So, why do we need trigger warnings in video games...

[BarryMcCociner]

... when we have trigger warnings on the cover of every video game to hit store shelves in the past decade or two or three?

I was talking to this guy, extremist feminist, barely reasonable on a good day, you know how it goes, and he goes "Don't you think games should at least have some kind of trigger warning?"

And I'm like "But don't they already?"

I mean, take this popular release. The Witcher 3.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.aspx?Certificate=33771&Title=The+Witcher+3%3A+Wild+Hunt

So, The Witcher 3 has its own little trigger warning on the cover. Contrary to popular belief this is not part of the cover art, this is not something the developer elects to have on their game. By many distribution services this is a mandatory element to have on the cover of your game in order to be sold.

And what's in that trigger warning?

Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Alcohol

Now, it seems to me that if you might get triggered by any of the subjects listed above then this game may not be for you. You might want to pass this one up.

And you know what? That's perfectly fair. If you don't like nudity, strong language, blood and gore, you're more than welcome to spend your money somewhere else. If those are the consequences of a free society then I'll gladly contribute to it.

But then the guy goes "But that's not an adequate system."

I go "Why not?"

And long story short, we got distracted by The Force Awakens. I know, we were late to see it, he and I were waiting for the theaters to not be crowded, don't judge.

So why isn't the content warnings they place on the covers of video games, that is easily accessible on the internet, not an adequate method of warning people about the possibly offensive content of a video game?

I mean, in the link I provided, check out the rating summary. That gives plenty context as to whatever offensive or traumatic content may exist within the game without spoiling too much.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

... I'm thinking you'd need to go ask that guy. Although he may have just forgotten the ESRB existed. It seems like a lot of people do these days.

Then again, it does have the rating "Mature", which seems to be describing anything but...

 

[BloatedGuppy]

... when we have trigger warnings on the cover of every video game to hit store shelves in the past decade or two or three?

I was talking to this guy, extremist feminist, barely reasonable on a good day, you know how it goes, and he goes "Don't you think games should at least have some kind of trigger warning?"

And I'm like "But don't they already?"

Ah, the ever popular anecdote in which [EXTREMIST FRIEND] from [GROUP I AM LOOKING TO CRITICIZE] says [RIDICULOUS THING] and I reply with [RATIONAL AND ASSURED RESPONSE]. These second hand accounts of extremist feminists from their critics form literally 99.99% of all my encounters with them. But I digress.

In this hypothetical and ridiculous situation, yes, you are absolutely correct. There are already warnings on the covers of video games for those concerned about their content to peruse. I can appreciate the rare individual who is hyper sensitive to specific subjects that don't fall under those broad labels wanting additional context, but that is something they'd have to find for themselves via research, as you can only impart so much information on a warning label.

 

[Silvanus]

But then the guy goes "But that's not an adequate system."

I go "Why not?"

And long story short, we got distracted by The Force Awakens.

This was the best bit.

I think I'd need to know the end of the conversation to form an opinion. The system in place seems fine to me, but I'm willing to hear reasons why it might not be.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

We have the ESRB rating, which features an extensive catalogue of descriptors.

Spoiler

Alcohol Reference - Reference to and/or images of alcoholic beverages
Animated Blood - Discolored and/or unrealistic depictions of blood
Blood - Depictions of blood
Blood and Gore - Depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts
Cartoon Violence - Violent actions involving cartoon-like situations and characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted
Comic Mischief - Depictions or dialogue involving slapstick or suggestive humor
Crude Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving vulgar antics, including "bathroom" humor
Drug Reference - Reference to and/or images of illegal drugs
Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life
Intense Violence - Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death
Language - Mild to moderate use of profanity
Lyrics - Mild references to profanity, sexuality, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
Mature Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving "adult" humor, including sexual references
Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
Real Gambling - Player can gamble, including betting or wagering real cash or currency
Sexual Content - Non-explicit depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including partial nudity
Sexual Themes - References to sex or sexuality
Sexual Violence - Depictions of rape or other violent sexual acts
Simulated Gambling - Player can gamble without betting or wagering real cash or currency
Strong Language - Explicit and/or frequent use of profanity
Strong Lyrics - Explicit and/or frequent references to profanity, sex, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
Strong Sexual Content - Explicit and/or frequent depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity
Suggestive Themes - Mild provocative references or materials
Tobacco Reference - Reference to and/or images of tobacco products
Use of Alcohol - The consumption of alcoholic beverages
Use of Drugs - The consumption or use of illegal drugs
Use of Tobacco - The consumption of tobacco products
Violence - Scenes involving aggressive conflict. May contain bloodless dismemberment
Violent References - References to violent acts

