Sony Wins Restraining Order Against Geohot

Low Key

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Xzi said:
KEM10 said:
EcksTeaSea said:
So Sony is going after a guy who cracked their security? Shit they should ask him how he did it and develop something better off that, not go after him with a lawsuit.
That's part of the plea bargain.

Seriously, if more of the hackers were hired to work for Sony or MS, I believe that the system hacking would be a lot more difficult. That and the want to hack might also be eliminated (out of the box Linux ready PS3 anyone?).
Plea bargain? Lol. This thing will get dismissed, no question. Hotz's lawyer has a million different defense strategies he can use here. The least of which not being that Hotz was simply restoring functionality clearly advertised on the console box to the PS3 (other OS).
GeoHot wasn't the guy who cracked the PS3 for the Other OS option. That was fail0verflow, and they only cracked it enough to restore Linux functionality. What GeoHot did was took fail0verflow's work and completely cracked the PS3. It would be hard for his lawyer to claim he did it merely to restore Linux functionality when that was what he used to fully breach the security.
 

Low Key

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Judgement101 said:
danpascooch said:
First off, this is bullshit.

Secondly, how the fuck does one "retrieve" information they "communicated" to a third party? Men in Black style memory wiping?
You may have known at one point but Sony already got to you!

OT: Is sony really THAT paranoid?
Yes, Sony is really that paranoid. It's for good reason.

With fail0verflow's Other OS method of cracking, one could effectively install and uninstall whatever firmware they wanted. Then with GeoHot's crack, with the custom firmware in place, a person could play whatever they wanted. But say that person wanted to play online one day. All they would have to do is uninstall the custom firmware, then reinstall whatever was on there, and no one would be the wiser.

In other words, if some tech savvy person tried hard enough, they could use the Other OS and game security cracks and streamline the whole process to allow any regular joe to play pirated games while still giving them full online multiplayer capabilities. The PS3 would pretty much be dead in the water.
 

Arehexes

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Low Key said:
Xzi said:
KEM10 said:
EcksTeaSea said:
So Sony is going after a guy who cracked their security? Shit they should ask him how he did it and develop something better off that, not go after him with a lawsuit.
That's part of the plea bargain.

Seriously, if more of the hackers were hired to work for Sony or MS, I believe that the system hacking would be a lot more difficult. That and the want to hack might also be eliminated (out of the box Linux ready PS3 anyone?).
Plea bargain? Lol. This thing will get dismissed, no question. Hotz's lawyer has a million different defense strategies he can use here. The least of which not being that Hotz was simply restoring functionality clearly advertised on the console box to the PS3 (other OS).
GeoHot wasn't the guy who cracked the PS3 for the Other OS option. That was fail0verflow, and they only cracked it enough to restore Linux functionality. What GeoHot did was took fail0verflow's work and completely cracked the PS3. It would be hard for his lawyer to claim he did it merely to restore Linux functionality when that was what he used to fully breach the security.
Yeah I remember reading about that, overflow did a little and geo leaked the info and did more then what over flow did.
 

Autofaux

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Oh nooooo, Sony now has the tools to fix its console security. This is so horrible, oh no.
 

JDKJ

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Xaryn Mar said:
JDKJ said:
Xzi said:
JDKJ said:
Xzi said:
KEM10 said:
EcksTeaSea said:
So Sony is going after a guy who cracked their security? Shit they should ask him how he did it and develop something better off that, not go after him with a lawsuit.
That's part of the plea bargain.

Seriously, if more of the hackers were hired to work for Sony or MS, I believe that the system hacking would be a lot more difficult. That and the want to hack might also be eliminated (out of the box Linux ready PS3 anyone?).
Plea bargain? Lol. This thing will get dismissed, no question. Hotz's lawyer has a million different defense strategies he can use here. The least of which not being that Hotz was simply restoring functionality clearly advertised on the console box to the PS3 (other OS).
The worth of that defense defense depends on whether or not simply restoring that functionality was more likely than not to further piracy. If it's more likely than not to further piracy, then it ain't no kinda defense.
Irrelevant. If his lawyer can prove that was his intent, the case will be dismissed.

While easier access to piracy on the platform may be a side-effect of his actions, it's one that is unavoidable in the process restoring said functionality. Piracy is also not the basis of the case that Sony has brought upon Hotz.
No, I believe they're proceeding under the DMCA's provision prohibiting the modification of an access control mechanism. And that provision says that if the modification at issue is more likely than not to further the purpose of piracy, then the modification is prohibited and a defendant so accused can be found liable if the plaintiff can carry that burden of proof. If Sony can prove that the modification information at issue was more likely than not disseminated in furtherance of piracy (which doesn't strike me as an impossible burden to carry in this case given, as you point out, that increased possibility of piracy is an unavoidable side-effect of the modification), then the defendant saying that he did it for a particular purpose not in furtherance of piracy doesn't really matter. What matters is the likelihood of piracy. Which, in this case, does appear to be a substantial likelihood.
Hmmm, one could argue that Sony could be sued for the exact same thing, since piracy is a very likely side effect of the creation of the ps3... Not saying that it is possible to do that but the way that rule is formulated makes it seem plausible.
The same thing could be said about every game produced for any platform and where do we then end up?

P.S. That is why the DMCA is a load of bull. It is way too easy to misuse.
Not really. The DMCA states that:

"to 'circumvent a technological measure' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner."

