South Korea Discovers StarCraft Addiction Drug
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
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I do not think that "videogame addiction" is a serious issue but a societal scapegoat as people used to make the same arguements about "Rock and Roll", "Comic Books", and "Heavy Metal" at various times. Society and life blows chips, people seek escapism, people will blame anything to avoid having to deal with the real issues.
That said people are not all that complicated when you get down to it, with the right drugs and psychology techniques you can pretty much get people to do anything. Six months of illegal (or at least inhumane) deprogramming techniques and you could not only "cure" someone of playing video games, but condition them to collapse into a quivering pile at the sight of a zergling on a screen... and also do almost ANYTHING to avoing coming in contact with video games.
Of course using the same kinds of brainwashing you could also probably turn the guy into glorified zombie slave labour, or convince him he's a glass of orange juice (to use an old urban legend).
That said people are not all that complicated when you get down to it, with the right drugs and psychology techniques you can pretty much get people to do anything. Six months of illegal (or at least inhumane) deprogramming techniques and you could not only "cure" someone of playing video games, but condition them to collapse into a quivering pile at the sight of a zergling on a screen... and also do almost ANYTHING to avoing coming in contact with video games.
Of course using the same kinds of brainwashing you could also probably turn the guy into glorified zombie slave labour, or convince him he's a glass of orange juice (to use an old urban legend).
Plenty of that sort of stuff happens well away from gaming or other substance abuses.Keava said:
Yeah, not convinced by the AA lot either. See Penn and Teller's Bullshit! for reasons (Basically recovery rate is 5%, natural recovery rate is....5%)
What AA does well is provide a group of friends, the lack of which often drives people to abuse.
Can I suggest that love and sex would have an equally unbalanced list?
The problem with addiction, as I argued back here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.200945-Ask-Dr-Mark-1#6748504], is that defining it as "due to gaming" is impossible for two main reasons:
1) You can't take away the other things that might be affecting them, where gaming may be the release.
2) Gaming doesn't actually alter the physical make-up.
Substance abuse has been known about for sometime, but Gaming has no bodily changes that can't be replicated by numerous other "non-addictive" pass-times.
That and the fact that I've seen this "behaviour" been pointed to comics, rock and roll, video nasties, and every other "teenage" activity since teenagers were invented.
I can see how someone could be "addicted to games", but I'm not sure if it wouldn't just be an addiction that releases itself in games, because games are such different pieces of work. You wouldn't expect someone to be addicted to Flower, for instance, but they could be addicted to the feeling of release. That's where I think the big distinction is, and that distinction could carry over to anything, even knitting.
Edit : Oooh, I'm a Noble Laureate now. There's lovely.
2nd Edit: Even if it is a form of OCD, treating it with anti-depressants is a very dangerous risk.
Perhaps there is hope for the World Of Warcraft addicts of the world. Interesting and informative. Thanks.
They're heading in the wrong direction. Giving medication to someone with a psychological addiction to something is only going to cause more problems.
And it's called as state of addiction in case of those substances.The_root_of_all_evil said:
Those number say nothing really because they can't show the recovery rate among overall alcoholic population without AA influence. Playing with numbers is fun way to show the reality as you want others to see it, but has little bearing on facts.
Sure, if your sex-life interferes with the rest of your life on such level you actually loose parts of your life because it it means you are doing it wrong. Point stands.
So in your mind, addiction to gambling is just same, abstractive idea that has no place in reality only because it is not tied to any voluntary substance usage, that affects your brain in direct way ?
Whenever we feel happy/good it means our brain produced certain amount of dopmain and serotonin, which are affecting our feeling of enjoyment. Most drugs that cause euphoric states tend to affect the parts of brain producing those two enzymes, causing increased levels of it being emitted through your neural system.
Sure at this point of science we can't really be sure whenever we can blame extensive and obsessive gaming for changes in our neural system or are those thing unrelated and caused by other stimulants, but thats what for are tests and projects like the one described in the article. Science is a process.
Mood swings are not clinical condition either, but a few steps a little further and you suddenly get bi-polar depression or borderline personality disorder. Human psyche is a very fragile construction.
"Away from"Keava said:
I'd be inclined to disagree, there are numerous facilities that don't use the AA model.
Unfair. And slightly derogatory.
Then 90% of teenagers are addicted, 'coz I don't know a single teen who hasn't done something REALLY stupid for the boy/girl of their dreams.
Nope, because - as I explained later [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.200945.6853242] - gambling isn't the addiction, gaining money is. There's the OCD part, to compete. That's not an addiction in the clinical sense because you're enacting a primal need, rather than an addiction which is repeating behaviour against your way of life (as you say above).
But it doesn't mean that feeling happy is an addiction, otherwise you're condemning living as an addiction, which brings up a whole host of philosophical problems.
Agreed, and it rests on balancing stress versus relaxation. The stress that drives us - versus the rest we need to regenerate. Now, if you're denying the latter via drugs, but keeping the former - what do you think will happen?
Cognitive therapy can treat the OCD, but pharmaceutical therapy will actually cause the addiction to take place where it wasn't before. It's like people who take Ventalin develop asthma because their body becomes dependent on that.
Like I said before, there are numerous non-gaming/non-substance passtimes (especially among hormone-ridden teens) that boost seratonin/dopamine levels (Chocolate for one) without allowing the catharsis which depletes them. May I humbly suggest that what the Koreans seem to be doing is prescribing something like Ritalin for kids who just like bouncing about.
