Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers

[SonicWaffle]

I won't say the series is ruined for me, but it will feel peculiar to play through all 3 games and then turn the third one off 10 minutes before the end to make up my own ending.

I won't lie, I was tempted, but I'm A) a sucker for closure (albeit shitty closure) and B) was really curious as to whether the end could possibly be as bad as people said. Turns out it was half-and-half; it was bad, but not as bad as some people made it out to be. As yet, it has not raped my children, although I'll be keeping an eye on it.

You'd better; There's still ending DLC on the way.

Luckily, I don't have any children. Thinking about it, this may be why the ending hasn't raped them.

 

[SonicWaffle]

ME 3 thread= Yet another morning shot.

Sorry, you lost me. What's a morning shot?

I'm afraid for the fix too mostly because I'm not convinced that it couldn't get worse from here.

What I've read about the "fix" is that it's just an expansion/clarification of the ending we've had already. I don't understand how that's meant to be a good thing; we're just going to be given more detail about something that already sucks. They're not changing anything, just telling us why we ought to appreciate what we've got.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Let me get this straight, you were complaining about complainers without having actually seen the freaking ending?

Yes. One does not necessarily require the other. I found it surprising that people were acting in such extreme ways as announcing BioWare boycotts, demanding different endings, and spewing vitriol across every message board they could because they didn't like the ending of a game.

Having now played the ending, I have a better understanding of why everyone is so upset. That doesn't mean I approve of the idiotic behaviour some people engaged in, just that I'm more aware of what drove them to it.

Well excuse me for rubbing your nose in the dirt now.

You Whiny entitled homophobic brat, the ending is perfect and you cannot questions Biowares Glorious Artistic Integrity

Oh look, an inability to discuss things in an adult fashion. Shocking. No, I'm not going to excuse you for acting like an ass, sorry. And homophobic? Where on earth did you pull that little gem from?

 

[SonicWaffle]

Because the shitstorm was so massive it completely overshadowed any other legitimate criticisms about the game. Can I get an Extended Cut DLC that gives me a Quest Log that actually works please? I only have to deal with a shitty ending for three minutes. That damn journal was a pain in my ass for thirty hours.

Ugh, the quest log. Why did it always go to the middle when you opened it?! Towards the end I had maybe 3 quests left, and every time I went to check them I had to scroll aaaall the way up to the top of the page. Slowly. Not that there was ever much point to checking; they were usually so basic ("An Asari wants something. Go here, get it, then go give it to her". "There are Cerberus guys on this planet. Go shoot them") that it was easier to just run around doing stuff until you spoke to someone and suddenly got some XP and credits.

Or like how, in the primary codex, the entires would be read aloud. That really annoyed me, because trying to read through is a lot harder when there's a really slow voice distracting you. How hard would it be to include a toggle to turn that off?

There were a few problems, but overall it was a solid, enjoyable game. I could overlook the little flaws because it was so compelling. It's just that the ending was slightly more than a little flaw.

 

[SonicWaffle]

The whole controversy has been going on for a while now, regarding whether fans have any right to demand that a game (or any other work of art) ending be changed simply because they didn't like it. I don't think I agree with that. I was firmly on the side of the naysayers, believing that such a thing was just a bit childish, equivalent to stamping your feet because you didn't get what you wanted.

I, and I believe the vast majority of people who disliked the ending are not "demanding" it be changed. This is one thing that people simply do not get. Publicly expressing dislike for something is not the same as demanding that it be "fixed". I would personally like Bioware to change it, but saying this is like saying I would like to be given loads of money for doing nothing. It does not mean that I expect, or feel I have any right to it hapenning.

Sorry, but isn't the point of Take Back/Retake Mass Effect that they demand the ending be changed? That's what it says on their own page.

 

[floppylobster]

This is the problem when you give an 'adult' ending to a group of fans aged 15-25. The ending makes perfect sense and fits fine. Go out, live a little, come back 20 years from now and realize you can't actually change the world and all your choices were pretty much meaningless. You'll appreciate what they were trying to convey a whole lot more.

 

[SonicWaffle]

This is the problem when you give an 'adult' ending to a group of fans aged 15-25. The ending makes perfect sense and fits fine. Go out, live a little, come back 20 years from now and realize you can't actually change the world and all your choices were pretty much meaningless. You'll appreciate what they were trying to convey a whole lot more.

How horrendously bitter. I'm going to assume, for the sake of my own sanity, that you're joking. If you weren't, there's a big difference between "you can't change the world" and "An extremely charismatic leader with a long track record of achieving what was previously considered impossible can't change the world".

I'm just a dude. I most likely will never have any impact on the world at large, and my choices are meaningless to most people outside my sphere of influence. Commander Shepard is an entirely different matter - his (or her, I suppose, if you're that way inclined) choices do matter, and they do (or should) have major ramifications.

