Sony Wins Restraining Order Against Geohot

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JDKJ

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Xaryn Mar said:
JDKJ said:
Xzi said:
JDKJ said:
Xzi said:
KEM10 said:
EcksTeaSea said:
So Sony is going after a guy who cracked their security? Shit they should ask him how he did it and develop something better off that, not go after him with a lawsuit.
That's part of the plea bargain.

Seriously, if more of the hackers were hired to work for Sony or MS, I believe that the system hacking would be a lot more difficult. That and the want to hack might also be eliminated (out of the box Linux ready PS3 anyone?).
Plea bargain? Lol. This thing will get dismissed, no question. Hotz's lawyer has a million different defense strategies he can use here. The least of which not being that Hotz was simply restoring functionality clearly advertised on the console box to the PS3 (other OS).
The worth of that defense defense depends on whether or not simply restoring that functionality was more likely than not to further piracy. If it's more likely than not to further piracy, then it ain't no kinda defense.
Irrelevant. If his lawyer can prove that was his intent, the case will be dismissed.

While easier access to piracy on the platform may be a side-effect of his actions, it's one that is unavoidable in the process restoring said functionality. Piracy is also not the basis of the case that Sony has brought upon Hotz.
No, I believe they're proceeding under the DMCA's provision prohibiting the modification of an access control mechanism. And that provision says that if the modification at issue is more likely than not to further the purpose of piracy, then the modification is prohibited and a defendant so accused can be found liable if the plaintiff can carry that burden of proof. If Sony can prove that the modification information at issue was more likely than not disseminated in furtherance of piracy (which doesn't strike me as an impossible burden to carry in this case given, as you point out, that increased possibility of piracy is an unavoidable side-effect of the modification), then the defendant saying that he did it for a particular purpose not in furtherance of piracy doesn't really matter. What matters is the likelihood of piracy. Which, in this case, does appear to be a substantial likelihood.
Hmmm, one could argue that Sony could be sued for the exact same thing, since piracy is a very likely side effect of the creation of the ps3... Not saying that it is possible to do that but the way that rule is formulated makes it seem plausible.
The same thing could be said about every game produced for any platform and where do we then end up?

P.S. That is why the DMCA is a load of bull. It is way too easy to misuse.
Not really. The DMCA states that:

"to 'circumvent a technological measure' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner."

Obviously, if you're the owner of the copyrighted work being circumvented or someone acting with the owner's authority, the Act doesn't apply to you.

And what the Act actually says is "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing . . . " or "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent . . ." or "has knowledge." The full quote is:

"No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that?
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person?s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."

So, even if the modification has secondary uses that could be legitimate, if it's more likely to be for the purpose of avoiding copyright protection mechanisms than for some other purpose or the defendant has knowledge that it is for the purpose of avoiding copyright protection mechanisms, they're dangling on the hook.
 

whaleswiththumbs

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So Sony just legally claimed this man's entire electronics collection. Just because they "may" be related to PS3 hacking. I'd find loopholes in that holy ruling
 

JDKJ

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whaleswiththumbs said:
So Sony just legally claimed this man's entire electronics collection. Just because they "may" be related to PS3 hacking. I'd find loopholes in that holy ruling
Unfortunately for Hotz, it doesn't take much to get a preliminary injunction. It's a pretty low standard that's easily satisfied in most cases (because it is based largely on "may be" and is only temporary). Getting a permanent injunction requires a much higher standard be satisfied (not "may be" but "must be").
 

BDNeon

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I hope this guy gets put away for a long time. As an aspiring game developer, hackers like Geohot sicken me. They may claim that what they do is to open up platforms for homebrew, but somehow piracy and cheating always accompanies their efforts.

Maybe Sony can't stop the hack, but they can show all the scum out there that are trying to cheat and steal what happens when you break the law. I hope they RUIN that bastard, as he tried to ruin my favorite console.
 

Kuilui

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Personally if I was Sony I would have just hired the guy.. Although I can respect their whole if you mess with us we will go ape all over you do not **** with us strategy. Certainly sends a very clear message. Good for them.
 

RMoD

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It didn't. A jailbroken iPhone is just as capable of running pirated apps as a "jailbroken" PS3 is capable of running pirated games.
 

JDKJ

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RMoD said:
It didn't. A jailbroken iPhone is just as capable of running pirated apps as a "jailbroken" PS3 is capable of running pirated games.
"Just as capable" doesn't win any stuffed toys, thought. The modification, according to the Act, has to be "primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing [and allowing access to pirated media]" or "has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent [and allowing access to pirated media]." I don't believe the iPhone jailbreak can be said to have been primarily designed or produced for the purpose of running pirated apps or to have limited commercially purpose other than running pirated apps. I believe that the iPhone jailbreak was primarily designed to allow iPhones to run apps other than Apple's apps and to be used on non-AT&T systems (hence the name "jailbreak" because it breaks the phone out of the monopolistic jail in which Apple and AT&T attempted to imprison it). On the other hand, the PS3 hack does seem to have very little commercial value or use other than to allow access to pirated media. I don't think the iPhone jailbreak and the PS3 hack are analogous.
 

Ca3zar416

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Nothing to his name? This is the same person who also hacked the iphone so that he would be able to use other phone service providers and shared that. He got an internship at Google for that one so I'm pretty sure they will just remain impressed with him after all of this. He's pretty well set.
 

migo

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Geohot was hacking OtherOS to get access to the RSX, which Sony should have provided from the start (rather than blocking it out in 2.10), so Sony removes OtherOS, which screws over people who explicitly bought the PS3 for that feature. He then hacks it again to put OtherOS back.