Also doesn't sound as silly as "trigger warning", which reminds me of the kind of infantile lingo kids use when verbally sparring.

 

[DefunctTheory]

...I'm trying to figure out what exactly you expect us to say.

Your friend sounds like a living, breathing straw man. All you're giving us a wild declaration he made, without any sort of supporting statements because he 'got distracted,' which makes me wonder if he really even cares. Seems like something you'd pick back up later if you were interrupted.

So... where do we go from here? There is, indeed, a 'Trigger' warning on the box (Though the ESRB system predates that term, at least in popular usage). Where do we go from here, argument wise? Is anyone here willing to play Devil's Advocate? I'd do so, but I don't know where to start on this issue.

 

[Erttheking]

Well there already is a trigger warning on the box. So really I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say. It seems like one of those moments where we bring up an obvious outlying extremist. Are we just supposed to echo your opinion that that person is unreasonable?

 

[Kingjackl]

The term has a stigma attached to it (I know I always groan inwardly when I hear people bringing it up), but I think asking for the classifications to be expanded wouldn't go amiss. For example, I've twice seen examples of people asking for trigger warnings based on depictions of suicide or attempted suicide, which I believe aren't covered under classification ratings. It usually just goes under something like "mature themes" which is fairly vague.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

I have no source for this, but the 3 most common reasonable triggers I hear are suicide, rape, and violence. Only one of those is reasonably covered under the esrb ratings. These most common of triggers are not covered, thus it is not adequate.

The problem is the specific nature of potential triggers vs the general nature of a ratings system. "Mature Themes" and "Intense Violence" arguably cover suicide and rape but there is no way to know for sure, and basically every game rated "M" gets slapped with those two content warnings. Are people just supposed to avoid every M game ever on the off chance it has those?

But then again trigger warnings can end up being spoilers, so including "graphic depiction of rape" at the beginning of any piece of media that contains such cheapens and lessens the impact of the scene.

But I do like the idea of the ESRB taking ownership of the problem and dealing with it as it would be an extremely minor addition to their current operations.

I like the idea of the ESRB includes a checklist of triggers (maybe 5-20 of the most common? I really don't know enough about common triggers to say how many would be needed) in their rating process, and then they put up a site that people can visit to check against their relevant trigger. It would take all of 2 minutes to fill out for the game dev and would be a tiny addition to the rating process. A minimalist site would be easy to build and would not interfere with the people who do not need the warnings. And the warnings are easily accessible by the people who need them.

Seems like a satisfying solution all around.

Edit: missed the sexual violence rating, but still, looking how it is applied, not exactly a reliable trigger warning. It has only been used for two games ever.

 

[EternallyBored]

I have no source for this, but the 3 most common reasonable triggers I hear are suicide, rape, and violence. Only one of those is reasonably covered under the esrb ratings. These most common of triggers are not covered, thus it is not adequate.

The problem is the specific nature of potential triggers vs the general nature of a ratings system. "Mature Themes" and "Intense Violence" arguably cover suicide and rape but there is no way to know for sure, and basically every game rated "M" gets slapped with those two content warnings. Are people just supposed to avoid every M game ever on the off chance it has those?

But then again trigger warnings can end up being spoilers, so including "graphic depiction of rape" at the beginning of any piece of media that contains such cheapens and lessens the impact of the scene.

But I do like the idea of the ESRB taking ownership of the problem and dealing with it as it would be an extremely minor addition to their current operations.