Obviously, if you're the owner of the copyrighted work being circumvented or someone acting with the owner's authority, the Act doesn't apply to you.

And what the Act actually says is "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing . . . " or "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent . . ." or "has knowledge." The full quote is:

"No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that?
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person?s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."

So, even if the modification has secondary uses that could be legitimate, if it's more likely to be for the purpose of avoiding copyright protection mechanisms than for some other purpose or the defendant has knowledge that it is for the purpose of avoiding copyright protection mechanisms, they're dangling on the hook.
 

whaleswiththumbs

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So Sony just legally claimed this man's entire electronics collection. Just because they "may" be related to PS3 hacking. I'd find loopholes in that holy ruling
 

JDKJ

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whaleswiththumbs said:
So Sony just legally claimed this man's entire electronics collection. Just because they "may" be related to PS3 hacking. I'd find loopholes in that holy ruling
Unfortunately for Hotz, it doesn't take much to get a preliminary injunction. It's a pretty low standard that's easily satisfied in most cases (because it is based largely on "may be" and is only temporary). Getting a permanent injunction requires a much higher standard be satisfied (not "may be" but "must be").
 

BDNeon

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I hope this guy gets put away for a long time. As an aspiring game developer, hackers like Geohot sicken me. They may claim that what they do is to open up platforms for homebrew, but somehow piracy and cheating always accompanies their efforts.

Maybe Sony can't stop the hack, but they can show all the scum out there that are trying to cheat and steal what happens when you break the law. I hope they RUIN that bastard, as he tried to ruin my favorite console.
 

Kuilui

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Personally if I was Sony I would have just hired the guy.. Although I can respect their whole if you mess with us we will go ape all over you do not **** with us strategy. Certainly sends a very clear message. Good for them.
 

RMoD

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It didn't. A jailbroken iPhone is just as capable of running pirated apps as a "jailbroken" PS3 is capable of running pirated games.
 

JDKJ

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RMoD said:
It didn't. A jailbroken iPhone is just as capable of running pirated apps as a "jailbroken" PS3 is capable of running pirated games.
"Just as capable" doesn't win any stuffed toys, thought. The modification, according to the Act, has to be "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing [and allowing access to pirated media]" or "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent [and allowing access to pirated media]." I don't believe the iPhone jailbreak can be said to have been primarily designed or produced for the purpose of running pirated apps or to have limited commercially purpose other than running pirated apps. I believe that the iPhone jailbreak was primarily designed to allow iPhones to run apps other than Apple's apps and to be used on non-AT&T systems (hence the name "jailbreak" because it breaks the phone out of the monopolistic jail in which Apple and AT&T attempted to imprison it). On the other hand, the PS3 hack does seem to have very little commercial value or use other than to allow access to pirated media. I don't think the iPhone jailbreak and the PS3 hack are analogous.
 

Ca3zar416

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Nothing to his name? This is the same person who also hacked the iphone so that he would be able to use other phone service providers and shared that. He got an internship at Google for that one so I'm pretty sure they will just remain impressed with him after all of this. He's pretty well set.
 

migo

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Geohot was hacking OtherOS to get access to the RSX, which Sony should have provided from the start (rather than blocking it out in 2.10), so Sony removes OtherOS, which screws over people who explicitly bought the PS3 for that feature. He then hacks it again to put OtherOS back.

That's total misuse of the DMCA, but it's not as if it's ever been used properly anyway.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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I'm just having fun watching people get asshurt on both sides. I find it funny how many people go "Sony wont get another cent from me!" when most progbably they weren't giving Sony money anyway. I actually think the people saying it are the ones who were going to Jailbreak there PS3s to play back ups.

And if you're syaing I'm accusing you of being a filthy pirate, well you know what they say about the Guilty Conscience.

But there's one thing for people who thinks this isn't justice.

OF COURSE IT'S JUSTICE! Justice is decided by the winners, Whoever wins this case decides what justice is!
 

AzrealMaximillion

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I don't get the hate for Sony here. Especially this whole, "they should just hire him" crap. What message does that show? Break the law, get a job? That's idiotic. SOny has a right to go after someone who fuck with their stuff. I hate how these hackers always hide behind the, "i didn't mean for it to be a piracy tool" excuse. It's not like Geohut should've been surprised that people wanted to use it for piracy. Why not hack it but make it so that you can't pirate with it? Then at least he'd have a feasible excuse rather than one every single hacker seems to use. And really guys Sony's going after then not because it hurts just them. This allows you to pirate games. Thus allowing people to steal from game publishers, you know, Sony's direct business partners. If Sony just let people steal Level-5's games do you think Level-5 would be happy. Get over this hacker revolution crap. He broke the law period.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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montopolis said:
I dont think Sony dumb enough to think it can stop the signal. They know this is out, and there is no stopping it. I am sure all Sony wants to do is f**k George Hotz, by any way possible, like making him spend all his money on court costs and lawyers, and restricting him in ways like this. He screwed Sony, now Sony is trying to do the same to him, that's all.
PS.
Also, I think this may be a tactic to try to dissuade others from doing the same in the future. So the next guy that hacks the next Sony system, should have to do it anonymously and not be able to boast about it like George Hotz did. Taking away the notoriety element that was obviously fueling the reason to hack the PS3.
Well this hack allows people to pirate games. Games made by companies other than Sony. Why make bad relations with your business partners by just letting a hacker who stupidly put up his name and the code that allows for theft to just slide by?