Sonic the Hedgehog Movie Trailer #2
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I hate how they have less than zero faith in moviegoers.Semi-DemiFiend said:
Did Star Wars need the hero to be someone who was literally from earth who just happened to show up in A Galaxy Far Far Away? No, they took some generic non-heroic person who was in the setting and made him the central character, eventually developing him into someone interesting.
I've already posted my personal idea for a script for a Monster Hunter movie at least twice, so I'll just say that if they want an easy everyman hero, have some peasant/farmer/blacksmith guy who looks like he's having an ordinary life, have some iconic monster !@#$ up his life. Then have him go seek revenge on the iconic monster while teaming up with hunters who teach him HOW you hunt monsters. Thus, he learns about the art of hunting along with the non-fan audience, and learns how to actually work in a team instead of being some brooding revenge seeker who doesn't care if he dies (Character development!)
This at least gives the audience a SMIDGEN of trust!
Yeah, it's not a great rating system. I would put Suicide Squad at a good 1/3 of a movie. Shazam first two thirds is some of the most boring and wasteful time I've ever spent with DC. Easily worse than something like Batman and Robin or BvS. But that last third is, as you say, God tier. Better than Infinity War or Endgame, GotG or Winter Solider. But only for a third. I cant recommend this movie because it takes too long to be interesting. Also, Shazam creators, please make something that doesn't look like it belongs on TV. Because the first bit looks like a Stargate episode.Hawki said:
So my actual scores reflect that. I think I put Shazam at 7/10 with Aquaman. 8 for WW, 6 for SS. 5 for BvS. I thought the actual fight between Batman and Superman being the worst part of the movie, which is opposite to most people's thoughts.
The improvement is pretty incredible. I went in expecting it to still look terrible and was surprised to say the least.
Not much for live action films when the franchise is based in games or animation but at least it doesn't look terrible.
Also goes to show how when people actually listen to criticism and adjust instead of badmouthing the critics (basically the exact opposite starwars and ghostbusters did) that you can get better art out of it, which is all that should matter. People seem to be happy about this as well. Sega and whoever is making this movie are shining examples of how to treat your fans and of actually giving a damn about the people who made their franchise popular.
Not much for live action films when the franchise is based in games or animation but at least it doesn't look terrible.
Also goes to show how when people actually listen to criticism and adjust instead of badmouthing the critics (basically the exact opposite starwars and ghostbusters did) that you can get better art out of it, which is all that should matter. People seem to be happy about this as well. Sega and whoever is making this movie are shining examples of how to treat your fans and of actually giving a damn about the people who made their franchise popular.
Not sure how that's equivalent. It's one thing to change a CGI character. When people started losing their minds that Ghostbusters 2016 would star women, what 'course correction' could be taken at that point?Dreiko said:
Correcting a mistake that everyone should have seen a mile away isn't really an achievement. But that said, "the people who made their franchise popular?" You mean, the developers? Because it certainly isn't fans, who are consumers.
The people complaining about women were not what I'm referring to. The reason that one trailer was hated was the type of humor (bad jokes and physical slapstick) and the ugly special effects with the ghosts looking like they were from a Scooby Doo film. Both concerns are something you can do something about but especially the latter was on the exact same area that the Sonic complaints were but because that film chose to deflect criticism with the shield of feminism and brand valid concerns as misogynist because some people also were unhappy about the female cast (but not to the exclusion of everyone outside of themselves and whatever valid criticism was offered) in order to not have to take responsibility for these other issues I'm describing, it ended up failing.Hawki said:
And you'd think that these issues would have been visible a mile away but apparently they weren't so what can I say about that lol. Either way, for something to be popular it literally needs to have enough fans, that's the only criteria, you can go ahead and make anything but if fans don't choose to support it it'll fizzle out and vanish in obscurity.
Sonic is a franchise that had 3 good games and a deluge of mediocre-to-terrible ones for the last 30~ years yet people still are willing to support it and care about it. That's a huge favor being done to the franchise and the sonic fans are kind of a joke but they stick to it anyhow cause they like it. I'm just a casual who started gaming with sonic 1 but didn't really care for the series at all past sonic 2 and I respect those fans who stuck with the series for all this time and care about this film enough to get it to change so much for the better. Don't forget, the third good and recent sonic game, sonic mania, was an indie fangame that Sega chose to support. And these same people worked on the redesigns for the sonic movie. This is all an achievement of the sonic fans right here.
Completely disagree there.Dreiko said:
Look, I'm glad the redesign occurred, but yelling over the Internet isn't really an "achievement."
Creating a game is an achievement. Creating a piece of Sonic (or anything else) fanfiction, or fan-art, or analysis, or anything else, is an achievement. Yelling over the Internet isn't. Especially since redesign or not, there's no guarantee the film will do well, and I haven't seen much to convince me that it will.
It counts as retcon when its implied in the story that humans went extinct, and Overlanders were there successors. Then coming back with, "oh, they were hidden the entire time", smells retcon. I have no complaints, as it put to rest most of the humans are bastards them the comics would go with sometimes. It was usually never too bad, but certain writers went overboard or preachy with the man destroys/hurts nature and animals for petty reasons and such. When the comics brought humans in to the forefront, that shit more or less stopped.Hawki said:
Does that include the ones that are purely about fucking? Cause I think that's most of them.Hawki said:
Well, people have lives and talents in different areas so someone may not know how to make something personally or may not have the spare time to do so but still wishes to offer their support for a direction they believe in. They're not less of a fan cause they can't support the development of a fangame with their busy schedule or they don't know how to draw very well. I'd be wrong to rob those people of their contribution, whatever it may be, since they're all doing it out of their love for a series. I doubt any of the sonic mania people would deem these people as not having contributed to the longevity of the franchise because they were "just fans".Hawki said:
You don't need to produce a tangible object to be an agent for positive treatment and enthusiasm for a series. Just having someone who is a sonic fan in every community, stoically being sonic fans despite people making fun of them, is good for the franchise in that people still remember it exists and may choose to give it another chance where otherwise they'd completely forget it.
