Sonic Colors Not Meant For "Core" Audience

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Translation: This game sucks and we know that it sucks, so we're already pulling the "you aren't the target audience" card before you have a chance to see how much this game sucks for yourselves.

Come on, just look at this quote: "With Sonic Colors we have aimed to make a game that everyone can control and have fun in. So, it's not really a game for the core gamers."
It's a game that everyone can have fun in, but it's not for the core gamers, which are a part of everyone. Well, listen up man. Either your game is mean to be fun for everyone or fun for kids. You can't have it both ways. Just admit you made another bad game.
 

geldonyetich

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Aug 2, 2006
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droppingpenny said:
geldonyetich said:
Now you've got me curious as to the specifics as to why it's such a dumb explaination.
It is easy: Nobody really knows what a casual or a core gamer is, that's why. This is why it is a dumb explanation, cause you are just parrotting buzzwords said by analysts, who desperetaly tried to make up a reason for Wii's success. I have never seen such things as a "hardcore" or "casual" gamer before this generation, so what's the point of dividing the gamers now, except helping the gaming snobs who call themselves "hardcore" gamers because they played MW2 once to feel better and buy more "hardcore" games (read: same game over and obver again).
You know, I would be the first tell you that a lot of logic is hung up on labels, and I'd even agree with you that if you develop a game for a "hardcore" or "casual" then you are developing a game for imaginary people in your head as opposed to real people.

However, that said, I feel relatively confident I can identify that what Sega is describing as a "Core" gamer is that they are referring to the type of gamers that make up the core user base of their system, that it's not too hard to figure out what it takes to be a core user is someone who has higher standards thanks to experience.
 

droppingpenny

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Feb 27, 2010
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geldonyetich said:
You know, I would be the first tell you that a lot of logic is hung up on labels, and I'd even agree with you that if you develop a game for a "hardcore" or "casual" then you are developing a game for imaginary people in your head as opposed to real people.

However, that said, I feel relatively confident I can identify that what Sega is describing as a "Core" gamer is that they are referring to the type of gamers that make up the core user base of their system, that it's not too hard to figure out what it takes to be a core user is someone who has higher standards thanks to experience.
I would agree with you if someone actually told me what a "core" and "casual" user is, since I don't know it, I have a hard time comprehending this article at all. I mean you assume that a "core" user has higher standards, but in case of Sega it would be the same guy who complains about Sonic's eyecolor and leg length, because I doubt they are talking about the user, that still waits for Shenmue 3 to be made.
 

Kialee

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Aug 1, 2010
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Wait, what? I played games like Contra when I was barely old enough to know my head from my ass.
What's all this "easy" nonsense being tossed in the kid market?
 

geldonyetich

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Aug 2, 2006
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droppingpenny said:
geldonyetich said:
You know, I would be the first tell you that a lot of logic is hung up on labels, and I'd even agree with you that if you develop a game for a "hardcore" or "casual" then you are developing a game for imaginary people in your head as opposed to real people.

However, that said, I feel relatively confident I can identify that what Sega is describing as a "Core" gamer is that they are referring to the type of gamers that make up the core user base of their system, that it's not too hard to figure out what it takes to be a core user is someone who has higher standards thanks to experience.
I would agree with you if someone actually told me what a "core" and "casual" user is, since I don't know it, I have a hard time comprehending this article at all.
Well, shoot, aren't I someone [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.225729.7690183]? However, you told me that that was the stupidest thing you ever read, so I guess that's not going to work.
I mean you assume that a "core" user has higher standards, but in case of Sega it would be the same guy who complains about Sonic's eyecolor and leg length, because I doubt they are talking about the user, that still waits for Shenmue 3 to be made.
I'd be surprised if that's what they were referring to. I think Sega looks at it in terms of over-generalizations of the audience for the specific platform(s) that their games are being released on, rather than users with specific complaints.
 

squid5580

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Feb 20, 2008
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Therumancer said:
Gruchul said:
Therumancer said:
It's a matter of extent. Most of the stuff about Mario or Pokemon is done as a joke to be a joke because "it's sooo wrong" or whatever. On the other hand there is an entire subculture dedicated to anthromorphic sexuality and people dressing up like animals in fursuits and such, people can do that as a lifestyle choice/kink if it's their thing, but it does mean that you see a lot more porn, and "serious" porn at that, about Sonic (and other anthromorphic characters).

