so... Orson Scott Card... boycott why?

DudeistBelieve

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I just went ahead and watched MovieBob's review, and knowing nothing of the man he blasted as the kind of the dicks, well obviously I wanted to know more... TO WIKIPEDIA!!!


Yeah so.... I read the wiki on him and it basically accounts to that he's religious and doesn't agree with gay marriage. About the worst of it was that he was a board member on some lobbyist group for defending marriage or some shit like that... Which really makes me wonder if everyone supports what GLADD does in it's quest to "promote equality."

I mean GLADD bullied Kevin Smith over Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back according to Malcolm Ingram, extorted him out of some amount of money so they wouldn't boycott the film over it's gay jokes.

Anyway, I went to the wiki expecting it to be all "This fucker says we should round them all up and shove 'em into ovens!"

I mean is there like something more concrete than that or are we collectively as a community calling this guy an asshole because he holds a backwards political view? Someone drop a little science on me cause I'm not getting it, guy seems to share the same view on it as Sean Hannity... And Sean's like the Diet Coke of conservative views.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Most people reason he's got a producer credit in the movie, meaning a % of the price you pay for your ticket goes to him, meaning you're indirectly giving him money, and with that money (some people claim) he goes to fund/donate to groups that further his agenda. I don't mind people doing this, but it's just a bit random and pointless. You know Spielberg directed and was an executive producer in a movie where one of the lead actors was killed along with two illegally-hired children because of technical negligence? How many people do you see boycotting his movies? Come on, if you're gonna boycott movies on general principle, either you go all the way or don't go at all.
 

DJjaffacake

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Now, there is a myth that homosexuals are "born that way," and we are pounded with this idea so thoroughly that many people think that somebody, somewhere, must have proved it.

In fact what evidence there is suggests that if there is a genetic component to homosexuality, an entire range of environmental influences are also involved. While there is no scientific research whatsoever that indicates that there is no such thing as a borderline child who could go either way.

Those who claim that there is "no danger" and that homosexuals are born, not made, are simply stating their faith.
The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.
How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn. Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die.
The guy's a nutjob, who apparently thinks that denying human rights to gay people is a good reason for some sort of bizarre revolution of the married people.

Edit: Although I personally am not intrested enough in the film to bother boycotting it, I can see why people would.
 

Thaluikhain

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SaneAmongInsane said:
Anyway, I went to the wiki expecting it to be all "This fucker says we should round them all up and shove 'em into ovens!"
The rounding them all up part is true, also he wants to overthrow the US government for not doing so.

In my book, that's enough.
 

EternallyBored

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Jun 17, 2013
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Yeah, as others have said, this is a guy that advocates resisting any form of gay marriage, to the point of preferring to tear down the constitution of the United States, rather than allow it to not explicitly prevent gay marriage.

He's also been an advocate and donation source for a number of groups connected to anti gay marriage bills and movements in many states. Some of those groups are also supportive of the camps and therapies designed to "fix" homosexual people, that coincidentally never work and are based on the worst kind of pop psychology nonsense to support their methods.

Surely you can understand why some people would want to boycott his stories in an effort to hurt the source of money he throws behind these groups. Especially in the homosexual community, why would they not want to make people aware that they could essentially be spending money that goes towards a man that wants to try and destroy one of their fundamental goals.

That being said, going to see Ender's game doesn't make you some irredeemable homophobic monster either, it's a movie, and I doubt Card is going to become a billionaire from it and throw it all behind the anti gay marriage movement. Some people just don't like the idea of giving him any money when he openly admits to supporting groups that actively try to suppress homosexuality in America. That's all it is, I don't think anyone is trying to crucify the guy (or at least no ones tried to attack him yet), they are just boycotting the movie based on the books he wrote, it's a boycott, not the end of the world, gay people won't come to your home and beat you up if you want to go see the movie.
 

DudeistBelieve

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DJjaffacake said:
Now, there is a myth that homosexuals are "born that way," and we are pounded with this idea so thoroughly that many people think that somebody, somewhere, must have proved it.

In fact what evidence there is suggests that if there is a genetic component to homosexuality, an entire range of environmental influences are also involved. While there is no scientific research whatsoever that indicates that there is no such thing as a borderline child who could go either way.