I like the idea of the ESRB includes a checklist of triggers (maybe 5-20 of the most common? I really don't know enough about common triggers to say how many would be needed) in their rating process, and then they put up a site that people can visit to check against their relevant trigger. It would take all of 2 minutes to fill out for the game dev and would be a tiny addition to the rating process. A minimalist site would be easy to build and would not interfere with the people who do not need the warnings. And the warnings are easily accessible by the people who need them.

Seems like a satisfying solution all around.

Edit: missed the sexual violence rating, but still, looking how it is applied, not exactly a reliable trigger warning. It has only been used for two games ever.

You will be happy to know that the ESRB website already does this, they expand on why a game got the content warnings that it did, and will specify if there is rape or suicide within the game. The summaries can be a bit spoilery content wise, but they are good at avoiding blatant story spoilers.

The ESRB website also has an app so you can look up why they gave out specific content warnings right in the store.

For example, here is their content summary of Grand Theft Auto 5:

Spoiler: click me to see why the ESRB gave GTAV an M rating

" Rating Summary: In this open-world action game, players assume the role of three criminals whose storylines intersect within the fictional city of Los Santos. Players can switch between each character to follow his storyline, completing missions which often include criminal activities (e.g., stealing cars, executing heists, assassinating targets). Players use pistols, machine guns, sniper rifles, and explosives to kill various enemies (e.g., rival gang members); players also have the ability to shoot non-adversary civilians, though this may negatively affect players' progress as a penalty system triggers a broad police search. Blood-splatter effects occur frequently, and the game contains rare depictions of dismemberment. In one sequence, players are directed to use various instruments and means (e.g., pipe wrench, tooth removal, electrocution) to extract information from a character; the sequence is intense and prolonged, and it involves some player interaction (i.e., responding to on-screen prompts). The game includes depictions of sexual material/activity: implied fellatio and masturbation; various sex acts (sometimes from a close-up perspective) that the player's character procures from a prostitute?while no nudity is depicted in these sequences, various sexual moaning sounds can be heard. Nudity is present, however, primarily in two settings: a topless lap dance in a strip club and a location that includes male cult members with exposed genitalia in a non-sexual context. Within the game, some cutscenes, TV programs and radio ads contain instances of mature humor: myriad sex jokes; depictions of raw sewage and feces on a worker's body; caricatures of ethnic/racial groups. Some sequences within the larger game allow players to use drugs (e.g., smoking from a bong, lighting a marijuana joint, hallucinating from peyote); cocaine use is also depicted. Players' character can, at various times, consume alcohol and drive while under the influence. The words ?f**k,? ?c*nt,? and ?n**ger? can be heard in the dialogue."

I'm really not sure how you can create a system more comprehensive than the one already it place, unless your trigger is something really nonstandard, like fireworks sometimes are for PTSD soldiers, the ESRB has you covered in pretty much every conceivable fashion.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

I have no source for this, but the 3 most common reasonable triggers I hear are suicide, rape, and violence. Only one of those is reasonably covered under the esrb ratings. These most common of triggers are not covered, thus it is not adequate.

The problem is the specific nature of potential triggers vs the general nature of a ratings system. "Mature Themes" and "Intense Violence" arguably cover suicide and rape but there is no way to know for sure, and basically every game rated "M" gets slapped with those two content warnings. Are people just supposed to avoid every M game ever on the off chance it has those?

But then again trigger warnings can end up being spoilers, so including "graphic depiction of rape" at the beginning of any piece of media that contains such cheapens and lessens the impact of the scene.

But I do like the idea of the ESRB taking ownership of the problem and dealing with it as it would be an extremely minor addition to their current operations.

I like the idea of the ESRB includes a checklist of triggers (maybe 5-20 of the most common? I really don't know enough about common triggers to say how many would be needed) in their rating process, and then they put up a site that people can visit to check against their relevant trigger. It would take all of 2 minutes to fill out for the game dev and would be a tiny addition to the rating process. A minimalist site would be easy to build and would not interfere with the people who do not need the warnings. And the warnings are easily accessible by the people who need them.

Seems like a satisfying solution all around.

Edit: missed the sexual violence rating, but still, looking how it is applied, not exactly a reliable trigger warning. It has only been used for two games ever.

