So.... Korrasami is canon.
- Thread starter Ironbat92
- Start date
Honestly I didn't say anything about that one because none really talked about it. If people where praising that as being the best thing since sliced bread I would likely respond to that as well, but they don't. I thought it was well understood that the romances where the weakest part of the writing in Avatar just like Bioware.ryukage_sama said:
I mean I don't think I would have put it so bluntly but yeah in many ways I agree. We aren't shown enough, there is nothing for them to really do, and it's just boring. And if I'm honest I do think it's getting a pass because "the characters are gay." Witch I don't think should matter. Framing this as being a good "gay romance" when it would be a poor straight one? Isn't that a bit counterintuitive? I mean I guess it's better then nothing but I think that's a poor metric to judge things by.Ishal said:
Eff whatever if people enjoy it let them I don't care.
My point, before you jumped into whatever crusade you started talking about, was that there are people who have watched the whole series, are annoyed by the ending, and are considered homophobes because they hold the opinion that it was poorly written and badly implied. And then I have my own opinion on how the relationship and character arcs have been written over the previous three seasons and I'm simply assuming they handle them roughly the same way and with the same level of finesse as before(none). Creators are fine to think whatever they want, but saying that the only reason somebody could not get it is because they're looking through a hetero-normative lens is stereotypical Tumblr logic at best.LifeCharacter said:
It is not intellectually dishonest to say what I said. It's an opinion, personal experience and one that I went with a minimum of effort for why I believed it, because I didn't think it would need to be explained more, with the passing and first-person knowledge of the platform with the rest of the internet. Tumblr is not one massive entity, you are right. Which is why I said in these specific situations on said site, hetero may as well mean bigot, because, from my few interactions with a variety of silly people on that site from varied fandoms and interests, it did.
I'm torn on it, I really am.Eddie the head said:
Make no mistake, I dislike Legend of Korra for a multitude of reasons. I think it came nowhere near TLA in terms of quality. I dislike shipping culture even more, in whatever fandom it's in. But at the same time... I hate what I had to say in that last post up the thread. I hate it when people accuse things of pandering. There are usually reasons why things happen in any given thing other than pandering. There are things to point to that validate whatever topic is under fire. But the unfortunate thing is, in this case, there just isn't.
Everything they did together was normal behavior for two close friends until the last 15 seconds of the finale.
> "Korra wrote letters to Asami! It's clear that means a lot"
Let's examine her choices. She coulds write to her ex-boyfriend or Bolin who never seems to take anything seriously. And was kind of a moron in season 2. Korra and Asami are close in age, female, and have similar histories so it makes sense that Korra would write to her only female friend about her problems. It's natural thing friends do. If the letters did indeed mean so much, why did Korra stop writing to Asami? You wouldn't do that to someone you care about intimately.
> "They drank tea together!"
So did Korra with half the cast. Does that mean she wants Tenzin?
> "Korra blushed when Asami complimented her hair! You can't deny this!"
It's natural for someone to be embarrassed by a compliment. By this logic, Bolin secretly harbors a love for Lin because he blushed after she fixed his zipper.
> "Asami was the only one at Korra's bedside supporting her!"
Again, that's what friends do. Only reason it wasn't someone else was because Asami barely had any screentime in book 3. Her role was to emotionally support Korra. If you look at Asami's character arc during book 1-3, the writers clearly ran out of things for her to do. She became a support for Korra, and even then, she has the least amount of screen time in the series out of all the major characters. If Asami wasn't there to support Korra's angst she wouldn't have been there at all.
Furthermore, the idea that Korra and Asami would be in love with Mako but then go Bi for each other is a poor coincidence. It would have made more sense for there to be a separate female character who had nothing to do with Mako at all. But we can clearly see Bryke just adjusted the points of the love triangle instead.
There's the idea that they didn't know what they wanted. They were bisexual, they both liked Mako, and now they might be growing feelings for each other. I am more than willing to entertain that idea. Maybe that was part of the relationship, that they didn't know they liked each other. but we never see this happen on screen
You want to talk about subtext? Why is there more subtext for Kuvira x Korra than Korrasami? Arey Bryke this awful at displaying intimacy?
All of this shows that they didn't do enough. Tons of people aren't satisfied for legitimate reasons. They should have done more, and the simple fact is that they didn't. The more you see people claiming how obvious it was, the more those people reveal themselves as shippers who only saw these things because they look for them on purpose, then blow them way out of proportion.
It is by and large going to "get a pass" because of what it is. And I get why. It shouldn't be such a big thing, but it is. People who want this kind of stuff are starved for it, and to finally get it, of course they'll love it. I can't really blame them. But I still think it was poor, and should have been handled way better. But hey, that goes for the entire series.
