so... Orson Scott Card... boycott why?

[zelda2fanboy]

I've personally decided to boycott this movie because the trailers looks stupid, the title sounds lame, Harrison Ford seems bored, movie tickets are expensive, and I'd rather watch something else with my free time. Also, video games... oh he doesn't care for homosexuals? Okay, then that, too. I've actually been boycotting the book for its name and cover for decades. Shadow Complex was pretty fun, though.

 

[Quadocky]

Given the rise of the internet I think its incredibly hard to separate the artist from the art. People like Orson or even that guy who created Earthworm Jim, as talented or successful as they are does not excuse them from acting like total shitheads. We deserve better.

But of course I cannot help but mention that hatred of homosexuals (I.E MALE homosexuals) stems from outright misogyny in every case I have seen.

 

[Tono Makt]

Seems I'm one of the few people who figure it's just a fucking movie, like any other movie that gets made from a book. Suddenly because it's Card, it has to be rife with subtext and apparently doom? Yeah right. Watch it or don't. That's all there is to it.

You haven't been paying attention to the conversation. Just to the crazies.

The crux of the boycott is that by going to Enders Game you are raising the profile of Orson Scott Card, a man who has been extremely active in the anti-homosexual movement in the USA. Not only by way of the word, but financially and by being a member of the board of the National Organization for Marriage. So it is not only that he doesn't liek teh gehyz, it's that he is actively trying to keep teh gehyz oppressed.

There are quite a few people who have a problem with this.

In most of our day to day life, we don't know whether the things we buy are supporting arseholes or not. We are ignorant (willfully ignorant in many, many cases), or we agree with the arseholes (which is fine; just because I think someone is an arsehole doesn't mean everyone should think they're an arsehole. Someone is going to agree with them), or we can't do anything about it (most computerized electronics are made with components that are mined in extremely unethical ways, are used as currency to support warlords and petty dictators, before being sent to southeast Asia where near slave labour turns them into our computers and the like. Don't like it? Don't buy a computer, a car, a cellphone, a coffeemaker, a television, a bunch of kids toys, etc...) or simply put we just don't care (Wal-Mart). It's rare that we have a case where the arsehole in question is so blatant and so obvious, and it makes it very easy to stand up to the arsehole in this situation.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah so.... I read the wiki on him and it basically accounts to that he's religious and doesn't agree with gay marriage. About the worst of it was that he was a board member on some lobbyist group for defending marriage or some shit like that...

And a financial backer. And has threatened to rise up against the government. And probably a few other things. Dude's put a lot of ash, time and effort into harming people.

Now, you can bring up GLAAD, but I really would like to see where they've pushed for legislation. I don't support what they allegedly did, but come on, dude. Talk about your freaking false equivalence.

"They bullied a filmmaker!"

And Card has not only bullied an entire group of people, but attempted to legislate it, too. I mean, that's totally the same thing, though.

It's interesting, though, that you took the same tack as Card, who has claimed boycotting him is every bit as bad as attempting to pass legislation harming a group of people he doesn't like.

I mean, seriously, it's fine if you don't care that he wants to outlaw people for being what they are, but when you bring up GLAAD, you're veering into apologetics.

I mean we are suppose to overthrow the government if it gets out of line but most people are lazy sheep and wouldn't bother even if it was putting people into ovens.

We're also supposed to provide equality for all citizens. I mean, this guy is against the Constitution, which kind of makes the whole "that's what we're supposed to do" thing seem bloody stupid, but hey. I'd also oppose people demanding violent revolution against fundamentalists in magic underwear, for the record, even if the LDS is a caustic organisation.

And you know what else is part of the whole 'Murrican thing? Self determination. If he wants to persecute people like me, I have every right to not want my money going to him. Not that I am doing that. To boycott him, I'd have to be interested in his works. I thought his books were a bit shit and have no interest in the movie. But if he can say "fuck you gays," we can say "fuck you back."

Because 'MURRICA!

But to recap a point I think needs to be made clearer:

Orson Scott Card is one of the shitstains on the head of the group that has made marriage illegal in several states.

Card was a driving force between prop 8 in California, as well as propositions in like two dozen other states to the same end. He, as one of the movers behind NOM, has pushed to outlaw a "lifestyle" of which he personally doesn't like.

Can't wait to see what horrible legislation GLAAD is behind.

 

[Something Amyss]

You haven't been paying attention to the conversation.

To be fair, listening to people is hard. It's easier to just go with whatever the slogans say.

I find it interesting how people always call for boykotts, persecution and removal from duty when someone has a mere opinion that goes against the leftwing mainstream

I like how you make it sound like it's one "wing" that does this.

You would think talking bad of the President was a worse crime than pedophilia, too, if you listened to the right-wing.

 

[Something Amyss]

When buying food at the grocery store, do you research to see what food companies are run by homophobic CEOs?

