Something about Big Oil...

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Saskwach

Saskwach

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The_Logician19 said:
Gigantor said:
I was wondering the other day: do you think there will come a point where the government will just say: "We need to invade Saudi-Arabia. We're not going to lie to you: they don't have any WMD's; they aren't harbouring terrorists. We just need their oil, and we can't afford to buy it from them. If you don't want to pay £100 to full up your car, we need an oil war."
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If I belived that was going to happen, then I would actively be taking steps to stop it. As it is, I don't belive that the majority of people would let that happen. If they told you to go to war so someone else doesn't have to pay (what is it) $167 for gas, you'd tell them to f*** off, wouldn't you? I would.

The difference is, when I was done with that, I'd politely ask everyone else to tell them to f*** off. And they'd probobly listen to me, becasuse I'm only suggesting what they've been thinking about for the past month. And then all hell would break loose.

Apologies for suggesting avoididing a draft. There, I came right out and said it. If they tell you to go across the world and kill innocent people for oil, beat the crap out of the people who came to get you and hide. And find other people like you. Call it civil disobedience.
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The thing about oil is that it underpins the price of everything. It's liquid energy- the cheapest form we can lay our hands on- and everything that makes our nice little First World economy go round. When oil really starts running out (peak oil) then one of our smallest problems will be that we need to ptake public transportation.
Oil helps us create and transport the massive quantities of food that would seem fantasy to a pre-Industrial economy. Oil is part of those lovely plastics that I defy you to not find in abundance in your room right now. Oil transports everything.
I'm not trying to talk down to you, Logician, and I'm sure you know all of this. I'm just underlining that if the US occupies the Saudi oil fields when push comes to shove it won't be because people want cheap oil at the pump, it'll be to cushion a depression that probably makes the Great one look like a few businesses shutting down. If you lack any sense of self interest- a true altruist- I'll applaud your moral opposition to the war; but I don't expect it and I won't blame anyone who doesn't feel the same.
 
tthor

tthor

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I hate big oil companies, they are destroying America!
not only that, but the big oil companys EVEN control the hydrogen fuel business. they are making sure that the way used to produce hydrogen is just as oil consuming as gas, resulting in there being very little difference in hydrogen fuel vs gasoline in usage of oil and emissions. they are even buying up any and all companys that try researching ways of producing hydrogen so that THEY will stay in control. hydrogen could save this country's economy, but the oil companys are willingly screwing over america just so they can get even richer!
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/05/ma_375_01.html [Hydrogen's Dirty Secret]
 
K

Khedive Rex

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Energy independance would be easy if the American government knew what it was doing. First you put a 20% tarrif on imported oil. Second, you offer low corporate tax rebates to companies for exploiting American oil reserves like the Bakken Formation. Finally, you offer insentives to switch to natural gas as a main source of energy.

In the span of a month you've made all domestically produced oil competetive with imported oil no matter how much refinement it requires. You also move the American energy market toward a resource you actually have in abundace (The Barnett Shale Formation under Fort Worth, Texas alone contains 27 trillion barrels of natural gas according to some estimates. Enough to supply all currently gas-heated homes in the U.S. for more than five years.) and which pollutes less at the same time.

For one quarter, two at most, energy prices would fluctuate pretty heavly. After that, energy prices would decrease rapidly and they'd be stable for years to come. And the benefts of this would hit every market that was mentioned in the seeding post of this thread.

Big Energy being a powerful corporation and influence on the economy isn't really something you can avoid as a country. It's when they begin to run that company into the ground that the government has to step in and fix things. Sadly, that's something this administration has been unwilling to do. Maybe we'll have more luck next year.
 
Gigantor

Gigantor

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shatnershaman said:
tthor said:
...why?
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I'm using a hyperbole to say hyperbole are bad. Fine its ironic at least
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Hoisted by your own petard. Nice. The problem here isn't that "I hate big oil companies, they are destroying America!" is hyperbolic, but that it's a gross simplification of a massively complex situation. Some of the posts here have mentioned that Big Oil Companies are America, at least the America you know. There are interdependencies going on here that defy straightforward categorisation.
 
tthor

tthor

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Gigantor said:
shatnershaman said:
tthor said:
...why?
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I'm using a hyperbole to say hyperbole are bad. Fine its ironic at least
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Hoisted by your own petard. Nice. The problem here isn't that "I hate big oil companies, they are destroying America!" is hyperbolic, but that it's a gross simplification of a massively complex situation. Some of the posts here have mentioned that Big Oil Companies are America, at least the America you know. There are interdependencies going on here that defy straightforward categorisation.
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errr....wha?
 