Those who claim that there is "no danger" and that homosexuals are born, not made, are simply stating their faith.
The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.
How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn. Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die.
The guy's a nutjob, who apparently thinks that denying human rights to gay people is a good reason for some sort of bizarre revolution of the married people.

Edit: Although I personally am not intrested enough in the film to bother boycotting it, I can see why people would.
Just sounds like a lot of hot air to be honest. Even though that is kinda the whole point of being American.... I mean we are suppose to overthrow the government if it gets out of line but most people are lazy sheep and wouldn't bother even if it was putting people into ovens.

I'm looking for something concrete. Like Michael Vick, that football player that made the dogs fight like the pokemans. Fuck that guy, and fuck the NFL for keeping him employed. That's something people should rage over because that fucker actually harmed somebody.

This cat, however, just seems religious and that faith pretty much requires him to hate the gays and be ignorant. Which, ya know, is petty for him but... like were getting on this case over lobbying? LOBBYING?

Instead of, ya know, BEING PISSED OVER LOBBYING IN GENERAL?

Perhaps I'm just being jaded, I find it hard to raise ire over it.
 

DudeistBelieve

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EternallyBored said:
Yeah, as others have said, this is a guy that advocates resisting any form of gay marriage, to the point of preferring to tear down the constitution of the United States, rather than allow it to not explicitly prevent gay marriage.

He's also been an advocate and donation source for a number of groups connected to anti gay marriage bills and movements in many states. Some of those groups are also supportive of the camps and therapies designed to "fix" homosexual people, that coincidentally never work and are based on the worst kind of pop psychology nonsense to support their methods.

Surely you can understand why some people would want to boycott his stories in an effort to hurt the source of money he throws behind these groups. Especially in the homosexual community, why would they not want to make people aware that they could essentially be spending money that goes towards a man that wants to try and destroy one of their fundamental goals.

That being said, going to see Ender's game doesn't make you some irredeemable homophobic monster either, it's a movie, and I doubt Card is going to become a billionaire from it and throw it all behind the anti gay marriage movement. Some people just don't like the idea of giving him any money when he openly admits to supporting groups that actively try to suppress homosexuality in America. That's all it is, I don't think anyone is trying to crucify the guy (or at least no ones tried to attack him yet), they are just boycotting the movie based on the books he wrote, it's a boycott, not the end of the world, gay people won't come to your home and beat you up if you want to go see the movie.
Shit man, those Rainbow Armada's patrol my hood bro. They'll beat the shit out of ya and make ya bite the curb if you ain't lookin' fabulous yo.

Nah. I actually have little interest in seeing the flick, though being told the ending I actually think it's chillingly fantastic.

It's just... I've heard so much negative shit about the guy I expected him to be Hitler 2! Instead he's just a lobbyist. It's just kinda lame is all, especially when you know. Gay rights movement keeps building steam. they're at what? 13 states now? Hell Chris Christie wasn't even trying to block it, just wanted to bring it to a vote of the people and ultimately just gave up.
 

EternallyBored

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Jun 17, 2013
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SaneAmongInsane said:
EternallyBored said:
Yeah, as others have said, this is a guy that advocates resisting any form of gay marriage, to the point of preferring to tear down the constitution of the United States, rather than allow it to not explicitly prevent gay marriage.

He's also been an advocate and donation source for a number of groups connected to anti gay marriage bills and movements in many states. Some of those groups are also supportive of the camps and therapies designed to "fix" homosexual people, that coincidentally never work and are based on the worst kind of pop psychology nonsense to support their methods.

Surely you can understand why some people would want to boycott his stories in an effort to hurt the source of money he throws behind these groups. Especially in the homosexual community, why would they not want to make people aware that they could essentially be spending money that goes towards a man that wants to try and destroy one of their fundamental goals.

That being said, going to see Ender's game doesn't make you some irredeemable homophobic monster either, it's a movie, and I doubt Card is going to become a billionaire from it and throw it all behind the anti gay marriage movement. Some people just don't like the idea of giving him any money when he openly admits to supporting groups that actively try to suppress homosexuality in America. That's all it is, I don't think anyone is trying to crucify the guy (or at least no ones tried to attack him yet), they are just boycotting the movie based on the books he wrote, it's a boycott, not the end of the world, gay people won't come to your home and beat you up if you want to go see the movie.
Shit man, those Rainbow Armada's patrol my hood bro. They'll beat the shit out of ya and make ya bite the curb if you ain't lookin' fabulous yo.

