MrHappy255 said:
I agree with you in that if everyone was on an even playing field that capitalism is a good thing as you have pointed out. What I disagree with is that it is not often individuals looking out for the better good of all but looking out for the good of the individual or corporation. As we all know corporations are consindered single entities by both US and Canadian governments.
If it benefits people all the better, if it does not but still makes money so what. Capitalism is not to benefit the majority but to make an incentive for everyone to have a chance to better themselves.
What is disagreeable with your statement is that when their are monopolies or groupings so similar as to be the same ie oil conglomerates well it does not matter what anyone thinks because we feel what they are selling is a necessity and so must purchase it no matter what happens or what they do.
really oil companies could go into a country and wipe out a large portion of the population and say whatever they want as long as yuppies and preppies can drive their escalades and hummers. That to me is in direct oposition of what capitalism should be but it does follow the guidelines of being capitalist.
Look we are becoming like the romans fat and lazy because things have become easy and when a problem arises instead of looking at other options everyone just wants to whine and cry. Oh, and we all know what happened to the roman empire now don't we.
Hey Werepossum thanks for responding I am having quite an enjoyable if somewhat disjointed discussion with you. This is why I love the Escapist, not everyone is a flaming annoyance and people truly bring intelligent points to the forum so again, Thanks. Oh and you to Saskwach (good point btw).
Corporations (or capitalist individuals) never look out for the good of all as a mission statement. Rather, they look out for the good of all because it's good business. By providing goods or services people want and/or need at prices they are willing to pay, corporations or individuals make profits. By competing with other corporations or individuals offering the same goods or services, costs of production are kept low because the consumer can pick and choose from which corporations or individual they purchase. That is why monopolies must always be regulated and why near-monopolies must be carefully watched less a few people collude to set prices.
This same dynamic describes both oil production and oil products sales in most countries. The only two caveats I would accept are supply versus demand and the great importance of oil in all modern civilizations. For the former, we are at a position where demand is exceeding supply. This is largely due to China, India, and other poor countries developing, but is also due to the USA (and other countries to a lesser degree) driving larger vehicles and building larger (and only marginally efficient) homes and buildings. Remember, most oil is not used for gasoline, and almost everyone wants a lifestyle similar to the USA in wealth and mobility (if in nothing else.) This relative scarcity in supply is in part artificial and in part natural. It's artificial because the USA, Canada, and some other nations artificially limit oil production for environmental concerns, and most of the oil producing nations aren't particularly keen to increase production when high oil prices give them as much or more profit and make their oil last longer. But it's also natural because most of the easily reached oil is gone. Not many more people are going to get an oil gusher whilst drilling for water; the remaining oil reserves need some effort to bring out.
The second point that makes oil different is the cost of shifting oil demand. If food prices go up, people can buy less or cheaper food and usually only food itself is affected, the exception being very poor people already buying the least and cheapest food capable of sustaining their lifestyles or even their lives. If cell phones go up you can choose to not on a cell phone or cut back on amenities such as call forwarding, texting, or Internet and email, or even minutes. Cutting back on oil consumption by reducing driving affects a wide portion of your lifestyle (taking the kids to baseball, running to the mall, visiting family and friends, not riding public transportation.) Paying more for oil leaves you less money for other things, while cutting back on oil consumption by switching to an automobile with reduced consumption costs money, which leaves you less money for other things. Thus oil is both the foundation and a major Achilles heel of modern civilizations. This makes oil subtly different from other commodities because it has much more power to disrupt societies. (For poorer countries food serves the same function.)
Thus I agree that a case can be made for the regulation of oil production, refining, and distribution. The problem with that is that government is always much less efficient than the free market in regulating anything. If you want something to be either very expensive or very scarce, give it to the government to regulate.
I think you and Saskwach and I agree on one fundamental thing - there is an upside to these skyrocketing oil prices. Oil is not only useful for fuel, it's also very useful for manufacturing plastics. Thus we really want to get off oil as a primary fuel while there are still relatively large and accessible reserves of oil for those plastics not yet well suited to alternate polymers. Although oil prices are painful now, they should act as a push toward alternate energy sources
before we hit peak oil, thereby substituting a period of pain for a potential societal catastrophe. And since there is no single replacement for oil on the near horizon, if we can work through this we should be in a stronger position, no longer so Dependant on a single source of energy.
Incidental, if the USA (which uses about a fifth of all oil production if I remember correctly) had the same proportional automobile mixture as Europe, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Speculation is driving up oil prices because speculators (and oil producers) know all the oil they produce will be sold in a timely manner; that only works when supply is at or slightly below demand.
. Finally we do see eye to eye. This is what most people do not realize. Fossil fuels are used for the manufacturing and production of a ton of things. Wonder why toy prices are climbing? (Because they are made of plastic). I wonder if we will ever go back to old steel and die cast toys and glass bottles when oil prices truly do surge?