You will be happy to know that the ESRB website already does this, they expand on why a game got the content warnings that it did, and will specify if there is rape or suicide within the game. The summaries can be a bit spoilery content wise, but they are good at avoiding blatant story spoilers.

The ESRB website also has an app so you can look up why they gave out specific content warnings right in the store.

For example, here is their content summary of Grand Theft Auto 5:

Spoiler: click me to see why the ESRB gave GTAV an M rating

" Rating Summary: In this open-world action game, players assume the role of three criminals whose storylines intersect within the fictional city of Los Santos. Players can switch between each character to follow his storyline, completing missions which often include criminal activities (e.g., stealing cars, executing heists, assassinating targets). Players use pistols, machine guns, sniper rifles, and explosives to kill various enemies (e.g., rival gang members); players also have the ability to shoot non-adversary civilians, though this may negatively affect players' progress as a penalty system triggers a broad police search. Blood-splatter effects occur frequently, and the game contains rare depictions of dismemberment. In one sequence, players are directed to use various instruments and means (e.g., pipe wrench, tooth removal, electrocution) to extract information from a character; the sequence is intense and prolonged, and it involves some player interaction (i.e., responding to on-screen prompts). The game includes depictions of sexual material/activity: implied fellatio and masturbation; various sex acts (sometimes from a close-up perspective) that the player's character procures from a prostitute?while no nudity is depicted in these sequences, various sexual moaning sounds can be heard. Nudity is present, however, primarily in two settings: a topless lap dance in a strip club and a location that includes male cult members with exposed genitalia in a non-sexual context. Within the game, some cutscenes, TV programs and radio ads contain instances of mature humor: myriad sex jokes; depictions of raw sewage and feces on a worker's body; caricatures of ethnic/racial groups. Some sequences within the larger game allow players to use drugs (e.g., smoking from a bong, lighting a marijuana joint, hallucinating from peyote); cocaine use is also depicted. Players' character can, at various times, consume alcohol and drive while under the influence. The words ?f**k,? ?c*nt,? and ?n**ger? can be heard in the dialogue."

I'm really not sure how you can create a system more comprehensive than the one already it place, unless your trigger is something really nonstandard, like fireworks sometimes are for PTSD soldiers, the ESRB has you covered in pretty much every conceivable fashion.

Well that is pretty darn good. Like I said, I am not exactly an expert on this trigger stuff, I was just attempting to answer why the esrb rating on the box isn't adequate on it's own.

Also, I was more thinking a checklist? Because as you say that description is a bit spoilery, and it would be a minimal effort to include as they are already collecting the data.

But all in all, an very good system IMO.

 

[Risingblade]

You left out the most important piece of that conversation.

 

[Vigormortis]

Why is this an issue for gaming at large? Would 'trigger warnings' not apply only to first person shooters with finicky gunplay mechanics?

 

[Sozora]

Why is this an issue for gaming at large? Would 'trigger warnings' not apply only to first person shooters with finicky gunplay mechanics?

Man, I've seen people demand trigger warnings for sliced up promigranite. Don't underestimate the fragile snowflakes.

 

[Sozora]

Why is this an issue for gaming at large? Would 'trigger warnings' not apply only to first person shooters with finicky gunplay mechanics?

Man, I've seen people demand trigger warnings for sliced up promigranite. Don't underestimate the fragile snowflakes.

 

[Sozora]

Why is this an issue for gaming at large? Would 'trigger warnings' not apply only to first person shooters with finicky gunplay mechanics?

Man, I've seen people demand trigger warnings for sliced up promigranite. Don't underestimate the fragile snowflakes.

I don't believe you (not in the least because it's readily apparent you're never seen the word 'Pomegranate' in written form), maybe you can show a link to those demands? Making things up to support your extreme position isn't convincing, it makes people take you less than seriously though.

Ask and receive. http://ohnofixit.tumblr.com/post/104606702444/even-if-you-say-its-fruit-idm-it-looks-like-gore

TRIGGER WARNING! The post is continuing an argument.

 

[Raven_Operative]

EDIT: Nevermind, someone beat me to the punch