Sony, Square-Enix Sued Over PS3 Final Fantasy XIII

KatiCentauri

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May 10, 2010
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So people's consoles died. And they happened to be playing the same very new game that many, many other people were also playing without difficulty.
Sometimes, coincidences happen. It's certainly no cause for such a ridiculous lawsuit. Just ***** and replace it like the rest of us. Or pick up a new hobby.
 

the_tramp

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May 16, 2008
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Well... they do have to cover their legal costs as well, which we all know aren't cheap. That being said... yeah I completely agree with you that $50,000 per person is stupid.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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bostitch said:
Therumancer said:
A bit of a burn, some blisters, okay, that's hot water, but the amount of damage inflicted was crazy, as was the temperature of the coffee. When liquids are that hot, typically warning signs are posted, and nobody expects something that hot to be served to them as a drinkable beverage.
What, no-one drinks tea in your country?
:)

Yes, people do, but they do not die by doing so. One point about that coffee was that going by the damage it did to her thighs/lap when it spilled, was that if she drank it she probably would have died. Or at least according to a lot of things I was reading. A big part of the suit was that she wasn't just burned a bit, but needed extensive skin grafts.
 

Sovvolf

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Therumancer said:
bostitch said:
Therumancer said:
A bit of a burn, some blisters, okay, that's hot water, but the amount of damage inflicted was crazy, as was the temperature of the coffee. When liquids are that hot, typically warning signs are posted, and nobody expects something that hot to be served to them as a drinkable beverage.
What, no-one drinks tea in your country?
:)

Yes, people do, but they do not die by doing so. One point about that coffee was that going by the damage it did to her thighs/lap when it spilled, was that if she drank it she probably would have died. Or at least according to a lot of things I was reading. A big part of the suit was that she wasn't just burned a bit, but needed extensive skin grafts.
Ho back some time ago that was one of the biggest killers of us Brits. The magma-hot Tea... Eventually we became immune to such burns through extensive tea drinking... The first decade though... Madness, worse than any site seen on the battlefield... The horror... The horror.

As for the current article... well my copy of FFXIII was for the 360 so I guess I looked out. Though the arguement seems like one you'd see in a playground. Sony shouting "He did it" Square-Cenix shouting "No he did it".
 

midpipps

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Feb 23, 2009
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Therumancer said:
Well, the thing to understand is that "innocent until proven guilty" and "beyond a reasonable doubt" only applies in a criminal case. Civil matters are generally resolved by a "preponderance of evidence".

In a criminal case the standards are so high because it's a person against the goverment. In a civil matter on the other hand it's one private person or group against another. A preponderance of evidence meaning whomever can prove a stronger case.



Also in civil matters you get into concepts like degree of liability. That is to say that someone can be responsible in part for something that happens, without being liable for everything that occured.

To use the Coffee as an example, I believe the initial ruling was overturned, but Mcdonalds was found partially liable as opposed to fully responsible. The idea being that while the coffee was unreasonably hot, the person was also irresponsible in the way they were carrying the beverage.

See the key point of Mcdonald's liability was that nobody expects coffee to be hot enough to burn someone to the point where they need skin grasps. A bit of a burn, some blisters, okay, that's hot water, but the amount of damage inflicted was crazy, as was the temperature of the coffee. When liquids are that hot, typically warning signs are posted, and nobody expects something that hot to be served to them as a drinkable beverage.

In a case of only partial responsibility, your not going to see any massive punitive settlements being awarded. In the Mcdonald's Coffee case the lady lost the huge cash settlement she initially received (or most of it) but I believe Mcdonalds still wound up paying for the medical bills which were extensive... to the tune of a couple hundred thousand dollars if I remember (it's been a long time).

One important thing to understand though is that ordinary people are not expected to have massive investigative abillities (though some might, or have the resources to hire those that do). The goverment on the other hand can afford to employ numerous specialists. This is why the standard of proof in a criminal matter is so high. When two private groups duke it out, one routine criticism of our system is that rich folks, or big businesses, can afford to hire experts, investigators, etc... to form a case much better than a regular (or poor) person accusing them. The goverment can't 'balance' cases like this because if it did, it would cease to be a neutral party (it would be abused).

