Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers

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Lugbzurg

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Zhukov said:
Lugbzurg said:
What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?
Presumably the people doing the freaking care more about Mass Effect than Sonic.

Besides, it's not like Sonic fans have never freaked out over the various transgressions of their series. In fact, they seem to be freaking more often than not.
You just completely forgot the part where you quoted me saying that this has happened GOBS of times, with no mention whatsoever of Sonic in the quote.

Also, I only brought up that one Sonic game to prove a point. Why did Mass Effect 3 get torn down for breaking that one "promise", while Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was completely ignored for breaking GOBS of "promises"?
 

Screamarie

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I'm kind of a newcomer to Bioware love. Names like Jade Empire and Baldur's Gate mean little to me more than "previous Bioware titles." I didn't find out about Bioware really well until Mass Effect 2 (which led me to ME1 and DA:Origins and Awakening. I'm buying Dragon Age 2 the first of June, when I get money).

So when it came to Mass Effect 3 I was hurt. Not massively depressed of course, but I was severely let down and I didn't understand why Bioware, usually beacons of good writing, could allow...that...to grace my screen. Considering that I was a fairly new Bioware lover, I have to think that long-time worshippers felt WAY worse than I did. I'm not justifying some of that crap (I believe there were death threats...yeah that shit wasn't called for), but I understood and symapthized with the outrage and agreed that, while it wasn't required of Bioware, it would be a good idea for them to either change or add to or do SOMETHING with that ending.

But at this point I've put it behind me as best that I can. For the most part I just try to say that, if accusations can be believed, Casey Hudson will take this as a lesson to not let his little brain children toddle off without him and peer review.

It's left a bitter taste in my mouth a bit, I cry a little inside when I think of it, I hold out hope that the "Extended Cut" will offer something to ease the pain...like whiskey or morphine...and I'm trying to move on.
 

Don Savik

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Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
 

Lugbzurg

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Don Savik said:
Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
"Games are not art"?

Erm. Ok. Better remove all films, novels, songs, paintings, sculptures, and all other forms of creative expressions from "art", and see what we're left with.
 

psijac

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kman123 said:
I'm with you. At this point in time I simply do not give a shit anymore. The damage has been done. I've lost interest in anything Bioware has to make from here on out.
I want EA's stock to do a facebook
 

Radox Redux

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Am I the only one who didn't really care about the Catalyst and it's logic? I thought the ending sucked because you arrived at it with no choice/variation having any effect and everybody effectively losing (on an individual level).

It undermines the entire series (including the first 95% of ME3), meaning I can never play the games again as anything over than an apathetic nihilist. If the Catalyst's logic and space-magic solution worked fine, it still wouldn't fix that.
 

Don Savik

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Lugbzurg said:
Don Savik said:
Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
"Games are not art"?

Erm. Ok. Better remove all films, novels, songs, paintings, sculptures, and all other forms of creative expressions from "art", and see what we're left with.
What I'm saying is its not an excuse. I didn't like the ending, and them going "oooooh but its art" doesn't mean anything. Since I don't like it AND its art then all negativity and criticism is invalid? It's an excuse that is going to become more and more popular as video gaming grows. Doesn't mean they should change anything, its just an "artistic" decision in the series that everyone hated.
 

SilverBullets000

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I'll be honest, I didn't buy ME3 because of Javik. I thought the guy would've had a much bigger role in the game. He didn't, so it made my passing up the game a little more silly. I still stand by it, as he's a freaking prothean, but I am happy that he was only a small part of the game.
The fact that the game's ending felt-I'm sorry-was thrown together and half-assed only made me more upset about the game. I won't say we should be able to demand it to be changed, but there's nothing wrong with asking for it to be. Especially considering that every ending is reminiscent of a 90's grimdarkgritty comic book. No, I didn't want it to be unicorns and rainbows, but I didn't want the whole universe to be fucked over either.
The "Buy moar DLC, guies!" at the end was definetly the final straw for me, though.