Nah. I actually have little interest in seeing the flick, though being told the ending I actually think it's chillingly fantastic.

It's just... I've heard so much negative shit about the guy I expected him to be Hitler 2! Instead he's just a lobbyist. It's just kinda lame is all, especially when you know. Gay rights movement keeps building steam. they're at what? 13 states now? Hell Chris Christie wasn't even trying to block it, just wanted to bring it to a vote of the people and ultimately just gave up.
This is the internet, people get called Turbo Hitler just because they like different video games than someone else. This is the place where some people think Justin Beiber and Twilight are the downfall of Western Civilization as we know it, and somehow annoying fanboys are worse than all the actual violent hate groups that exist and kill people on a daily basis. I've seen the guy called crazy and a massive douchenozzle, but compared to all the other hyperbole on the internet, it just kind of fades into the background.

Where are you actually seeing all this hate, because outside of the crazy tumblr people that like to scream about anything they can get their hands on, the most hate I've seen directed at him was from LGBT advocates that basically went like this:

"So they are making an Ender's game movie. Did any of you guys read the book?"
"Nope, the author's a massive homophobic prick so I don't read any of his stuff."
"huh I didn't know that. You wanna see if they got Pacific Rim on Netflix?"
"Hell yeah, I do."
 

Ritualist

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Orson Scott Card is a piece of shit.
He recieved money for the rights to make this movie. Will he get money for the ticket I purchase? Inconsequential.
If enough people see it, he will get MORE money for MORE movie rights to make MORE movies out of his works.

My ticket purchase does not support his insane evil agendas, but purchasing that ticket DOES IN FACT support studios wanting to give money to him and him being able to further his agendas. If people keep buying Call of Duty, they will keep making Call of Duty. If giving money to Orson Scott Card was profitable, they will keep giving money to Orson Scott Card.

Ticket=/=directsupport, but purchasing ticket/dvd/vhs/betmax=willfulsupport
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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Seems I'm one of the few people who figure it's just a fucking movie, like any other movie that gets made from a book. Suddenly because it's Card, it has to be rife with subtext and apparently doom? Yeah right. Watch it or don't. That's all there is to it.
 

anthony87

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Because he doesn't like gay people. That's the gravest sin of all around these parts.
 

drummond13

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FalloutJack said:
Seems I'm one of the few people who figure it's just a fucking movie, like any other movie that gets made from a book. Suddenly because it's Card, it has to be rife with subtext and apparently doom? Yeah right. Watch it or don't. That's all there is to it.

Nobody is saying the movie in any way promotes his controversial agendas, either directly or metaphorically. People are just angry at Card for actively fighting against gay rights, and so feel that supporting the movie is, in a sense, financially supporting him. Which it is, if only marginally.

That being said, it IS just a movie, and hundreds of people besides Card worked on it. Hardly seems fair to me to punish all those people along with him just because he's the author. But if people are upset with him and want to boycott the movie as a result, hey, it's their choice. I despise the man's views, but I really enjoy his books and I'm looking forward to the movie. Go fig.
 

Saika Renegade

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I'd rather not have any portion of my money going to a man who goes merely beyond disliking homosexuals to disenfranchising them entirely; I suspect he would put every non-heteronormative person in the United States into a ghetto or camp if he could get away with it. For a man so obsessed with the notion that homosexuals have an agenda he's the one who's been putting substantially more money into clamoring for an actual governmental overthrow.

While I may not like his opinion, he's free to have that opinion as a person and a citizen. I don't agree with his -actions-, which have gone quite a ways out of the way to actually harm innocent people through what seems to me to be an obsessive, paranoid delusion (just look up information on his vile re-imagining of Hamlet, Hamlet's Father, if you think his comments that homosexuality can be caused by pedophiliac or incestuous rape is a one-off statement, the man actually bloody believes what he says). This is where the boycott comes into place, and why I think it has merit; let's not finance the crazy man's crazy plans, shall we?
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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May 15, 2010
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Johnny Novgorod said:
Most people reason he's got a producer credit in the movie, meaning a % of the price you pay for your ticket goes to him, meaning you're indirectly giving him money, and with that money (some people claim) he goes to fund/donate to groups that further his agenda. I don't mind people doing this, but it's just a bit random and pointless. You know Spielberg directed and was an executive producer in a movie where one of the lead actors was killed along with two illegally-hired children because of technical negligence? How many people do you see boycotting his movies? Come on, if you're gonna boycott movies on general principle, either you go all the way or don't go at all.
And also people still defend Roman Polanski despite the fact that he's a known pedophile who's wanted in the US for fleeing the country prior to his sentencing in 1977. One of the reasons I can't stand Whoopi Goldberg because of her stance that what he did wasn't "rape rape" (her words).
If anyone deserves a boycott of his movies, its Polanski. Orson Scott Card is just a windbag who happened to write a damn good scifi book and doesn't actually receive as far as I'm aware any royalties from the movie.
Sometimes I wonder if people back causes to look big but fail to really care about the actual cause...
 