 

[Lyri]

Hi guys, remember me?
My name is Jim, you may remember me from such promises as "In Fable you can do anything you want!" and "In Fable 2, you can do whatever you want!" and my most popular works "In Fable 3 you can do what you want."
I may have slightly embellished my promises and built a franchise upon lies and disappointment but you guys still kept giving me money.
I only hurt you guys because I love you, I just want to be loved don't you see that? I say these sweet things and whisper promises into your ear and you repay me with adoration.
Oh I can't get enough of your attention, I would create for you and give you tantalising verbiage just so I could feel your warmth.

Your biggest fan,
Jim.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Hi guys, remember me?
My name is Jim, you may remember me from such promises as "In Fable you can do anything you want!" and "In Fable 2, you can do whatever you want!" and my most popular works "In Fable 3 you can do what you want."
I may have slightly embellished my promises and built a franchise upon lies and disappointment but you guys still kept giving me money.
I only hurt you guys because I love you, I just want to be loved don't you see that? I say these sweet things and whisper promises into your ear and you repay me with adoration.
Oh I can't get enough of your attention, I would create for you and give you tantalising verbiage just so I could feel your warmth.

Your biggest fan,
Jim.

...I don't recall his name being Jim?

 

[SonicWaffle]

My personal counter to those is "What does the kid reading Harry Potter in china think Harry Potter looks like? Probably Asian". We have complete freedom within the framework of set medium, but that doesn't it extends outside that.

Why would Asian kids assume that an English kid would be Asian? Ignoring the fact that they're more likely to picture Daniel Radcliffe, and that on most editions there are pictures of a speccy white kid on the cover, it doesn't really follow that they'd picture the hero as looking like them. If I read a book about an Asian person in China, I don't imagine them looking like me.

 

[Ironside]

honestly, this is tangentially related, I REALLY think they should go with the Indoctrination theory in their extended DLC.

From my time as a DM I have learned something very valuable, if your players come up with a much better and more interesting explanation or theory than yours, FUCKING STEAL IT. Pass it off as your own, they will never know! Take that ***** and RUN WITH IT!

Obviously I personally think the Indoctrination theory is awesome, so call me biased, but I think it would be an absolutely brilliant mechanic, the game would be indoctrinating not only the character, but also the PLAYER, that's amazing!

Indoctrination isn't the players theory though. In that final hours thing it says BW were planning on Shepard becoming indoctrinated at the end and the player losing control of his body. But they said it turned out to be too complex to implement and so didn't do it, which is probably why the indoctrination theory makes so much sense - they didnt bother changing the rest of the game to fit the new ending.

 

[ElPatron]

The whole controversy has been going on for a while now, regarding whether fans have any right to demand that a game (or any other work of art) ending be changed simply because they didn't like it.

Not a controversy at all, because works of art have been changed to cater to the audience for centuries, some people are just making an appeal to emotion to tell us that we have no rights after we pay 60? for a game.

...anyway my reasoning with the whole thing is that there is really nothing to be gained in NOT changing the ending due to "art"

Depends where you draw the line. Is it acceptable to paint over the Mona Lisa because you don't like her smile?

Bad analogy. Not only it's hard to compare a videogame being churned out (the ending almost proves it was rushed) to a work of art, but nobody is trying to kick down the Louvre's front door, break the protective polymer cover and spray paint the Mona Lisa.

We are trying to get the authors themselves to fix an actual flaw. Unless Mona Lisa was actually DaVinci in drag, the painting was probably ordered by someone paying for Leonardo's work.

People paid for Bioware's work. Why can't they ask for changes if la Gioconda probably asked for them too?

 

[ElPatron]

This is the problem when you give an 'adult' ending to a group of fans aged 15-25. The ending makes perfect sense and fits fine. Go out, live a little, come back 20 years from now and realize you can't actually change the world and all your choices were pretty much meaningless. You'll appreciate what they were trying to convey a whole lot more.

So pulling a character out of my ass, give him 14 lines of dialogue (completely against the "norms" if you can call them that), give a 90º turn on the plot after 3 games and just FORGET everything my main character fought for and the issues introduced in the plot...

... makes it an "adult" ending?

Nice logic bro. There are probably fanfics that must be more "adult" than Tolkien, Stephen Lawhead and Stephen King combined.

 

[Smeatza]

Bottom line is things were promised during development that were not delivered on.

So yes, you have a right to complain.

 

[Darkmantle]

honestly, this is tangentially related, I REALLY think they should go with the Indoctrination theory in their extended DLC.

From my time as a DM I have learned something very valuable, if your players come up with a much better and more interesting explanation or theory than yours, FUCKING STEAL IT. Pass it off as your own, they will never know! Take that ***** and RUN WITH IT!

Obviously I personally think the Indoctrination theory is awesome, so call me biased, but I think it would be an absolutely brilliant mechanic, the game would be indoctrinating not only the character, but also the PLAYER, that's amazing!

Indoctrination isn't the players theory though. In that final hours thing it says BW were planning on Shepard becoming indoctrinated at the end and the player losing control of his body. But they said it turned out to be too complex to implement and so didn't do it, which is probably why the indoctrination theory makes so much sense - they didnt bother changing the rest of the game to fit the new ending.

well if that's the case, then the ending isjust rushed garbage

colour me optimistic otherwise though, I kinda hope they back pedal on this

 

[Korolev]

My theory is that they simply ran out of time and endurance. They need to finish it up quick, and the grand plans they had for the ending were looking unfeasible and way too time consuming and expensive.