Card's an activist. Card's outspoken and vocal. He writes op-ed pieces, LTEs, and does major rounds. He's also on the head of a board.

It might be a little easier to notice a guy like that. You don't need to do much in the way of research.

Do you decide what electronics to buy based on the political beliefs of their designers?

People actually do this a lot. I guess you haven't noticed, but there are all sorts of boycotts.

I'm going to guess no.

And I'm going to ask why. I can only think you sided this way because it was convenient to your argument.

Why is it different with Card?

Well, that's a false premise, innit? It takes the base assumption that it is somehow different and asserts it.

 

[Storm Dragon]

Shit man, those Rainbow Armada's patrol my hood bro. They'll beat the shit out of ya and make ya bite the curb if you ain't lookin' fabulous yo.

I want to see a shirt with this written on it. Or some sort of comedy sketch based on it.

Actually, on second thought, either one of these would probably get the creator in trouble. So I would advise people to not do those things I just said. My point is that you said something that I found funny.

 

[EternallyBored]

I find it interesting how people always call for boykotts, persecution and removal from duty when someone has a mere opinion that goes against the leftwing mainstream (pro gay rights, pro-every-non-christian religion, pro gun control ect.) while people who have actually COMMITED crimes don't get nearly as much public hate. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen and Daniel Cohn-Bendit come to mind. Cohn Bendit even bragged about how he enjoyed his "sexual games" with toddlers and still gets one price after another ffs!

It seems like opposing gay marriage is somehow worse than raping children...

Yeah, except your completely wrong on just about everything you said, all of those people you listed have boycotts against them and their work, Polanski has about 3 times the amount of writing condemning his actions compared to stuff against Card, and that's just from a cursory Google search. I have heard far more child welfare and feminist groups rail against Polanski than I have ever seen gay rights groups come out against Orson. The only reason anyone gives a shit about Orson Scott Card is because the Ender's game movie is coming out.

You want to know what this particular boycott will accomplish? The same thing the Polanski scandal (and it was a scandal, maybe you aren't old enough to remember, but when the full extent of accusations came out against him it was in the news for months) accomplished, some people who care will boycott, the movie will come out, and then the vast majority of Americans will forget about it. You can try to twist the message all you want, but selective memory doesn't change the fact that a lot of people do care about the other crimes artists commit, but just like people will defend Polanski, notice how many people come out to defend Card and his works, just like the "liberals" you rail against with the other artists.

You want to rail about how Hollywood protects personalities like that? Go ahead, your going to find that many of your allies in that fight are "liberals" fed up with Hollywood's obsession with covering up and downplaying the crimes of those with enough influence. Social issues rarely follow strict political ideologies, there are plenty of "liberals" siding with Card, and there are just as many "Conservatives" making excuses for Polanski.

It's kind of ironic that you would make a post like this in a topic that started out by essentially asking, "What's the big deal?". This is the first time I've even seen a topic on him on this website that wasn't talking about the movie rather than him as an author.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

1: He's a dick.

2: He isn't dead yet.

I as a personal rule try not to give money to dicks so I decided to skip Ender's Game way before I heard about all the changes to the plot, which would have killed my interest in the movie even if Card was a new age hippie.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Given the rise of the internet I think its incredibly hard to separate the artist from the art. People like Orson or even that guy who created Earthworm Jim, as talented or successful as they are does not excuse them from acting like total shitheads. We deserve better.

But of course I cannot help but mention that hatred of homosexuals (I.E MALE homosexuals) stems from outright misogyny in every case I have seen.

I honestly have no problem with creators acting like shitheads (I still love Fez and really want Fez 2, despite Fish being a dick, for instance). What I, and many other people, have problems with is the creators actively going out of their way to oppress people, which Card does. I don't mind purchasing things made by Tennapel, despite his homophobia. I do mind purchasing things made by Card, because he will take some of the money I give to him and use it to try and oppress people, and I can't morally justify that.

 

[nightmare_gorilla]

i kind of agree his anti-gay stuff is kinda stupid but not outside the realm of your typical religious nutcase. the thing that freaks me out is that he is "padded room, straight jacket wearing" crazy. he rallied for years against people who write fanfiction of his work claiming that they "take food out of his families mouth." for doing it. I mean I think he even tried to get a law against it passed or tried to sue some people for writing fanfiction. except he writes tons of fan fiction. when people asked him about it he said it was ok for him to do it because he's just that good. I mean the guy has a fairly long rap sheet about truly loony bin level of insanity. he's one of these guys who cares too much about gay issues. because he's gay. it's that simple you know the preacher who rails against gay people for years and years and then you find out he's been paying male prostitutes to ram meth up his butt using their dicks. that's what this guy is. he's clearly gay and the only person who doesn't know it is him.