Just an opinion, like many things I don't expect everyone to agree with me or go "OMG Theru, how insightful, I agree completly and unconditionally.... please become my personal life-Guru". Good thing too. I don't have the right hair to be a Guru
Frankly, you're wrong about this. There is a lot of serious pokemon porn (actually more than the Sonic stuff) and a fair amount of Mario stuff out there. I don't know why you think it's not serious. For the most part, it is (assuming by serious you mean designed to provoke a sexual response).
I'm trying to be fairly diplomatic, but what I'm point at specifically is the furry subculture. You do not have people dressing up as Pokemon or Mario characters and having sex as a lifestyle choice. It might happen as some isolated kink, but it's on a lower level.

I'm relatively tolerant when it comes to furries compared to many, but I think it's their existance and the way they have embraced Sonic that makes all the differance.

I do NOT think that children seeing this will be converted into becoming furries or that it's some insidious plan or anything. But I do think there is more serious porn of this type than for other similar things, and the way it links into a lifestyle is going to make it more disturbing for children who run into it. The guy doing pokemon porn, or mario porn, or whatever is generally not going to have a 20 page rant on his site explaining why this is right and natural, making it clear he lives a lifestyle about it, etc...
And why is a child on that site in the first place? Sure some people have some fetishes but that has no bearing on the product. It is a sub cultuure for a reason. Next you will be saying kids should never wear anything leather because of the S&M scene. It isn't Bugfs or Sonic's or any other animated characters fault people get off on this. Most of us just ignore it because it has no bearing on our lives whatsoever. Since afterall it is none of our business.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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squid5580 said:
Therumancer said:
Gruchul said:
Therumancer said:
It's a matter of extent. Most of the stuff about Mario or Pokemon is done as a joke to be a joke because "it's sooo wrong" or whatever. On the other hand there is an entire subculture dedicated to anthromorphic sexuality and people dressing up like animals in fursuits and such, people can do that as a lifestyle choice/kink if it's their thing, but it does mean that you see a lot more porn, and "serious" porn at that, about Sonic (and other anthromorphic characters).

Just an opinion, like many things I don't expect everyone to agree with me or go "OMG Theru, how insightful, I agree completly and unconditionally.... please become my personal life-Guru". Good thing too. I don't have the right hair to be a Guru
Frankly, you're wrong about this. There is a lot of serious pokemon porn (actually more than the Sonic stuff) and a fair amount of Mario stuff out there. I don't know why you think it's not serious. For the most part, it is (assuming by serious you mean designed to provoke a sexual response).
I'm trying to be fairly diplomatic, but what I'm point at specifically is the furry subculture. You do not have people dressing up as Pokemon or Mario characters and having sex as a lifestyle choice. It might happen as some isolated kink, but it's on a lower level.

I'm relatively tolerant when it comes to furries compared to many, but I think it's their existance and the way they have embraced Sonic that makes all the differance.

I do NOT think that children seeing this will be converted into becoming furries or that it's some insidious plan or anything. But I do think there is more serious porn of this type than for other similar things, and the way it links into a lifestyle is going to make it more disturbing for children who run into it. The guy doing pokemon porn, or mario porn, or whatever is generally not going to have a 20 page rant on his site explaining why this is right and natural, making it clear he lives a lifestyle about it, etc...
And why is a child on that site in the first place? Sure some people have some fetishes but that has no bearing on the product. It is a sub cultuure for a reason. Next you will be saying kids should never wear anything leather because of the S&M scene. It isn't Bugfs or Sonic's or any other animated characters fault people get off on this. Most of us just ignore it because it has no bearing on our lives whatsoever. Since afterall it is none of our business.

The point being that in searching for that character or media related to it they are going to wind up finding those sites due to the proliferation. In comparison an S&M site takes a more concerted effort, and your not likely to wind up finding an S&M site by searching for a character directed at children.

There is a distinct differance between an established character being presented as "hey kids, this is for you" that has been so deeply tainted like this and for so long, and a construction material. To argue otherwise is an extremely weak straw man arguement.
 

TerribleAssassin

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Apr 11, 2010
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Samurai Goomba said:
Y'know, if you just make good games, then children of all ages will want to play them.

If the devs expected Sonic Colors to be a good game, no way would they hedge their bets with this nonsense interview. I mean, if you make a game, you want as many people as possible to play it. Since he's basically saying you will not like the game if you're over/at the age of people allowed to have forum accounts in the US (a very vocal group of gamers), I conclude Sonic Colors will be crap.
Looks like you've missed Sonic's last 9 years of gaming..




