Sony, Square-Enix Sued Over PS3 Final Fantasy XIII

Quaidis

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Jun 1, 2008
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I have a feeling that all of the extra money coming from that 5 million is to pay for the courtfees and lawyers, as Square and Sony will undoubtedly have a better hand on. You would need very expensive court employees to fight very expensive company execs.
 

Delusibeta

Reachin' out...
Mar 7, 2010
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I'm trying to comprehend how a game causes to console to brick. I think pretty much every time a console gets bricked, it's a hardware fault. Sure, your game might crash, but 99% of the time it requires nothing more than turning it off and turning it on again.

Still, I really can't see this getting anywhere.
 

GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
Mookie_Magnus said:
I suppose this is a time when XBox360 users can feel smug for once, though.
I don't see 360 owners being too smug about bricking systems. It's not like 50% of ps3s bricked.

I may be overreacting but I'm taking ff13 off my rental que right now.
50% is an outrageous rate to claim.

Sony seems to be the target of a lot of lawsuits lately, these guys would have a case if these allegations are true, but not for the outrageous sum they are suing for (unless that's punitive and not compensatory)
50% is what they were saying on this site (in the articles not the forum) and considering most of the people I know with a 360 had to deal with it at least once, it seems like a rather conservative figure to me.

And honestly, I don't blame them for suing for that much. The ps3 might not brick as much as the 360 but it's still not that great. The fact that neither Sony or Sqenix are taking this seriously, makes me hope the judge gets them everything they're asking for. Maybe I would feel differently if the ps3 got half-decent support.
 

Sparrow

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Feb 22, 2009
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Stabby Joe said:
IF this IS true, then glad I never bought it... IF of course.
I'm almost pissed I didn't buy it. Could have sued and got $50000.
 

saiyanwarrior

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Jun 14, 2009
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Stabby Joe said:
IF this IS true, then glad I never bought it... IF of course.

Although I am getting really annoyed by the increase in lawsuits... if the games industry is an "industry" that's what happens.
Agreed if this is true the im glad I didn't get a ps3 and this game last month.
 

Elesar

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Apr 16, 2009
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5 Million? Are you frakking kidding me? Ask for 1,000 a piece and they might settle out of court just to get you to go away.
And I own both and I've yet to have a problem.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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GonzoGamer said:
danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
Mookie_Magnus said:
I suppose this is a time when XBox360 users can feel smug for once, though.
I don't see 360 owners being too smug about bricking systems. It's not like 50% of ps3s bricked.

I may be overreacting but I'm taking ff13 off my rental que right now.
50% is an outrageous rate to claim.

Sony seems to be the target of a lot of lawsuits lately, these guys would have a case if these allegations are true, but not for the outrageous sum they are suing for (unless that's punitive and not compensatory)
50% is what they were saying on this site (in the articles not the forum) and considering most of the people I know with a 360 had to deal with it at least once, it seems like a rather conservative figure to me.

And honestly, I don't blame them for suing for that much. The ps3 might not brick as much as the 360 but it's still not that great. The fact that neither Sony or Sqenix are taking this seriously, makes me hope the judge gets them everything they're asking for. Maybe I would feel differently if the ps3 got half-decent support.
I don't think it's wrong to sue for that much either, ON ONE CONDITION.

Punitive damages are a punishment measure for the company, saying "you fucked up, pay this much as punishment"

Compensatory damages are to pay for what happened as in "You fucked up and it cost this guy $500, pay him back"

I am fine with $50,000 in Punitive, but NOT in compensatory.
 

Pendragon9

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Apr 26, 2009
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What?

Talk about a bunch of greedy jackasses. 50k a person? REALLY?

I garner no sympathy for these people. If your system bricks, then all you should get is a refurbished model or a refund. This 50,000 dollar a person thing is not justified.

Then again, this just showcases another reason why I don't like Final Fantasy any more. Inferior limitations on the 360, bricking on the PS3, not worth it on either.
 

Low Key

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May 7, 2009
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danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
Mookie_Magnus said:
I suppose this is a time when XBox360 users can feel smug for once, though.
I don't see 360 owners being too smug about bricking systems. It's not like 50% of ps3s bricked.

I may be overreacting but I'm taking ff13 off my rental que right now.
50% is an outrageous rate to claim.