 

[Terramax]

Basically, it comes down to too many people out there being extremists.

I support same sex marriage, and I'm not religious, but just because the guy 'believes' same sex marriage is wrong, and is a Christian, in my eyes, is not a solid enough reason for anyone to boycott someone's, or to call them 'evil', along with all the other stuff Movie Bob called him.

I mean, if he's actually DONE several terrible things, that's a different story...

The only reason anyone gives a shit about Orson Scott Card is because the Ender's game movie is coming out.

Didn't people also boycott a video game because of his involvement a few years back? Unless that was another sci-fi writter?

 

[Ritualist]

Nobody is saying the movie in any way promotes his controversial agendas, either directly or metaphorically. People are just angry at Card for actively fighting against gay rights, and so feel that supporting the movie is, in a sense, financially supporting him. Which it is, if only marginally.

If the movie does well enough they will probably pay him more money to turn more of his books into movies. You cannot deny that. We're STILL making Friday the 13th movies.
It's not a marginal support to watch this movie. It's a huge support, even if your reasons for seeing it have nothing to do with supporting him.

That being said, it IS just a movie, and hundreds of people besides Card worked on it. Hardly seems fair to me to punish all those people along with him just because he's the author.

Every single person who worked on the movie is paid up front for their work. Regardless of whether or not the movie does well. Hollywood is a union job. Key grip? Union. Camera 1? Union job. Stunt coordinator? Union job. The fucking actors? UNION JOB. They all work on contracts, the people on screen get paid up front, the people behind the scenes usually get paid every two weeks usually with a possibility for a bonus afterwards. The only people who have to worry about recouping ANY form of losses, are the executives who put up the money for it to be made. That includes the shit suckers who paid Card for the rights.
I shouldn't feel bad for not supporting Card just because it MIGHT hurt the feelings of the people who worked on it. What about MY feelings? Since we're taking into account everyone's. How do you think I feel that Harrison Ford is starring in a movie that only exists because of a raging bigot? He's starring in a movie who's production is supporting the bigoted agenda. Harrison Ford lost all respect in my eyes for being in this. But hey, he's an actor. He does it for the craft. Well too bad.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Yeah so.... I read the wiki on him and it basically accounts to that he's religious and doesn't agree with gay marriage. About the worst of it was that he was a board member on some lobbyist group for defending marriage or some shit like that...

And a financial backer. And has threatened to rise up against the government. And probably a few other things. Dude's put a lot of ash, time and effort into harming people.

Now, you can bring up GLAAD, but I really would like to see where they've pushed for legislation. I don't support what they allegedly did, but come on, dude. Talk about your freaking false equivalence.

"They bullied a filmmaker!"

And Card has not only bullied an entire group of people, but attempted to legislate it, too. I mean, that's totally the same thing, though.

It's interesting, though, that you took the same tack as Card, who has claimed boycotting him is every bit as bad as attempting to pass legislation harming a group of people he doesn't like.

I mean, seriously, it's fine if you don't care that he wants to outlaw people for being what they are, but when you bring up GLAAD, you're veering into apologetics.

I mean we are suppose to overthrow the government if it gets out of line but most people are lazy sheep and wouldn't bother even if it was putting people into ovens.

We're also supposed to provide equality for all citizens. I mean, this guy is against the Constitution, which kind of makes the whole "that's what we're supposed to do" thing seem bloody stupid, but hey. I'd also oppose people demanding violent revolution against fundamentalists in magic underwear, for the record, even if the LDS is a caustic organisation.

And you know what else is part of the whole 'Murrican thing? Self determination. If he wants to persecute people like me, I have every right to not want my money going to him. Not that I am doing that. To boycott him, I'd have to be interested in his works. I thought his books were a bit shit and have no interest in the movie. But if he can say "fuck you gays," we can say "fuck you back."

Because 'MURRICA!

But to recap a point I think needs to be made clearer:

Orson Scott Card is one of the shitstains on the head of the group that has made marriage illegal in several states.

Card was a driving force between prop 8 in California, as well as propositions in like two dozen other states to the same end. He, as one of the movers behind NOM, has pushed to outlaw a "lifestyle" of which he personally doesn't like.

Can't wait to see what horrible legislation GLAAD is behind.

Ya know I throw the GLADD thing in there just because I don't happen to like GLADD. I take a potshot at them when I can. They also hate Bret Easton Ellis rather hypocritically. Same way I feel about feminist movement really. Ironic considering I don't disagree with the idea they represent, but well I'm kind of a dick like that.

But like, yeah I get it. Dude's an Anti-Gay lobbyist. Maybe this is the thing that has me holding the bridge of my nose between my thumb and pointerfinger fighting off the impending headache.