That's what's been bugging about some of the Korrasami praising! I mean, even from a western [children's] animated television show perspective, even Cartoon Network's Clarence beat LoK not once, but TWICE both heavily implied and just being there from the story perspective... Granted, one of those times was, I'm pretty sure, a married lesbian couple, but I [kinda] digress... (Now, I'm wondering why Nick's live-action [teen] show lineup lacks that kind of inclusiveness... unless I'm missing something here...)BigTuk said:
OT: WOO! <color=white>Kinda wished it was Mako and Wu, though, but I digress...
Other than that, it looks like Korra's true legacy was in the form of in-canon inclusiveness... Now, to wait for the sequel comic/graphic novels to come out...
Methinks you underestimate the importance of physicality here. Grabbing somebody's hand can mean a variety of things, largely distinguished by how the characters act around the action. 'Fearful' hand holding, for instance may involve a tremble in the arms, a small squeeze for reassurance sake, a visible swallow, inclined eyebrows, wide eyes, dilated pupils to create a hesitant smile before refocusing on what's causing that apprehension, tense music in the background, and so on. There are a lot of small physical cues that convey the intent of the action, which actors, directors, and animators alike take pains to get just right.Redryhno said:
In the interest of completion, however, you mentioned that you haven't actually seen the scene. Allow me to give you a quick in-depth runthrough of it. Motive for the scene, Korra and Asami have decided to go on a 'just the two of them' vacation to the spirit world and are now close to the spirit portal. They stop and look at it for a moment before giving a relaxed smile and looking at one another. The camera shifts to between the two of them to show them grab each other's hand, and as they walk forward the camera pans up to show that they are maintaining eye contact. They enter the light of the portal and turn to more fully face one another, reaching over to grab the free hand as they do, resulting in a pose not unlike a couple at a wedding altar (one seen in couples several times throughout the Avatar franchise, including a bride and groom not five minutes before this scene), the light of the spirit portal then creates a fade to white as the camera pans up above them, leaving them staring at one another as the effective final shot before "the end" appears on screen.
From a theatrical standpoint, that's very unambiguously romantic stage direction. The close friends variation might still have zoomed in on their hands, but the two would be facing forward as they approached the portal and wouldn't have adopted the 'dearly beloved' pose when they reached it. They'd smile, grab a hand, face forward into the unknown and walk forward, focusing on the destination rather than the person they'd be experiencing it with. That would be platonic blocking for the scene.
So a gay person is dense as lead for being insulted by a thin-skinned writer insulting them? That makes sense. And also sounds incredibly homophobic. Congrats for the double whammy.Ieyke said:
I don't care if the internet gave him crap. I don't care if Nick gave him crap. I don't care if the Pope himself gave him crap over that decision, you blame the audience and you automatically lose the argument. End of discussion. No self respecting writer should ever have to go to that level and yet there ya go.
Then again I tend to feel like the finales of Avatar are full of things coming outta nowhere so this is just one more for the pile.
For my part, I was the audience and it certainly didn't feel like he blamed me; it felt like he was beyond caring that I agree with him. (Which I did. Agree, that is. I agreed with his sentiment.)misfit119 said:
But anyway. Now people are getting into the ugly business of devaluing each other's opinions, and that's sucking the fun out of this particular subject, so I'll skip on out of here like most other participants have and celebrate on the S.S. Korrasami, where the drinks are free and the sailing is smooth.
Speaking for everyone:Redryhno said:
TLA did a lot of hand holding, as is befitting a cartoon series primarily aimed at 8-12 year olds. Legend of Korra was aimed at many of these same people who are now older and many around high-school age, thus "high school level drama" is on par with its target audience and the age of the characters in the show.Redryhno said:
If you cared to uncut everything around that quote, you'd see that I was talking from personal experience with people I consider friends who share the same opinion in that regard.ryukage_sama said:
As for the rest, TLA started in '05. And I'd seriously like to know what 8 year old you knew that could understand half of what was going on in that show? It was not written with 8-12 year olds as the primary demographic, despite the network it aired on. It is a show that ended up closer to the teen demographic if it was even aimed at kids younger than that at all. Death, betrayal, family infighting, lifelong grudges and sorrow, these are not even half the things kids can, or should, be as exposed to at 8 as TLA often times did.
Now, skip forward to 2012, 7 years. Most of the people that remember and praise it so highly are not in highschool, they're in college and beyond. And give me a break, TLA covered topics alot heavier than season 1-3 of Korra. The worst thing I can think of that happened is her losing the connection to her past lives in season 2 and even that is nowhere near what was felt and speculated over for the Appa kidnapping, Aang first returning to the Air Temple, Azula hitting him with the lightning, Tales of Ba Sing Se, and the Cabbage Merchant. Again, what I've seen and personally experienced with friends and the internet, so you don't think I'm talking for everyone again.