Isaac Dodgson

Isaac Dodgson

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May 11, 2008
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forgive me for being rather droll... but you named your computer Jerry?

That aside. I can't help but be aggravated at "Big Oil" what with an old car that eats gas like... well the aforementioned starving people would with a bowl of rice. But, and i'm the first to admit this, I'm not that politically knowledgeable. I know we're getting screwed somewhere in the system, but by whom, why and how is all lost to me, and being lazy, or preoccupied (or American really) with other things, I just don't put the time aside to do any research. Partly because there isn't too much I can do aside from shout and scream with the rest of them, and partly because if I knew the truth behind it all, I'm pretty sure i'd just be that much more of a miserably cynical person.
 
stompy

stompy

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The_Logician19 said:
My mind instantly reverted back to my history lesson about The Great Depression; it was a circle. Perhaps Oil is a circle too. And this troubles me, becasue if it is, then there is going to be war.
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Funny enough, you've got a point there. Oil does underpn the world we live in; it provides us not only with transportation, but food, shelter, as well as luxury items. If w oil prices go sky high, then it'll definitely be hard for working families, and we might see something like the Great Depression again. If we actually lose all our oil, then we've fucked. No way 'round it.
 
tthor

tthor

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stompy said:
The_Logician19 said:
My mind instantly reverted back to my history lesson about The Great Depression; it was a circle. Perhaps Oil is a circle too. And this troubles me, becasue if it is, then there is going to be war.
Click to expand...
Funny enough, you've got a point there. Oil does underpn the world we live in; it provides us not only with transportation, but food, shelter, as well as luxury items. If w oil prices go sky high, then it'll definitely be hard for working families, and we might see something like the Great Depression again. If we actually lose all our oil, then we've fucked. No way 'round it.
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it is predicted that nearly all natural resources like oil will be gone in about 100 years, that is why developing new fuel sources like hydrogen fuel cells is so incredibly important
 
H

H0ncho

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I wanna say two things:
First, anyone whining about the price of oil does no longer have any right to ***** about climate change. If we were to go away from oil, it would be much more expensive than it is today (or else we would be using that other alternative).
Second, the "Big Oil" companies controls 7-13 % of the worlds oil resources - although it cannot really be called control as they are simply lending it from various government. Their political power is really limited.
 
Saskwach

Saskwach

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tthor said:
stompy said:
The_Logician19 said:
My mind instantly reverted back to my history lesson about The Great Depression; it was a circle. Perhaps Oil is a circle too. And this troubles me, becasue if it is, then there is going to be war.
Click to expand...
Funny enough, you've got a point there. Oil does underpn the world we live in; it provides us not only with transportation, but food, shelter, as well as luxury items. If w oil prices go sky high, then it'll definitely be hard for working families, and we might see something like the Great Depression again. If we actually lose all our oil, then we've fucked. No way 'round it.
Click to expand...
it is predicted that nearly all natural resources like oil will be gone in about 100 years, that is why developing new fuel sources like hydrogen fuel cells is so incredibly important
Click to expand...
Hydrogen fuel cells are not energy sources; they are energy storage sources. You still need the energy to come from somewhere.
Having said that it's true that we need to find a new source of cheap, renewable and mass-producable energy in the next few decades or humanity is doomed to late 19th century living for the rest of its time. Something like this is what I'm hoping for:
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=biofuels&id=19128&a=]
 
Rolling Thunder

Rolling Thunder

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Yes, hydrogen technology is very intersting. It offers the single most efficent fuel source per kilo than any other material- and it's extraction is relatively cheap too.

the problem with oil is that it's totally inelastic. You could charge US$200 a barrel and people would still buy it by the supertanker. So the oil companies set the price, and nearly noone argues.
 
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