Sony seems to be the target of a lot of lawsuits lately, these guys would have a case if these allegations are true, but not for the outrageous sum they are suing for (unless that's punitive and not compensatory)
50% is what they were saying on this site (in the articles not the forum) and considering most of the people I know with a 360 had to deal with it at least once, it seems like a rather conservative figure to me.

And honestly, I don't blame them for suing for that much. The ps3 might not brick as much as the 360 but it's still not that great. The fact that neither Sony or Sqenix are taking this seriously, makes me hope the judge gets them everything they're asking for. Maybe I would feel differently if the ps3 got half-decent support.
I don't think it's wrong to sue for that much either, ON ONE CONDITION.

Punitive damages are a punishment measure for the company, saying "you fucked up, pay this much as punishment"

Compensatory damages are to pay for what happened as in "You fucked up and it cost this guy $500, pay him back"

I am fine with $50,000 in Punitive, but NOT in compensatory.
Do you even know how a class-action lawsuit works?
 

midpipps

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Feb 23, 2009
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This sounds like a stupid lawsuit I mean seriously if all they could get with this problem is 100 I would register a guess that it is more then likely human error. I have seen so many ps3's and xboxes caked in dust and shoved in an enclosed entertainment center with no airflow i am surprised more people do not completely brick their systems. I would say FF is probably getting so much grief because it is one of those games that people will leave their systems on for weeks at a time playing.

I clean my systems monthly and keep them in an open air cabinet with plenty of breathing room around them and have not had a problem I know I was running FF on my ps3 for a week without shutting the system off. I have also ran my PS3 folding for over a week without any issues and I would say folding pushes those processors harder then any game will for some time to come. Hence why I would think this is more then likely an issue of how these systems are taken care of then a certain game or hardware issue.
 

Low Key

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May 7, 2009
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I'm hoping none of you guys have aspirations of being lawyers. None of you have any idea about CA lawsuits at all. It's kind of scary actually.
 

Comrade_Beric

Jacobin
May 10, 2010
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Penalties in class action lawsuit cases must, by definition, seek damages far larger than the actual damage caused by their products. This seems stupid to a lot of people, but it takes some thinking about to realize this is how it needs to be.

Let's assume for a minute that I were only allowed to sue for the actual damages caused by your defective product. I purchase your product, realize it is defective, and request that you fix it. What do you do? Well, if you fix my product, then you're out the money it takes to fix it. If you -DON'T- fix it, then the most I can sue you for is for the cost of fixing the product. What possible incentive do you have to fix the product without a lawsuit then? You're out the same money either way, but not fixing it carries with it the possiblity that I don't have the time, money, or know how to sue you to get the money at all.

This is why lawsuits must be for an amount larger than actual damages. If you wanted to get out with only the cost of the actual damage caused, then you should have fixed it when I asked you to. THAT was your chance to avoid a potentially costly lawsuit.

It might be best to think of it this way: They're not suing because FFXIII bricked their systems. They're suing because neither Sony nor Square-Enix would fix the damage they caused. As such, the $50,000 (pre-lawyer fee) amount is entirely reasonable.
 

oktalist

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Feb 16, 2009
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Why does everybody hate lawsuits? If your PS3 bricked because a programmer made a mistake and their employer couldn't be bothered to fix it, you would be pissed.

No lawsuit is ever awarded the full sum that it sought. For this reason, lawyers must always inflate the monetary damages. They do not expect to be awarded the whole $5m, nor will they. The other side's lawyers will barter them down, or settle out of court.

The lack of a warranty does not absolve manufacturer of all liability.
 

GrimHeaper

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Jun 1, 2010
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Sony Releases Stupid Piece Of Sh*t That Doesn't F**king Work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyVh1_vWYQ&feature=channel
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Actually John, you miss the entire point of a punitive lawsuit.

The idea of civil action is to punish the perpetrator for their wrong doing, and discourage them from doing it (and similar things) again. On top of this, going to court and fighting a company is VERY stressful, even if you don't have to worry about legal fees, you've still got all the time and effort you were forced to invest in this. Simply getting a reimbursement for the actual value of an item/damages is not worthwhile the way the system works, nor is it likely to do anything to discourage whatever practice they were involved in. In fact the legal song and dance routine is used by companies to actively discourage people from seeking justice against them... it's really that much of a pain.