OT: I will probably buy Sonic 4 only, because it returns to the sex that is the Mega-Drive series, so that and SA:360 will be the last Sonic games I buy..
 

Crimson_Dragoon

Biologist Supreme
Jul 29, 2009
795
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Time to act old:

Back in my day, Sonic games were made for anyone who plays games. And they were good. And I had to walk 15 miles in the snow uphill, both ways, to get to school.

And what's this nonsense about kid's games having to be easy? Kids in my day grew up with Mega Man and Contra. It was tough, but we could handle it. I'm not saying all games need that kind of challenge, but even kids games should have some difficulty.
 

squid5580

Elite Member
Feb 20, 2008
5,106
0
41
Therumancer said:
squid5580 said:
Therumancer said:
Gruchul said:
Therumancer said:
It's a matter of extent. Most of the stuff about Mario or Pokemon is done as a joke to be a joke because "it's sooo wrong" or whatever. On the other hand there is an entire subculture dedicated to anthromorphic sexuality and people dressing up like animals in fursuits and such, people can do that as a lifestyle choice/kink if it's their thing, but it does mean that you see a lot more porn, and "serious" porn at that, about Sonic (and other anthromorphic characters).

Just an opinion, like many things I don't expect everyone to agree with me or go "OMG Theru, how insightful, I agree completly and unconditionally.... please become my personal life-Guru". Good thing too. I don't have the right hair to be a Guru
Frankly, you're wrong about this. There is a lot of serious pokemon porn (actually more than the Sonic stuff) and a fair amount of Mario stuff out there. I don't know why you think it's not serious. For the most part, it is (assuming by serious you mean designed to provoke a sexual response).
I'm trying to be fairly diplomatic, but what I'm point at specifically is the furry subculture. You do not have people dressing up as Pokemon or Mario characters and having sex as a lifestyle choice. It might happen as some isolated kink, but it's on a lower level.

I'm relatively tolerant when it comes to furries compared to many, but I think it's their existance and the way they have embraced Sonic that makes all the differance.

I do NOT think that children seeing this will be converted into becoming furries or that it's some insidious plan or anything. But I do think there is more serious porn of this type than for other similar things, and the way it links into a lifestyle is going to make it more disturbing for children who run into it. The guy doing pokemon porn, or mario porn, or whatever is generally not going to have a 20 page rant on his site explaining why this is right and natural, making it clear he lives a lifestyle about it, etc...
And why is a child on that site in the first place? Sure some people have some fetishes but that has no bearing on the product. It is a sub cultuure for a reason. Next you will be saying kids should never wear anything leather because of the S&M scene. It isn't Bugfs or Sonic's or any other animated characters fault people get off on this. Most of us just ignore it because it has no bearing on our lives whatsoever. Since afterall it is none of our business.

The point being that in searching for that character or media related to it they are going to wind up finding those sites due to the proliferation. In comparison an S&M site takes a more concerted effort, and your not likely to wind up finding an S&M site by searching for a character directed at children.

There is a distinct differance between an established character being presented as "hey kids, this is for you" that has been so deeply tainted like this and for so long, and a construction material. To argue otherwise is an extremely weak straw man arguement.
Sorry but pretty much everything has been corrupted like that to some degree. Just because Sonic is a bit more popular with the furry crowd is still irrelevant. I am not going to deny my child Looney Tunes or Sonic because of what some people enjoy doing.

I would also like to point out that you are exxagerating the problem. I just did a google search of both Sonic and Sonic the Hedgehog. After the 10th page I still didn't find any of which you are referring to.
 

SelectivelyEvil13

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Jul 28, 2010
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mjc0961 said:
Translation: This game sucks and we know that it sucks, so we're already pulling the "you aren't the target audience" card before you have a chance to see how much this game sucks for yourselves.

Come on, just look at this quote: "With Sonic Colors we have aimed to make a game that everyone can control and have fun in. So, it's not really a game for the core gamers."
It's a game that everyone can have fun in, but it's not for the core gamers, which are a part of everyone. Well, listen up man. Either your game is mean to be fun for everyone or fun for kids. You can't have it both ways. Just admit you made another bad game.
That's the quote that really stands out. Core generally refers to the main group, the core audience, the core readers, the center, the middle ground, or in general terms: everyone. Of course that literally cannot mean everyone will like it, but it does imply that a good chunk of people can play it and not feel totally out of place. I always thought of Sonic as a figure similar to Mario, in that you could hand it to most people familiar with gaming and they would not be lost. Sonic Colors is now caught in a shallow ploy of semantics that leads to conclusions being drawn, and not in the game's favor.
 