That's total misuse of the DMCA, but it's not as if it's ever been used properly anyway.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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I'm just having fun watching people get asshurt on both sides. I find it funny how many people go "Sony wont get another cent from me!" when most progbably they weren't giving Sony money anyway. I actually think the people saying it are the ones who were going to Jailbreak there PS3s to play back ups.

And if you're syaing I'm accusing you of being a filthy pirate, well you know what they say about the Guilty Conscience.

But there's one thing for people who thinks this isn't justice.

OF COURSE IT'S JUSTICE! Justice is decided by the winners, Whoever wins this case decides what justice is!
 

AzrealMaximillion

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I don't get the hate for Sony here. Especially this whole, "they should just hire him" crap. What message does that show? Break the law, get a job? That's idiotic. SOny has a right to go after someone who fuck with their stuff. I hate how these hackers always hide behind the, "i didn't mean for it to be a piracy tool" excuse. It's not like Geohut should've been surprised that people wanted to use it for piracy. Why not hack it but make it so that you can't pirate with it? Then at least he'd have a feasible excuse rather than one every single hacker seems to use. And really guys Sony's going after then not because it hurts just them. This allows you to pirate games. Thus allowing people to steal from game publishers, you know, Sony's direct business partners. If Sony just let people steal Level-5's games do you think Level-5 would be happy. Get over this hacker revolution crap. He broke the law period.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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montopolis said:
I dont think Sony dumb enough to think it can stop the signal. They know this is out, and there is no stopping it. I am sure all Sony wants to do is f**k George Hotz, by any way possible, like making him spend all his money on court costs and lawyers, and restricting him in ways like this. He screwed Sony, now Sony is trying to do the same to him, that's all.
PS.
Also, I think this may be a tactic to try to dissuade others from doing the same in the future. So the next guy that hacks the next Sony system, should have to do it anonymously and not be able to boast about it like George Hotz did. Taking away the notoriety element that was obviously fueling the reason to hack the PS3.
Well this hack allows people to pirate games. Games made by companies other than Sony. Why make bad relations with your business partners by just letting a hacker who stupidly put up his name and the code that allows for theft to just slide by?
 

WolfEdge

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Pandaman1911 said:
danpascooch said:
First off, this is bullshit.

Secondly, how the fuck does one "retrieve" information they gave to a third party? Men in Black style memory wiping?
Don't fucking tempt fate, man. Next thing you know you'll have Sony ninjas and shit breaking through your window.

On topic, I do believe that this is quite bullshit, and that Sony should just grow up and act its age.
"Ninjas... damn..."

Will I get a warning for this post? Maybe... but SOMEONE had to bite that bullet.
 

duchaked

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I can just imagine a distraught PS3 in the court with Hotz...
bleh guess restraining orders don't just apply for girls and their stalkers :p
 

The Rockerfly

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Well because of all this security thing and just how Sony has handled it, I will never buy another Sony product.
Not because I am going to pirate anything but just because they are willing to put a man in jail over one of the most irritating laws created in history. How they have handled this has been atrocious as they could have hired this man and how they are contemplating using key codes.
I say no
I will not support a company that bullies other people for their security problems. Along with this, taking away the linux feature is really shitty.
People say Microsoft is greedy and they maybe right, but at least they haven't taken away significant features like Sony have.
 

Hashime

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If I were hotz I would make a wiki-leaks style insurance file and get it on the net. That is what I would do, even if it were a total bluff.
 

Void Droid

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He deserves what he gets. If he wanted to mod the PS3 for his own uses then I'm cool with that, it's no big deal, but when you release it to the public KNOWING it could and will be used for piracy then the "oh I just wanted the other OS back" defence becomes irrelevant.
 

midpipps

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The Rockerfly said:
Well because of all this security thing and just how Sony has handled it, I will never buy another Sony product.
Not because I am going to pirate anything but just because they are willing to put a man in jail over one of the most irritating laws created in history. How they have handled this has been atrocious as they could have hired this man and how they are contemplating using key codes.
I say no
I will not support a company that bullies other people for their security problems. Along with this, taking away the linux feature and web browser is really shitty.
People say Microsoft is greedy and they maybe right, but at least they haven't taken away significant features like Sony have.
Wait when did they take away the web browser?

*turns on ps3 fires up web browser starts talking to console
me:did you know you are not supposed to have a web browser?
PS3:Really who would say that I am here and working fine.
me:Oh I guess it is just another case of the internet being wrong.

Sorry that is a little harsh the web browser is still intact and working like it always has. As for other OS yes it got taken away. I was not happy about it especially since I was doing some cell work on it. But I had 4 choices.
1. Stop doing my cell programming on it. :(
2. Stay with having linux and do not agree to the eula and not upgrade firmware and not be able to play games on PSN or possibly some of the new games. :(
3. Get another ps3 and have 1 running linux and one to play games on. :(
4. Update ps3 play games and load cell virtualization system on desktop computer and have both without spending the extra money. :)

I think sony is in the right although I do not agree with their way of going about it. If GeoHotz wanted to load a custom operating system on the ps3 and get rid of the sony OS I would say they probably would not have had such an issue with him. But he cracked the ps3 firmware through the other OS which is basically opening up their main proprietary system. Which if you remember happened before they removed otherOS. They allowed the other OS even though I am sure they knew that it could cause security issues (how could they not). Someone abused it and ruined it for the rest of us. I understand the urge to tinker and break things but why did he not stop at the other OS why did he continue to break the playstation firmware. I am sure they could have came up with a system that overwrote the firmware and just installed the other OS or you know just not accepted the new firmware and stuck with the old firmware that still has the other OS option and I am sure some more tinkering and they could have had full control of the graphic processor too giving the homebrew scene a linux kernel to run on. They basically gave an easy place for homebrew and then people abused it and runined it for the rest of us.