quality that seems to surround a person or thing; atmosphere: An aura of defeat pervaded the candidate's headquarters.
3. Pathology A sensation, as of a cold breeze or a bright light, that precedes the onset of certain disorders, such as an epileptic seizure or an attack of migraine.

No, it has not been proven.
Aura's are a thing of (spiritual) fiction.
A electric field is not a aura.
A magnetic field is not a aura.
Emotions are levels of hormones and brain functions, they don't glow outside of you.

Fact: All objects take a position in spacetime. (this includes the "aura" which living things, including humans give off)

Even if Aura's are real, and they are electromagnetic, they cannot be sustained without their source. Turn off the battery and the magnetic field is gone. Ergo, if the field were to travel through space time, the source would be there too.

Not to mention. Why does this space time traveling only happen with auras? And not people?

Fact: Ripples in spacetime were purposed by, and believed by one of the greatest scientific minds of all time. (Einstein)

proof by authority is not proof.

Fact: Auras effect spacetime, because they occupy space in it.

Like I said, if Aura's are magnetic, they don't occupy space, they simply are a field that effects things, they are not things on their own.

Aura's have been proven. But they arnt called aura's xD
Theyre called L-fields in living creatures. (aura is a MUCH easier term to use. the 1st definition being "An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation". Thus an L-field is an aura)

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No body has disproved the idea of ripples in spacetime, because its something impossible to quantify at the moment. Just as dark matter was. And atoms were.

It comes down to the fact that im not "wrong" like your trying to state. (arguing semantics such as me using the word "aura" instead of electromagnetic emanation doesnt exactly change anything xD)

 

[DeadlyYellow]

I'm more akin to the theory of a psionic imprint over spirits of the deceased.

Please do elaborate. I'd be pretty interested in exactly what you mean by this.

Residual energy left by heightened bio-electrolytic pulses. Causes resonance when exposed to an energy source.

 

[capper42]

I don't believe in ghosts at all. It's such a realistic concept when you think about it logically.

Surely if humans become ghosts, other animals will as well. This means that, to use an example, every single insect that has ever died, which is probably somewhere in the trillions, exists as a ghost. Although living people may be unaware of their existence, human ghosts will be constantly walking on and covered in different insects, which is surely enough to drive even a ghost completely insane.

If only certain species become ghosts, then why is this? What's the criteria for earning ghostdom?

 

[Woodsey]

No I don't, and I have no respect for people that do. People who believe in ghosts are the worst form of gullible tools. Do you believe in santa claus too? Seriously, you are an embarrassment.

It is quite interesting how older ideas are simply granted the right to "serious inspection", in spite of them existing on the same level of bullshit as newer ones (like Santa) which people are happy to disregard as being for children.

It always comes to mind when people discuss Scientology, actually. Obviously complete shit, but lizard alien overlords (or whatever it is) is no less ridiculous then an all-knowing (and particularly narcissistic) being living on a different plane of existence.

 

[Kargathia]

Ah but thats where the crux of the arguement comes in- things people assign to supernatural elements can be explained through more mundane means, that eery howl is just the wind blowing through a key hole or that scary shadow is just a distorted shadow cast by a piece of furniture.
The stuff that cant be explained like that doesnt automatically prove the nonbelievers wrong until the believers can explain it using the scientific method as empirically obtained evidence is the only way to be sure that said evidence is correct- thats not being close minded its common sense.
And taking an agnostic standpoint is diplomatically admirable but not really a good one in any other way, especially when our good friend Logic says that we can predict the probability of the nonbelievers being right.
And you've got a rather unique view on insanity- if it was me Id get up and submit myself for psychiatric obversation quick sharp.

This fence I'm sitting on is pretty much the same position you're occupying - it's just a bit more ambivalent.
I don't understand all things scientific, as I'm merely human. Neither do I understand everything attributed to the supernatural. I can also safely bet that you've enjoyed stories or movies involving anything not explainable by science.

I accept science because it works, I accept ghost stories because a fascination with the unknown is good entertainment. They're like magic tricks: no fun once explained.
Which is not to say that they don't have an explanation: everything does. The debate mainly centers around whether it's an occurence of something already known (eg. spooky shadows caused by your chair), unknown (eg. lightning before mankind figured out electricity), or something psychological (eg. hallucinations).

And as to your point about insanity: I'd certainly enjoy an apparition showing up, and having a chat. The problem in real life is that insanity usually is not this innocent or harmless.

 

[Ranorak]

Aura's have been proven. But they arnt called aura's xD
Theyre called L-fields in living creatures. (aura is a MUCH easier term to use. the 1st definition being "An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation". Thus an L-field is an aura)

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No body has disproved the idea of ripples in spacetime, because its something impossible to quantify at the moment. Just as dark matter was. And atoms were.