About that...CoCage said:
-Was it ever really implied that humans were extinct and replaced? I don't recall when Overlanders were introduced to the setting as a concept (I think around the 40s issues, in the run-up to Endgame), but even then, I don't recall there being anything to suggest that they were de-evolved humans. Since Mobius wasn't confirmed as future Earth until #124, and there wasn't really a hint of that until Brave New World at the earliest (with the world map), I always just took it as more "yeah, there's some humans in the setting who are called Overlanders." Like, Robotnik had to have come from somewhere, right?
-Even if that was the implication, I can't call that a retcon. An example I like to use is Superman. At some point, he was called the Last Son of Krypton, because he was thought to be the only kryptonian in existence. Then, turns out some others survived, such as Zod and Kara. Is that a retcon? Well, it changes the status quo, but nothing changes in the setting per se, it's the setting revealing new information.
I know what you mean, sort of, but I never really saw it as the trope. Yes, Overlanders in-universe were stated to be highly aggressive, but it's not as if there's a dearth of Mobian villains, even if Robotnik's the worst of the worst. That, and the comics showed Mobians were highly prejudiced towards Overlanders as well, such as when Lupe adopted the two human girls despite objections from her pack, or the prejudice Nate faced in Mobotropolis.
Like, again, see what you mean, but I never saw the introduction of 'actual' humans in the setting to be some balancing of the scales. If anything, the humans of Station Square were just as bad in some ways, if not worse (see the whole Dragon Island thing).
Look, I'm not going to deny that there's certain...elements of STH fanfiction that I'd rather not exist, but even then, as a matter of principle, if someone spends 1000 words writing an STH lemon fic, versus someone who spends a few lines bitching about the movie design, which one is the better 'contribution?' One of those things takes effort, one of them doesn't.Johnny Novgorod said:
As someone who's written plenty of STH stuff, and without smut, and also vented his spleen over the original design, I know what I'd submit as my 'contribution' to the fandom.
Was it ever established that complaining about this movie was the sole contribution to the fandom of any notable segment of the people who complained?Hawki said:
If it was I'd agree with that but I have yet to see any evidence to suggest as much so I'll be logical and assume if someone cares enough about sonic to complain about the movie, they care about it enough to be fans of it in other ways too and totaling all those acts together makes them comparable to someone who writes fanfics (of any age rating). Some people write, some people make cosplay, some people play the games 30 times each, some people talk about it online and share their hype or theories about the characters. All these things are equal if you do them enough.
I myself liked sonic 1 and 2 a ton and yet I never actually complained about the movie because I simply didn't care enough to do so. So someone who complained must have cared at least more than that much lol.
Hence, why I said most of the time. Granted, I stopped reading the Archie series by the time I started high school, and would occasionally take a peak every now and then. There is a ton I do not remember. And this is less of a balancing act, and me just hating overly preachy and self righteous message. Always disliked as a kid, and despise it even more now. It relates back to the environmentalism message thread.Hawki said:
DC Movie Rankings:
Man of Steel = S
B v. S = C- (C+ with Director's Cut)
Justice League = B
Suicide Squad = C
Aquaman = S
Wonder Woman = A
Still need to see Shazam. Looking forward to Birds of Prey.
Yeah, here's the difference: all that effortless "bitching" about the movie design got actual results, and improved the movie.Hawki said:
A user writing a 360 chapter 'fic in which Sonic doggy-styles a different "dripping" lady in each chapter doesn't improve anything (except my argument, which is: just because it took time, or effort, doesn't make it an achievement).
Difference being that the bitching was only achieved through culmative effort, and low effort at that. The contribution of the individual in this case is negligable, whereas the contribution of the individual in a fan work isn't.Johnny Novgorod said:
There's also the fact that this hypothetical fic is going to fall into the 90% of crap specified by Sturgeon's Law. What happens when we look at the other 10%?
Good.McElroy said:
Or at least, good in the sense that if you have an adult fandom for a children's IP, the IP gets more exposure. Gets 'consumed' more, so there's more of the IP. In my experience, when an IP gets an adult following (or the children are still following as adults), it makes adjustments to cater for them. Since adults crave more sophisticated material than children, the IP gets richer as a result.
That's a clear positive angle, yeah. When the kids' view of it doesn't mix with the adult one I will agree. However, I'm sure kids will constantly run into questionable MLP-related material or borderline autistic anime dissertations online. I dunno if an IP gets richer from garbage.Hawki said:
Sometimes the fans might try to ruin it, sometimes things fall apart due to the creator being a bit loony (J.K. "Just Kidding" Rowling). Or the producers might switch to easy mode and put out trash because their place in pop culture was secured long ago.
It's not hypothetical, it's called Sonic's Ultimate Harem (author Lil Soniq), comprises 360 chapters of Sonic raw-dogging Rouge, Peach, Samus et al and I'd quote parts of it if it didn't violate the CoC.Hawki said:
There hasn't been a good Sonic game in decades so I'm not inclined to give the fans' wank material the benefit of the doubt. Most of them can't even spell.
And again, just because something "took effort" doesn't mean it was worth the effort. You know that if you're quoting Sturgeon's Law.