Basically Civil Law, and Criminal Law, are entirely differant animals, with differant standards of proof, differant rules, and differant policies. I only covered civil law in brief many years ago, because I was studying Forensics. I know considerably more about criminal law when it's a person vs. The State, as opposed to civil law where it's a person against another person, with the state simply providing the court/infrastructure... unless
of course they are also requested to make the desicians as well. The rules for involving judges, juries, etc... can be a bit differant civilly.
That is some good info thanks for that.
 

hitheremynameisbob

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Jun 25, 2008
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Low Key said:
John Funk said:
The terms, on the other hand, are a bit less reasonable. The suit, which claims to represent over 100 PS3 owners, is seeking $5 million from Sony and Square-Enix in damages. So ideally, the plaintiffs are seeking approximately $50,000 per person, when the cost of a PS3 (and FF13) is $660 - at most, if you got the PS3 when it was first released.
That's not how class-action lawsuits work John. Other people are encouraged to join in (the more people, the more of a case they have), effectively reducing everyone's piece of the pie. The one thing about lawsuits is you have to name your price, then sue. You can't sue, then pick how much you want to receive.
Yep, and of course some of the sum is punitive. It's not just "you screwed up so you owe us compensation," in this case. The plaintiffs are alleging that both defendants KNEW they had screwed up, and refused to do anything about it. Punitive damages are meant to punish defendants in the event of willful wrongdoing. Since you're not going to be sending any executives to jail with a civil suite over defective video games, and since 100 (or whatever the final number of plaintiffs ends up being) times $660 is pocket change to Sony and Squeenix, what's to keep them from just doing the same thing again if they lose this case? They'd have both still made money off FFXIII, I'd bet, (Sony from console bundles). Without punitive damages, there's no incentive for them to avoid doing this in the future. Five million is still small change to both of them, so it's a fair sum (it won't ruin either company), but it's big enough to put a significant dent in their profits from FFXIII, and thus to make them seriously consider not addressing similar problems in the future.
 

Rayansaki

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Brad Shepard said:
See? Thats what they get for booing the 360 version
The problem has been reported to happen on the x360 as well, there are many youtube videos about it. There's just not enough people that bought it on the x360 and it only happens to a very small % so it's not as noticed.
 

Racthoh

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Feb 9, 2009
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Hopefully the lawsuit is successfully, Squarenix will go nearly bankrupt... uhhh... somehow, then they'll have enough for one last ditch effort and make an actual decent game again.
 

bridgerbot

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The Ambrosian said:
bridgerbot said:
The Ambrosian said:
I never understand lawsuits, I don't know if it's me being ignorant, but as you said $660 is not $50,000. And even if it was emotional damages I doubt you'd have suffered $44,360 from a console breaking - otherwise half of xbox owners would get money from RRoD.
There's a misconception here about the final cost of class action lawsuits, as I addressed above. No one knows the size of the class yet. The $5 million doesn't mean much.
But they still get charged pretty oversized amounts for the actual situation though, right?
No, you HAVE to name a price when suing someone. Let's say this affects 100,000 people, that breaks down to $50/person IF it is settled at $5 million.

Now do you consider your PS3 worth more than $50?

The $5 million amount is currently irrelevant, it'll depend on how many people it affects, and how much the amount is to settle/occurance.
 

I killed death

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$5 million dollars is too much. i mean i get sueing if it really happened, but 5 million, thats too much. if i sued, i would want too get extra money, but i wouldnt get too greedy. plus, i like the final fantasy series
 

Archemetis

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Aug 13, 2008
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Now I don't know if I feel like a sucker for getting it on my (so-far) totally reliable Xbox 360 which since the day I got both it and the game hasn't had a single fault... 'Cos now I miss out on the opportunity to have $50,000 (or the British equivalent) thrown at me to 'ease my distress'.

Or whether I feel great about having it on my Xbox because while some guys are getting obscenely rich (potentially) I'm still playing FFXIII*

*(or rather I WOULD be playing it if It wasn't so gosh-darn boring).
 

bridgerbot

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Mar 16, 2009
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I killed death said:
$5 million dollars is too much. i mean i get sueing if it really happened, but 5 million, thats too much. if i sued, i would want too get extra money, but i wouldnt get too greedy. plus, i like the final fantasy series
As had already been repeatedly stated in the comments, the $5 million amount means NOTHING. Let's say there are 100,000 people in that class, and each one gets $50 for their damaged PS3. Would you say those people are getting "too much" for their PS3 that they purchased for $300 to $600 ?
 

The Ambrosian

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May 9, 2009
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bridgerbot said:
The Ambrosian said:
bridgerbot said:
The Ambrosian said:
I never understand lawsuits, I don't know if it's me being ignorant, but as you said $660 is not $50,000. And even if it was emotional damages I doubt you'd have suffered $44,360 from a console breaking - otherwise half of xbox owners would get money from RRoD.
There's a misconception here about the final cost of class action lawsuits, as I addressed above. No one knows the size of the class yet. The $5 million doesn't mean much.
But they still get charged pretty oversized amounts for the actual situation though, right?
No, you HAVE to name a price when suing someone. Let's say this affects 100,000 people, that breaks down to $50/person IF it is settled at $5 million.

Now do you consider your PS3 worth more than $50?

The $5 million amount is currently irrelevant, it'll depend on how many people it affects, and how much the amount is to settle/occurance.
Understood, thanks.