There was hand-holding in TLA, I don't think I disputed that, but Korra basically got a group of hands to do nearly everything for her. Sure they showed her on the brink of stuff going down and her in danger about six times a season, but she was nearly always given the way out for the sake of the plot.
It's possible someone's already said this, but bloody hell - I've been putting off watching the season until it was done and I could watch it in quick succession, and then I see this topic at the top of the active threads thing that shows up on the main page. Would it be at all possible for you to change the name of this thread to NOT be super spoilerific, or at the very least, preface it with SPOILERS and enough text so that it doesn't jump into my brain as I read down the main page?
Since I'm here, thought I should jump in and say that it sounds like a good idea, depends on how well it's executed, which I will assume is not too well, just out of the blue, but will probably still work for me as long as they play it right after skipping over the actual development of the relationship. It would also be fine if they didn't want to go for romantic entanglements at the end, but given that setting a possible happily-ever-after scenario thematically works best for the series (I'm assuming that's where it's going), the romantic element helps sell/ensure that for most folks, so it probably makes the show work the best for the most people, so I'm good with that.
And as for comments I've seen regarding lesbian couples in animation, while it's true that in Japanese animation there's a well-established history of that, I'm not familiar with it in western animation, and I think that what Korra and Avatar have done in this case and in general is pretty outstanding for their genre and medium.
Since I'm here, thought I should jump in and say that it sounds like a good idea, depends on how well it's executed, which I will assume is not too well, just out of the blue, but will probably still work for me as long as they play it right after skipping over the actual development of the relationship. It would also be fine if they didn't want to go for romantic entanglements at the end, but given that setting a possible happily-ever-after scenario thematically works best for the series (I'm assuming that's where it's going), the romantic element helps sell/ensure that for most folks, so it probably makes the show work the best for the most people, so I'm good with that.
And as for comments I've seen regarding lesbian couples in animation, while it's true that in Japanese animation there's a well-established history of that, I'm not familiar with it in western animation, and I think that what Korra and Avatar have done in this case and in general is pretty outstanding for their genre and medium.
I'm just gonna spare you more spoilers and leave response like this, til after you've seen the final.
Damn, it's just like you've already watched this ep. This is practically spot on.Smiley Face said:
Oh dear, well, this mess has attracted my attention so I might as well comment.
First off, the idea of having a lesbian couple/relationship in western animation or western media in general is a good step towards the improvement of popular culture and could lead to new narratives.
I however must amend my statement in this case because Korrasami kind of came out of nowhere and so this is more a matter of pandering to the overly loud shipping community.
Yes, they hang out together, Yes, they are friends and Yes, the framing of the two is pretty unambiguous. But compared to the amount of attention made on Bolin/Opal and Varrick/Zhu Li, the relation between Korra and Asami was extremely underdeveloped with very few episodes have scenes with the two even talking much less anything significant enough to entail a relationship.
Is it a step forward, Yes but its a very shaky step taken by a spider. Depending on how it looks, it's either restricted due to the FCC from show more explicit conversations or it was a last minute change made to appeal to the shippers who focus on relationships over the quality of the writing or if it makes scenes.
First off, the idea of having a lesbian couple/relationship in western animation or western media in general is a good step towards the improvement of popular culture and could lead to new narratives.
I however must amend my statement in this case because Korrasami kind of came out of nowhere and so this is more a matter of pandering to the overly loud shipping community.
Yes, they hang out together, Yes, they are friends and Yes, the framing of the two is pretty unambiguous. But compared to the amount of attention made on Bolin/Opal and Varrick/Zhu Li, the relation between Korra and Asami was extremely underdeveloped with very few episodes have scenes with the two even talking much less anything significant enough to entail a relationship.
Is it a step forward, Yes but its a very shaky step taken by a spider. Depending on how it looks, it's either restricted due to the FCC from show more explicit conversations or it was a last minute change made to appeal to the shippers who focus on relationships over the quality of the writing or if it makes scenes.
"You don't always need words to tell someone that you love them. Sometimes silence is the only thing you need."Izanagi009 said:
I feel that their relationship actually benefited from the lack of attention it got. In Seasons 3 and 4, you got to see their friendship grow stronger each time they appeared on screen together. And when the final three minutes came about, you had a sense that the two of them cared deeply for each other and that it was only natural for them to become a couple.
I think folks seem to be under the impression that the writers are saying that they were a couple all along. But it's really that at the end of season 4 they are just becoming couple. This trip to the Spirit World is pretty much going to be their first date. That is why it is so underdeveloped. It's just now starting up.