Anyway, thank you for apologizing OP. Yes, some people were acting rather spoiled about it, but there were others who were actually trying to be civil and intelligent.
 

Darkmantle

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honestly, this is tangentially related, I REALLY think they should go with the Indoctrination theory in their extended DLC.

From my time as a DM I have learned something very valuable, if your players come up with a much better and more interesting explanation or theory than yours, FUCKING STEAL IT. Pass it off as your own, they will never know! Take that ***** and RUN WITH IT!

Obviously I personally think the Indoctrination theory is awesome, so call me biased, but I think it would be an absolutely brilliant mechanic, the game would be indoctrinating not only the character, but also the PLAYER, that's amazing!
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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The main, key point I think of this whole debacle was that it was Mass Effect. The single most continuous series I've ever seen of video games (I don't know much of the history, but I'm pretty sure, maybe the Witcher), players were ensured that the choices that were carried across every game would have consequences in the end. And to keep people interested, they actually did, although somewhat superficially overall, I remember discussing with friends that the payoffs we'd all be waiting for would come at the end. And Bioware squandered this one chance. How many other games have ever done, or will do for quite some time, what Mass Effect promised? Bioware had the chance to make good on a gaming phenomenon and instead opted to make a quite frankly uncreative and stupid ending(s). If it's meant to be making a point, I don't care, I didn't play one game multiple times and many others two games multiple times to see someone make a point. If it's just time considerations and laziness, perhaps that would be a bit more excusable, speaking as someone who has experienced laziness but never the need to ruin something over a trivial matter. I don't think the ending even can be changed now, whether or not it should, to show the full effect that player choices should have had. But I lament what it could have been. As far as I'm concerned, the thoroughly thought-out context was the only other thing the game did really well. Appearance customisation wasn't that good, animation was at points unexpectedly bad, the class system was alright actually, I'll give them that, but no points for cover based shooting with the Force involved. The dialogue and assurance that choices mattered was really the only other thing I played the game for.

tl;dr yes I mad. I don't necessarily think the ending should be changed, I just think that everyone should have a chance to return the game for a full refund.

EDIT: Oh and as for the whole games-are-art thing, I don't even think some abstract paintings are art to be honest, but my feelings are when a game is developed with influence from anyone other than a central team or single person (like a publisher for example), it ceases to be art because it ceases to have a defined purpose. Heavily monetised games, for example, I do not consider art. Although, I can accept it being art as long as people then distinguish between good art and shitty art.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Lugbzurg said:
Zhukov said:
Lugbzurg said:
What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?
Presumably the people doing the freaking care more about Mass Effect than Sonic.

Besides, it's not like Sonic fans have never freaked out over the various transgressions of their series. In fact, they seem to be freaking more often than not.
You just completely forgot the part where you quoted me saying that this has happened GOBS of times, with no mention whatsoever of Sonic in the quote.

Also, I only brought up that one Sonic game to prove a point. Why did Mass Effect 3 get torn down for breaking that one "promise", while Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was completely ignored for breaking GOBS of "promises"?
People clearly cared more about ME3 than whatever games you're thinking of that they failed to rage about.

Also, isn't Sonic 2006 generally considered to be a terrible game? I haven't played it myself, but every mention of it makes it sound like crap. The closest I've seen to a positive comment is something along the lines of, "That one level wasn't so bad..."
 

SonicWaffle

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Professor Putricide said:
His name was Marauder Shields. And he tried to stop you. D:
Yeah, I saw that meme. Made me chuckle :)

Professor Putricide said:
As someone who's also recently beaten the game, I can say I'm at least curious to see what happens next. I wasn't happy with the ending, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't wanting to see what they throw out there. I don't want them to fix it, but I do kinda care to see what they put out there to clarify it.
It seems to me like any attempt to explain it further is just going to make things worse. Unless they write it off as a dream, or indoctrination, it'll be a god damn mess. I'm betting that they'll "clarify" things, and it'll leave us more confused and annoyed about the matter.