Optimystic

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Sep 24, 2008
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I can't help but notice that the Mario Galaxy team never had to make shitty press releases to pass off their crap as being intentional.

Come to think of it, this sums up my opinion on the subject:

 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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TerribleAssassin said:
Samurai Goomba said:
Y'know, if you just make good games, then children of all ages will want to play them.

If the devs expected Sonic Colors to be a good game, no way would they hedge their bets with this nonsense interview. I mean, if you make a game, you want as many people as possible to play it. Since he's basically saying you will not like the game if you're over/at the age of people allowed to have forum accounts in the US (a very vocal group of gamers), I conclude Sonic Colors will be crap.
Looks like you've missed Sonic's last 9 years of gaming..
I have no idea what you mean. Care to clarify your position that I missed the last 9 years of Sonic? I'm saying the 3d games are crappy, and if they would just make good ones they wouldn't need to constantly invent new excuses for why older audiences (specifically, audiences old enough to complain on forums, write game reviews and generally be critical of games which have flaws) don't enjoy the games.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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GamesB2 said:
But it looks so shiny D:

I wanna play it anyway!
No ordering from the kid's menu!

You have to order from the adult menu AND YOU WILL LIKE WHAT WE GIVE YOU!

Now have some nice, mature, Shadow the Hedgehog.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Nov 18, 2009
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mikozero said:
DeadlyYellow said:
I find it hard to look forward to Sonic 4 when it comes off more and more as just a lazy retread.

Also lack of Robotnik. I never cared for Eggman's design.
Robotnik and Eggman are the same guy.


See the difference?
 

DemonicVixen

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Oct 24, 2009
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To be honest, i can still play games that are for VERY young kids and still love them. Its if the game has something attractive, whether its bright colours, fun quests, interesting interactions and puzzles etc that makes me love them. Yes i like some games to be "adult themed" or have complex game play just to add more effect and challenge, but when im tired of loosing or not in the mood to battle with tough bosses, a quick, simple game such as the orignal Sonic games is ideal. Back when they were on the old consoles, all the game was, was collect rings, and bop a few times off the boss in order to get to the next level. Then you'd have the bonus levels etc to collect gems and more rings. Simple, easy to play and yet, keeps me entertained even now =D
 

CK76

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Sep 25, 2009
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I'd argue Sonic Advance is the best Sonic I've played since Sonic CD (and I liked the adventure titles) so...maybe Sega can manage something from Sonic 4 or this Colors game.
 

droppingpenny

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Feb 27, 2010
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geldonyetich said:
droppingpenny said:
geldonyetich said:
You know, I would be the first tell you that a lot of logic is hung up on labels, and I'd even agree with you that if you develop a game for a "hardcore" or "casual" then you are developing a game for imaginary people in your head as opposed to real people.

However, that said, I feel relatively confident I can identify that what Sega is describing as a "Core" gamer is that they are referring to the type of gamers that make up the core user base of their system, that it's not too hard to figure out what it takes to be a core user is someone who has higher standards thanks to experience.
I would agree with you if someone actually told me what a "core" and "casual" user is, since I don't know it, I have a hard time comprehending this article at all.
Well, shoot, aren't I someone [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.225729.7690183]? However, you told me that that was the stupidest thing you ever read, so I guess that's not going to work.
I mean you assume that a "core" user has higher standards, but in case of Sega it would be the same guy who complains about Sonic's eyecolor and leg length, because I doubt they are talking about the user, that still waits for Shenmue 3 to be made.
I'd be surprised if that's what they were referring to. I think Sega looks at it in terms of over-generalizations of the audience for the specific platform(s) that their games are being released on, rather than users with specific complaints.
Yes you are someone, but you didn't invent the words "core" and "casual" hacks like Michael Pachter did. Unless they explain to me what these words mean in great detail I'll asume, that they mean nothing, it is obviously not your fault. Even if Sega overgeneralizes it's audience so called "core" audiences are viewed in the Industry as the audiences with lower standards, it is much easier to sell games to them than to someone who is not familiar with them, because these people have to be convinced to buy their product, they are more picky and don't buy the same game over and over again.