It comes down to the fact that im not "wrong" like your trying to state. (arguing semantics such as me using the word "aura" instead of electromagnetic emanation doesnt exactly change anything xD)

L-fields are so called electromagnetic fields that living bodies generate. Because, of ion exchanges in our cells. We need those to live.

They are just that, electromagnetic fields generated by a power source.

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No, if you turn off the source, the electromagnetic field goes away. Why do you think your bicycle light goes out when you stop riding?

You still make a HUGE, Occam's razor defining, leap to assume that a electromagnetic field can travel without it's source.
Let alone be observed.
Interact.
React and do the general thing people claim ghosts do.

Your believes hold no ground in actual science.
You thought of a neat little idea how to explain ghosts, by using unrelated scientific principles, without tests, without proper udnerstanding what those principles are.

In the end, your believe is nothing more then a kid trying to explain a magic trick, inventing ropes that can pass through hula-hoops.

 

[kouriichi]

Aura's have been proven. But they arnt called aura's xD
Theyre called L-fields in living creatures. (aura is a MUCH easier term to use. the 1st definition being "An invisible breath, emanation, or radiation". Thus an L-field is an aura)

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No body has disproved the idea of ripples in spacetime, because its something impossible to quantify at the moment. Just as dark matter was. And atoms were.

It comes down to the fact that im not "wrong" like your trying to state. (arguing semantics such as me using the word "aura" instead of electromagnetic emanation doesnt exactly change anything xD)

L-fields are so called electromagnetic fields that living bodies generate. Because, of ion exchanges in our cells. We need those to live.

They are just that, electromagnetic fields generated by a power source.

And all things take up a place in spacetime. If the aura was there once, it will be there forever, weather on or off.

No, if you turn off the source, the electromagnetic field goes away. Why do you think your bicycle light goes out when you stop riding?

You still make a HUGE, Occam's razor defining, leap to assume that a electromagnetic field can travel without it's source.
Let alone be observed.
Interact.
React and do the general thing people claim ghosts do.

Your believes hold no ground in actual science.
You thought of a neat little idea how to explain ghosts, by using unrelated scientific principles, without tests, without proper udnerstanding what those principles are.

In the end, your believe is nothing more then a kid trying to explain a magic trick, inventing ropes that can pass through hula-hoops.

Isnt that all i said it was in the beginning? xD
That it WASNT 100%? Yet you and several other people hound me on every detail that isnt perfect?

I said my qualifications were just those of an advanced high school student, and that this was ONLY my belief.
Yet everyone under the golden sun decides, "lets pick on him because we dont think hes right".

lets get to your side of the argument now. What are your qualifications to speak on spacetime, and the effects electromagnetics impose on it?
Whats the reason ghosts CANT exist? How can you prove that every single witness to every paranormal event in history was just fool'd by theyre mind.

xD While my idea is not perfect, i never claimed it was. I literally said, "This is my belief, and its the most logical, scientific answer i could come up with."
Can you do better?

 

[Ranorak]

Isnt that all i said it was in the beginning? xD
That it WASNT 100%? Yet you and several other people hound me on every detail that isnt perfect?

I said my qualifications were just those of an advanced high school student, and that this was ONLY my belief.
Yet everyone under the golden sun decides, "lets pick on him because we dont think hes right".

lets get to your side of the argument now. What are your qualifications to speak on spacetime, and the effects electromagnetics impose on it?
Whats the reason ghosts CANT exist? How can you prove that every single witness to every paranormal event in history was just fool'd by theyre mind.

xD While my idea is not perfect, i never claimed it was. I literally said, "This is my belief, and its the most logical, scientific answer i could come up with."
Can you do better?

my qualifications are Biochemical, microbiology and genetics.
AKA, a firm understanding of the scientific theory.
Electromagnetic fields are the result of a current moving passed a stationary charge. This field is not made up by particles, it's just particles react to the field.

By removing the field's source, the particles go back to their original formations, thus the field is lost.
That is why the effects of a field cannot exists without a source.
Because it's not a mass on it's own, but rather the effect it has on normal particles, it cannot travel through space time, because the source is gone.

And the reason why ghosts can't exist.
Because conscience is a product of the brain.
We are conscience because our brain is working the way it does.
Once we die, and our brains stops working, our conscience stops working.

There is no magical, spiritual or whatever, residue that stays behind, because the moment you die, the power source that made the electronic signals in your head work, is gone as well.

Another reason, is that of observation.
In the last 100 years more people have died then there are currently alive.
Even if we were to hold the believes of Creationism, and the earth is only 6000 years old. That would mean that there would be countless and countless of ghosts. millions of millions of people died with regret, sorrow, pain, or whatever.

Yet the number of ghost sightings is ridiculously low.

Even though countless upon countless people have done research into this, it all fails.
And, like I said before.

If ghosts were real, my dead grandpa, who is as curious and scientificly orientated as me, would have haunted me to show me it was real.