No doubt an EA suit, with his gelled hair, armani suit and sunglasses (which he wears while inside buildings) strutted into the building and said "Sup, NERDS, you gotta push that Maccy-fects 4 or whatever out now, or it's your ass! Papa needs a new ferrari, and my next promotion depends on our quarterly sales. So get it done, or a lot of you NERDS aren't going home with a job". Then he saunters out of the building, not before knocking the coffee off the desk of one of the lower programmers.

 

[Lyri]

Hi guys, remember me?
My name is Peter, you may remember me from such promises as "In Fable you can do anything you want!" and "In Fable 2, you can do whatever you want!" and my most popular works "In Fable 3 you can do what you want."
I may have slightly embellished my promises and built a franchise upon lies and disappointment but you guys still kept giving me money.
I only hurt you guys because I love you, I just want to be loved don't you see that? I say these sweet things and whisper promises into your ear and you repay me with adoration.
Oh I can't get enough of your attention, I would create for you and give you tantalising verbiage just so I could feel your warmth.

Your biggest fan,
Peter.

...I don't recall his name being Jim?

You know, that explains everything. I know a guy called Jim Molenyuex, that's why he kept appearing hahaa.
I'll fix that lol

 

[SonicWaffle]

I still don't see how not having played the game makes my opinion "worthless", though.

You can't judge something like this till you've seen it yourself. You proved as much in your OP.

Which would be a valid point, if I had been judging the ending rather than the behaviour of the fans. Not having seen it, I wasn't.

What I did was observe the reactions of some players and think that they were probably going too far, what with making demands for a new ending, threatening boycotts and so forth. Having now seen the ending, I have a better understanding of what motivated these actions, though I still do not entirely agree with them.

Savvy?

 

[The Human Torch]

Ill say this, out of the 3 choices you make 1 of them actually sort of corresponds to the "only" ending that the game has. If you chose to hybridise artificial and organic life the ending sort of makes sense. However if you chose either of the other options then the ending makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So there is 1/3 chance that you will walk away not quite impressed but not terribly displeased.

Its not until you go back and find out that all 3 endings are completely the same that you feel like you have been wronged by Bioware/EA. The fact that there are 3 different coloured explosions just feels like a huge spit in the face.

I could go on and on about how the choices you made in earlier games never really amounted to much, but all I would really want out of a fixed ending is to see what happened to all the people we saved, and how they try to get back on their feet. You chose to settle the dispute between quarians and the geth? .. I want to SEE that! .. I want to see them working together to build a peaceful existence at the end. What happened to the council? What happened to all your Squadmates who were not on the Normandy?

All they need to do is add half a dozen or so cutscenes to show us some aftermath, they dont actually need to CHANGE anything .. they just to need to actually MAKE the ending!

I would like to go into this for a bit, so the following text is ONE GREAT BIG MASSIVE SPOILER!!!!!!

AGAIN, MASSIVE SPOILER INCOMING!!!!!!

Spoiler

To me the red a.k.a. destroy all synthetic life is the only right option. I mean, you were being indoctrinated ever since Mass Effect 1, and only in part 3, with all the personal trauma going on, is it starting to have effect. I.E.: the boy who you first see in the air duct and later gets shot down in the beginning of Mass Effect 3. The same boy who turns out to be this 'Star Child'. It's all bullplop.

It's the Harbinger, from start to finish, he works on Sheppard in such a way that eventually Sheppard has no choice but to follow Star Child's insane rant at the ending, and only presents him with 3 options, all of them bad to a certain degree.

The Blue option gives you control over the Reapers, but you die, so you are vaporised. So basically you play right into the Harbinger's hands by doing this.

The Green option fuses biology with synthetics and again, you let the Reapers win. Not only do they life, but now everything is part Reaper. Everyone will be indoctrinated.

The Red option destroys all synthetic life, arguably also the Geth, but this (to me) is the only real "let's save all life" option. The Reapers are destroyed, all other life remains and thusly you are freed from indoctrination and (assuming you did everything perfectly), you get the shot of Sheppard's body down on Earth, gasping for air.

Granted, none of the 3 options take away any of the glaring plotholes, which are the bane of any ME3 player. Way too much stuff is unexplained. My advice for those who want the best and most positive ending, would be: Take the Red option and hope that the coming DLC will actually explain what the fuck is going on.

 

[Sandytimeman]

Personally I don't think they should change the ending. Don't get me wrong I hated it, but if thats the kind of product they put all their effort into I don't want to be a customer anymore.

I enjoyed the bioware products I had up until the very very ending of ME3. If they turn it around I'll give em another try but as of now I currently avoid bioware products.

Not sure how they can turn it around without retcons. All they can do is expand on something people hate, but people will likely be just as pissed off about retcons.

No I mean turn it around as a company. I've lost all my investment in the ME3 universe.