So MovieBob had some crap to say about that there Mass Effect 3 thingy...
- Thread starter MiloP
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That would only if ever make sense if we were all women and talking about pregnancy.Gnoekeos said:
We're gamers though and we're talking about games.
Escalation/slippery slope/analogues arguing is about as bottom of the barrel as you can get, if you don't actually have an opinion then go play in the corner.
The basic story premise is pretty simple in most games but games can go into so much more detail, with sub plots and side plots etc - in a Mass Effect movie, the genophage would be given like 20 minutes of actual time, most of it being action, perhaps 5 minutes exposition - in the game however it's given hours of time and exposition - that's the difference between games and films - games can go into so much more depth and detail, its's just that they require more combat and something to do - could you imagine a rom com game? Nah me neither.irishda said:
Games can push the boat and out and tell geninely compelling stories that wouldn't work in a movie - KoTOR2 for instance would completely fail as a movie but it's one of the best game stories ever made.
Games can go at a slow storytelling pace, telling us intricately detailed stories that movies and books would never be able to tell us.
To say that "He can't be taken seriously because he hasn't played the games" Is exactly the same thing as what I said just with a different subject matter. All I'm saying is you don't get to dismiss Bobs opinion just because he hasn't played the games.Darkcerb said:
Which would be true if he didn't then judge the "anti-ending" crowd without making any effort to understand there point of view.Gnoekeos said:
And while he's doing that expect people to ignore his point of view in return.
And besides he's judging the story of a completely interactive story in an interactive medium, and you don't think his opinion means less when he hasn't experienced it?
Even though I'm in the "disappointed by the ending" camp... I don't think they should change their ending... it's theirs and they have every right to it.... but they should expand upon it.. explain it, and have it make a bit more sense. I was proud to see BioWare end their franchise in a manner that essentially prevents direct sequels. I thought destroying the Mass Relays and killing off Shepard was a ballsy move , and I applaud them for it.... that's no lame Halo 3 ending right there. I just wish it answered more questions and provided more closure... that's what I'd like to see them address (I don't want to use the word fix).Tree man said:
I liked the journey the most, I thought the deaths of Mordin, Legion & the fall of Thessia to be the most moving parts of the game. I didn't want a bunch of happy endings personally (I would have disappointed if they didn't at least give me the option to kill off Shepard). Given the apocalyptic setting, I thought many meaningful deaths and failures were exactly what the franchise needed. Mass Effect needs tragedy and loss.
The big problem was that, with the games very depressing ending (and a lot of unanswered questions)... those deaths and failures felt less meaningful... and it was hard to feel a sense of victory in the wake of such loss.
Id have to rewatch the video to be completely certain but I believe he wasn't out to praise or condemn the game itself but rather explain why the over the top reactions are so inappropriate. I completely agree that if someone hasn't played the entire series then they can't have much to say about the details and whether or not is good or bad but what his (and my) issue is that no matter how much you like or dislike it that's the way the game ends, you can't expect them to change their story just to suit you.Darkcerb said:
I wasn't aware they changed then ending to Fallout 3 or rather I didn't really consider that changing the ending because the end of the game still happens the same way and then we continue onward with the story. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here or maybe that's what you've been asking for the whole time and I didn't realize it. At any rate that's all well and good, go get you some story extending DLC. the impression I got was that the goal was to back up a bit delete the ending as it happened and plug in new endings that are exactly what people want with no deviations. "that's just how things go" that was a crappy way to end the other post but I was on break at work and running out of time and editing a paragraph with a touch screen is a nightmare.Darkcerb said:
I think you've fallen into the same rut so many others have, I personally didn't see my shep walking away from 3 intact. You'll find quite a few thought the same, a happy ending for a flawless play through would be nice but an ending that isn't a plot hole ridden mess with next to no closure would be even better.Gnoekeos said:
What many don't remember is a flawless play through would get you out of the "suicide" mission in ME2 as if it were just another mission. But again a bittersweet ending showing all we've lost but all we've gained would have been just as or more satisfying I don't know if you've played it but the ending really is that bad, it's such a mess that I'm convinced of the rumors that most of the writing team were kept in the dark during it.