So the Anti-Gay lobbyist is bad just because he's anti-gay... not the fact he is in fact a lobbyist in general. You know lobbying, that thing that is essentially bribery by another name ensuring that our politicians vote according to special interests instead of the people? I mean, yeah I'm spliting hairs here. I suppose it is pretty bad to want to line the pockets of a person who will actively politically campaign against one's lifestyle.

However you bring up Prop 8, and no. I'm sorry buddy, Card may of brought that one to the dance but it only passed by Californian vote. That's on California not Card.

 

[EternallyBored]

Basically, it comes down to too many people out there being extremists.

I support same sex marriage, and I'm not religious, but just because the guy 'believes' same sex marriage is wrong, and is a Christian, in my eyes, is not a solid enough reason for anyone to boycott someone's, or to call them 'evil', along with all the other stuff Movie Bob called him.

I mean, if he's actually DONE several terrible things, that's a different story...

The only reason anyone gives a shit about Orson Scott Card is because the Ender's game movie is coming out.

Didn't people also boycott a video game because of his involvement a few years back? Unless that was another sci-fi writter?

Yeah it was a game called Shadow Complex, the story was about a sort of Tom Clancy esque U.S. civil war involving power suits and other sci-fi stuff; the game itself was a sort of old school castlevania style exploration system. The boycott itself was mumbled about, but most people dropped it when they realized Card wasn't involved in the game at all, he was writing a separate book series that took place in the same universe.

Now that I think about it, I never found out if he actually finished any of those books or not, the game (despite being only for Xbox arcade) seems to have completely overshadowed the planned books.

I would recommend it if you like those old-school Castlevania/Metroid style exploration games, it was pretty fun, story was silly, but fit the style of game they were going for. Something about power armor soldiers and a secret faction trying to blow up the U.S. government and launching missiles at it from like Colorado or something. You play a stranded hiker who stumbles on their secret evil underground base, and it just gets sillier from there.

EDIT: Correction, the secret conspiracy group is actually trying to launch a giant airship to attack San Francisco and you blow it up with nuclear missles they were also holding in that facility. Yeah, I know, it sounds like the set up to an episode of G.I. Joe.

 

[Kennetic]

I'm not going to see the movie because I loved the book so much that I don't want to see how Hollywood fucked it up. Because they always fuck up good things.

OT: I'm not in the LBGT movement on either side and honestly, OSC really doesn't have that much influence in the grand scheme so the boycott seems pretty pointless to me.

 

[Rutskarn]

I find it interesting how people always call for boykotts, persecution and removal from duty when someone has a mere opinion that goes against the leftwing mainstream (pro gay rights, pro-every-non-christian religion, pro gun control ect.) while people who have actually COMMITED crimes don't get nearly as much public hate. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen and Daniel Cohn-Bendit come to mind. Cohn Bendit even bragged about how he enjoyed his "sexual games" with toddlers and still gets one price after another ffs!

It seems like opposing gay marriage is somehow worse than raping children...

There's been a lot more Polanski hate than Scott Card hate in the mainstream media. I think the only reason you see more Scott Card rants on forums like The Escapist is because OSC produces media that falls within our nerd bailiwick. He comes up more often in conversation.

To put it another way: if Polanski was given the reins of a Star Wars movie or something, I'm willing to bet there'd be quite a lot of anti-Polanski threads around these parts.

 

[gsilver]

I view art and artists separately. If I boycotted the work of everyone who I thought was a jerk or simply disagreed with (or even sought out their works because of their politics) then that would be a pretty messed up mindset.

So, I played through Fez because it's a great game, no matter who Phil Fish is. I also won't see Ender's Game because I've read that the adaptation kind of sucks.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I do think Card is an ass, but I'm a little concerned about the fact that people are lining up to boycott a movie based on a book he wrote over 30 years ago, but I can't think of anyone demanding a boycott of:

-any movie Sean Penn is in (despite the fact that he hangs out with dictators who have actually murdered people)

-anything by Roman Polanski (even though he raped a teenage girl)

-anything with Alec Baldwin (who went on a homophobic twitter rant against a gay journalist)

-anything by Michael Moore (who openly supports Cuba, despite gay marriage being illegal there, not to mention the thousands of murdered citizens)

-anything by Bill Maher (who bashes Islam to ridiculous degrees)

-anything by Chris Brown (for obvious reasons)

 

[Thaluikhain]

I do think Card is an ass, but I'm a little concerned about the fact that people are lining up to boycott a movie based on a book he wrote over 30 years ago, but I can't think of anyone demanding a boycott of:

-anything by Roman Polanski (even though he raped a teenage girl)

-anything by Chris Brown (for obvious reasons)

Er...you can't?

Can't say about the others, but off the top of my head there were lots of people against those two.

Hell, I remember people saying, not just that they wouldn't watch movies Polanski made, but they wouldn't watch movies featuring people that were in movies Polanski made.