Thaluikhain

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amaranth_dru said:
And also people still defend Roman Polanski despite the fact that he's a known pedophile who's wanted in the US for fleeing the country prior to his sentencing in 1977. One of the reasons I can't stand Whoopi Goldberg because of her stance that what he did wasn't "rape rape" (her words).
If anyone deserves a boycott of his movies, its Polanski. Orson Scott Card is just a windbag who happened to write a damn good scifi book and doesn't actually receive as far as I'm aware any royalties from the movie.
Sometimes I wonder if people back causes to look big but fail to really care about the actual cause...
You're allowed to not watch Polanski movies are well as stuff written by Card, you know.

And yes, he's not profiting directly from the movie, but its success or otherwise is going to reflect on him.
 

Olas

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Dec 24, 2011
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I don't understand it either OP. I think a person who creates a good work of art or entertainment should be rewarded for his work, regardless of his unrelated personal beliefs.

When buying food at the grocery store, do you research to see what food companies are run by homophobic CEOs? Do you decide what electronics to buy based on the political beliefs of their designers? After all, your purchasing decisions will end up contributing money to these people.

I'm going to guess no.

Why is it different with Card? Are we worried that his anti-gay agenda is somehow reflected in his science fiction story about battling aliens? Or is it simply because he's more visible to us than these other people?

Regardless I think we should have more than a 1 dimensional view of him. You can disagree with someone while still appreciating them for things they've contributed.
 

Varitel

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There's also been some criticism (since the mid 80s) about the way that the book seems to present morality. They felt it was supporting a normative ethical philosophy that values intent over action, and took it too far.

They felt that Ender got off too easy, and suffered almost no consequences for his actions. I don't know what book they read, but I don't think it was the same one I did. He committed sins for sure. Some of them I argue weren't even his sins, but others were his and his alone. Either way, I think it's implied by the ending that he spent a long time trying to make up for what he had done, trying to attone, so I don't see how it's a huge deal. Someone who studied philosophy and not engineering may have a different and more educated opinion than mine, I think.
 

Proto Taco

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SaneAmongInsane said:
I just went ahead and watched MovieBob's review, and knowing nothing of the man he blasted as the kind of the dicks, well obviously I wanted to know more... TO WIKIPEDIA!!!


Yeah so.... I read the wiki on him and it basically accounts to that he's religious and doesn't agree with gay marriage. About the worst of it was that he was a board member on some lobbyist group for defending marriage or some shit like that... Which really makes me wonder if everyone supports what GLADD does in it's quest to "promote equality."

I mean GLADD bullied Kevin Smith over Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back according to Malcolm Ingram, extorted him out of some amount of money so they wouldn't boycott the film over it's gay jokes.

Anyway, I went to the wiki expecting it to be all "This fucker says we should round them all up and shove 'em into ovens!"

I mean is there like something more concrete than that or are we collectively as a community calling this guy an asshole because he holds a backwards political view? Someone drop a little science on me cause I'm not getting it, guy seems to share the same view on it as Sean Hannity... And Sean's like the Diet Coke of conservative views.
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/07/sci_fi_icon_orson_scott_card_hates_fan_fiction_the_homosexual_agenda_partner/

Because it would appear you didn't bother to type it in and read it when Bob posted it in his video to explain his stance.

If you can still give OSC a pass after reading that, I truly have no argument sufficient for your apathy.

Simply put:

At best OSC is mentally ill.
At worst he's a delusional psychopath who's a danger to society.

Let's just say you weren't far off the mark with the Hitler comment.