In this case you really need to have been a part of this world and all it's characters to feel how disappointing the ending is, not because it wasn't a star wars meddle ceremony but because it fly's in the face of all we've learnt of the characters and the world as we knew and shaped it.
Okay. I'll respond point by point, since obviously you won't understand any other way.endtherapture said:
EDIT1: He's not saying that interacting with a medium, while certainly more interesting for the player, is rather difficult on the writer. It's much easier to write a non-interactive medium, since you can do things like having the narrator provide exposition, have characters give their internal thoughts without some convoluted dream sequence, et al. More importantly, as this demonstrates, one of the benefits of completing a book or a movie and getting it to print (on film or paper) is that it's DONE. People may not like it, but nobody calls Stanley Kubrick or J.K. Rowling after it's done and say...could you patch in an ending where Dumbledore doesn't die?? Books and movies don't need tutorial levels. They don't have to try to cater to really stupid people if they don't want to. When games have tried this - such as Dark Souls/Demon Souls, generally fans don't like them.
If you'd like a direct comparison, go grab one of those awful R.A. Montgomery Choose Your Own Adventure novels.
EDIT2: Yeah, you are entitled. Wanted something different =/= entitled. DEMANDING IT == entitled. Attempting to use Child's Play == ENTITLED. Insulting the writers == ENTITLED. FTC Complaint == Beyond Thunderdome ENTITLED. Lawsuit Threats == Off The Scale ENTITLED. Calling someone a "dick" repeatedly because he disagrees with you == ENTITLED.
EDIT3: Bioware owes you nothing. You give them money, they give you game. End of transaction. They might want to do it on a appreciating the fan level, but they didn't give you a broken game. They didn't even give you a game you disliked entirely. They gave you a game that you played for somewhere between 3600 and 6000 (or more) minutes and you didn't like ten of them. More importantly, other people liked the ending. I like it. Not totally, but I definitely get the idea and I definitely like what they did. Even if I hated the ending, between single player and multiplayer, I've logged..170+ hours in ME3. At some point, your complaints go beyond the pale.
EDIT4: The "Retake Mass Effect" people are entitled (they tried to hide their entitlement through charity, which is even more ridiculous_. You're acting very entitled. You paid money. You got a game. They didn't cheat you. The game's not broken. You may not like it, but that's certainly not cause to demand they fix it. You can respond with complaints. You can ask for your money back. Some people did get their money back. That's it. The game's not broken. More importantly,
I think it's rather entitled to enjoy all this work - some of the best writers, voice actors, game designs, mocap artists, and animators in the industry worked on this game. There are points in this game that are just amazing. I've felt less for the death of real people then I did for the deaths of Mordin and Legion. Saving the Krogan and getting their responses of joy is tremendous. Hearing the bitterness in Garrus's voice as he stares at the burning embers of Palavan is amazing. There is quality in so many details of this game. The little details are amazing - I remember talking to the engineers in the ship and having them remember the power converters I fetched them in ME2. There's humor, there's terrible sadness, there's tragedy, there's some amazing gameplay from time to time. You got a LOT for your money.
EDIT5: You may not, but people in the industry do. Not every game is the best ever, but when they work on something like ME3 (or any other triple-A title), they want it to be their best work. Casey Hudson wanted this game to blow people's minds. Mac Walters - the same. Ray Muzyka - the same. They want their work to be realized, want people to love and appreciate it, and they're even willing to throw their integrity into the fire to make you guys happy. You don't deserve any of it, but they're probably going to do it anyway. You've treated their art like utter crap, and just because they want you to be happy, they're going to try and fix it for you. It says a lot about them, and just how rotten people like you are.
EDIT6: You're misquoting him. What he said was "[gamers say] they're entitled to patches and DLC not just to fix real problems, but to reshape the designer's original vision to more closely match our own. How the hell can we insist the broader culture take games seriously when we won't take them seriously?" One is proper (fixing a broken thing) and the other is entitlement (I don't like this! Mommy, get me something else!).
What's funny is that calling gamers entitled makes them get up in arms, but gamers can brutally insult Patricia Helfer with homophobic and sexist slurs and nobody bothers to look around and see how wrong that was.