Generally speaking the bigger the company/individual being accused is, the larger the amount of money needed to make a punitive suit meaningful. Truthfully given the size of Sony, I think seeking five million dollars is actually ridiculously low. For a multi-national that's barely noticible. In the final equasion they would probably rather absorb the occasional 5 million dollar hit, than adjust their practices, especially seeing as they quite likely make more money off of what their doing than they lose.

To really make a differance to Sony over something like "bricking" or the whole Linux compadibility issue, you'd need to hit them for hundreds of millions of dollars. Anything short of that would barely be noticed. Personally if *I* ever felt the need to go after a major corperation, the amount of money I'd be after would be equivilent to one quarter's (3 months) profits. Profits being computed after the expenses of running the company, so for all screaming and yelling, nobody would technically have to lose their job or anything (despite what they might claim) in the end it would be the guys at the very top who pocket those earnings being the ones losing the money. THAT would hit them hard enough to be noticed.

See, while I agree with the entire "frivilous lawsuits" thing on principle, I think most people have no idea what a frivilous lawsuit actually is. A problem lawsuit would be like if someone happened to trip on a bump, and then put a store out of business with a billion dollar lawsuit or whatever. The problem largely being when people can effectively sue for anything, and the amount of money being ridiculous not only for the damage done, but also with the size of the perpetrator. The idea being that the (genuinely) smaller the target, the less that should be done punitively beyond the cost of the damages, because it takes less to be noticible.

To use the classic example of the lady who spilled her Mcdonald's Coffee, that suit wasn't quite as bad as many people made it out to be on a lot of levels. The amount of money for example was in proportion to the size of Mcdonalds as a company, if your sueing them for damages and want to force them to take responsibility and change policies, you have to hit them so hard that they can't just make the problem go away out of petty cash. The case of the Mcdonald's Coffee being one where the suit was inappropriate due to shared responsibility. The Coffee WAS too hot, spilling a liquid beverage you are supposed to drink should not do so much damage that you require skin grafts afterwards. But at the same token she should have had it in a drink holder, I believe she had it between her legs while trying to drive (which is inconveinent as all heck, and asking for trouble). Of course Mcdonalds also got VERY lucky, not just in getting the suit heard again (and avoiding a lot of damages after paying the medical bills). By all reports had she tried to drink that coffee and swallowed some of it, she could have killed herself. It was THAT hot.

In the case of this suit however, there is no shared responsibility between the accuser and the defendant. The "bricking" occurs through legitimate, unexceptional use of the product.

I'm guessing from the way this sounds, Squeenix and Sony acknowlege the problem, but neither want to take responsibility to make things right. Their attitude basically being "we're big companies, who really cares about the people with bricked systems? we just don't want to pay the bill". If they force you to go to court, it's important that if you win they be hit hard enough to feel it.
 

reg42

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Mar 18, 2009
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Um... Didn't have any effect on my system, other than giving me a free theme.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Low Key said:
danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
danpascooch said:
GonzoGamer said:
Mookie_Magnus said:
I suppose this is a time when XBox360 users can feel smug for once, though.
I don't see 360 owners being too smug about bricking systems. It's not like 50% of ps3s bricked.

I may be overreacting but I'm taking ff13 off my rental que right now.
50% is an outrageous rate to claim.

Sony seems to be the target of a lot of lawsuits lately, these guys would have a case if these allegations are true, but not for the outrageous sum they are suing for (unless that's punitive and not compensatory)
50% is what they were saying on this site (in the articles not the forum) and considering most of the people I know with a 360 had to deal with it at least once, it seems like a rather conservative figure to me.

And honestly, I don't blame them for suing for that much. The ps3 might not brick as much as the 360 but it's still not that great. The fact that neither Sony or Sqenix are taking this seriously, makes me hope the judge gets them everything they're asking for. Maybe I would feel differently if the ps3 got half-decent support.
I don't think it's wrong to sue for that much either, ON ONE CONDITION.

Punitive damages are a punishment measure for the company, saying "you fucked up, pay this much as punishment"

Compensatory damages are to pay for what happened as in "You fucked up and it cost this guy $500, pay him back"

I am fine with $50,000 in Punitive, but NOT in compensatory.
Do you even know how a class-action lawsuit works?
Yes. At least in the United States anyway.

I realize they would still get some or all of the money, but it's important that this distinction is made.