Look at shit with a magnifying glass, it's still shit. You can just see it with more clarity :p
 

SonicWaffle

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MeChaNiZ3D said:
Appearance customisation wasn't that good, animation was at points unexpectedly bad, the class system was alright actually, I'll give them that, but no points for cover based shooting with the Force involved. The dialogue and assurance that choices mattered was really the only other thing I played the game for.
Speaking of the animation, I had a weird bug where in some cutscenes/conversations, Garrus (and only Garrus) would be invisible. Throws you off your stride a bit when everyone keeps addressing comments to empty air...

MeChaNiZ3D said:
tl;dr yes I mad. I don't necessarily think the ending should be changed, I just think that everyone should have a chance to return the game for a full refund.
I dunno about that. I mean, most people seem to have enjoyed the game up until it took a nosedive in the final ten minutes. Seems a bit petty to return a game because you only got 30 hours of fun from it.
 

Sandytimeman

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Jan 14, 2011
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Personally I don't think they should change the ending. Don't get me wrong I hated it, but if thats the kind of product they put all their effort into I don't want to be a customer anymore.

I enjoyed the bioware products I had up until the very very ending of ME3. If they turn it around I'll give em another try but as of now I currently avoid bioware products.
 

SonicWaffle

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SilverBullets000 said:
The "Buy moar DLC, guies!" at the end was definetly the final straw for me, though.
That actually shocked me. I watched through the ending video with the sad/dramatic music, the credits with the epic music, the final scene that tried to remind you just how "legendary" your experience has been, and then...pop. Hey kids, don't forget to buy some stuff! They condensed the entire, trilogy-spanning story into "Shepard beat the Reapers and became a legend".

MeChaNiZ3D said:
Anyway, thank you for apologizing OP. Yes, some people were acting rather spoiled about it, but there were others who were actually trying to be civil and intelligent.
Unfortunately I didn't see many of those guys, as I was trying to avoid spoilers, and the people who went into detail rather than screaming that BioWare were "dirty Jewfags" and such would generally be discussing the plot in detail. As such I was mostly exposed to the ranting dickheads.
 

SonicWaffle

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Sandytimeman said:
Personally I don't think they should change the ending. Don't get me wrong I hated it, but if thats the kind of product they put all their effort into I don't want to be a customer anymore.

I enjoyed the bioware products I had up until the very very ending of ME3. If they turn it around I'll give em another try but as of now I currently avoid bioware products.
Not sure how they can turn it around without retcons. All they can do is expand on something people hate, but people will likely be just as pissed off about retcons.
 

SonicWaffle

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Radox Redux said:
Am I the only one who didn't really care about the Catalyst and it's logic? I thought the ending sucked because you arrived at it with no choice/variation having any effect and everybody effectively losing (on an individual level).
That's a big part of the problem, sure.

Radox Redux said:
It undermines the entire series (including the first 95% of ME3), meaning I can never play the games again as anything over than an apathetic nihilist. If the Catalyst's logic and space-magic solution worked fine, it still wouldn't fix that.
Huh. I hadn't thought of that - were BioWare trying to teach us that we are small and insignificant in the scheme of things, and that however hard we work nothing we do will matter? Ouch. Harsh life lessons from a video game!
 

SonicWaffle

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Don Savik said:
Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game.
And video games can be art. It's a little worrying that people still think there's a debate to be had there. There isn't.

Don Savik said:
More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
Clearly they do, though. Otherwise they wouldn't be releasing the Extended Cut DLC, would they?

Consumer pressure changes the behaviour of the company selling the product. If they "don't give 2 shits" about loyal customers or making products that people like, then as a company they are going to do poorly. A business which doesn't listen to the consumers at all is a dumb business.
 

SonicWaffle

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
SonicWaffle said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Looks like we had another Andy Chalk here. Don't play Mass Effect 3 but give your opinion anyway, no matter how worthless it is!

Oh well.
Erm...did you not read the OP, or something?
Note the word "had" for your answer.
Duly noted.

I still don't see how not having played the game makes my opinion "worthless", though. I can't comment on the behaviour of others unless I've experienced what they have for myself?