I've got a better idea. Feed them hallucinogens and make them play. After they start experiencing synesthesia and the Overmind actually talking to them, they'll freak out and stop playing. Either that or form an actual religion based on shrooms and Starcraft, but oh well, gotta take the bad with the good. Now here's the question: which is which?
I call BS on this, as I stated earlier with another poster [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.227109-South-Korea-Discovers-StarCraft-Addiction-Drug#7785570].The_root_of_all_evil said:
Video game addiction is just as serious as any other addiction. You feel a high after taking down the difficult boss and keep playing the game and other games in hopes of getting the high again. In healthy doses, it's perfectly normal, we all want to escape, which is how addictions can start. But too much of a "good" thing goes rotten.
There's a difference between regular "teenage" activity, and activity in addiction levels. Don't try pointing to other "devil's media!" that were blamed, that is not applied here. Even the crazy, anti-video game/comic/r+r people makes points sometimes, and that point is that if not consumed in a proper manner, it's harmful to you, as well as anything else.
You just contradicted yourself here, you said that because there's no "physical dependency" on video games that means there's no addiction, but now you're saying that addiction qualities are present that can alter the brain.
Overall, I'm not sure where you're stance is exactly. Can you clarify please?
Called puberty, unless they're "doin' it" 24/7, I doubt they're addicted.The_root_of_all_evil said:
And you gain money by gambling....I don't see your point here. It's the thrill of getting that jackpot, once you got a good hand you're hoping the next one will be just as good, getting more. It's the adrenaline of losing everything in one hand or gaining millions in the next. Then, as time goes on, you'll just keep spending money on gambling hoping that this one time will be the last one, landing you big.
No no, you're missing his point. It's the constant release of the endorphins and crap that makes our brain dependent on it, that's how many drugs work. It's the initial high that you keep striving for, but you need more to get the same high. A healthy person would be able to control those certain urges, addicted people just have to get that high.
Yes, and all of them can be addictive if consumed improperly. I agree on your overall point, the medicine that South Korea is developing may be overkill, but it's still in the testing phase as far as I know. For people who are really, truly addicted, and need help, that's what we have prescriptions for.
When they test more then 11 people Ill be interested. But honestly, this is science, test hundreds, write what you found out, then test a hundred more.
dont start making claims on 11 people
dont start making claims on 11 people
Nowadays, people make pills for everything, even thought having much more serious problems on their hands.
Goddam, I want to go to bed.
Gaming can be addictive because it sets off endorphin/dopamine release. This isn't addiction but normal reaction to something that excites/intrigues us. It's the same way we feel when Mum gives us a hug or we get a really good burger.
People with a mental disorder can focus on gaming in the same way they can focus on the Bible, the works of Elvis or dressing up as a fox. That's not due to gaming.(equally, you can focus on them without having a mental condition: Grief, I loathe PC at times)
IF (and only if) there's a condition which activates when brought into contact with the lights/sounds/excitement levels of the games, it's still not an addiction but an obsessive-compulsive disorder, which can't be treated with the use of anti-depressants.
Overall, you can turn these kids into zombies to stop them playing games, but you're just turning them into zombies who can't play games, not kids who don't want to play any more. And you're doing a lot more damage to their systems than just leaving them alone to discover the joys outside gaming for themselves.
Furthermore, there's some people whose only means of expression are games as Russ Pitts kindly pointed out. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/smile_nod/7940-Smile-and-Nod-RealID-and-Why-Hate-Speech-is-the-Least-of-Our-Worries]
Treating gaming as an addiction just sweeps away the real addicts and the people who just want to play in one foul swoop, while ignoring some of the conditions that cause them to become "addicted".
Flu can, Alcohol can, the Thyroid gland (Puberty) can. Gaming can't. Just physically impossible.
Counter: I never said gaming couldn't be addictive, I said it couldn't be an addiction. It can be an Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder that manifests as gaming, but it can't addict due to not having a substance that alters the way the brain works.Jumplion said:
Hold on there Reverend, each of those has been linked to addiction, devil worship and anti-social behaviour in the past. Water - when not consumed in the proper manner can kill - in fact it did. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7779079.stm] More than once. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16614865/]
Not a contradiction as I explain above, addiction can take place because there are some people - already with a mental disorder - who can focus in on games becoming "addicted" - fulfilling their own physical dependency, but the addiction isn't due to the gaming; that's the release/catharsis. If it wasn't a game, it could be anything else.
Ok, and this is definitely my last post until tomorrow afternoon on this.
Gaming can be addictive because it sets off endorphin/dopamine release. This isn't addiction but normal reaction to something that excites/intrigues us. It's the same way we feel when Mum gives us a hug or we get a really good burger.
People with a mental disorder can focus on gaming in the same way they can focus on the Bible, the works of Elvis or dressing up as a fox. That's not due to gaming.(equally, you can focus on them without having a mental condition: Grief, I loathe PC at times)
IF (and only if) there's a condition which activates when brought into contact with the lights/sounds/excitement levels of the games, it's still not an addiction but an obsessive-compulsive disorder, which can't be treated with the use of anti-depressants.
Overall, you can turn these kids into zombies to stop them playing games, but you're just turning them into zombies who can't play games, not kids who don't want to play any more. And you're doing a lot more damage to their systems than just leaving them alone to discover the joys outside gaming for themselves.
Furthermore, there's some people whose only means of expression are games as Russ Pitts kindly pointed out. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/smile_nod/7940-Smile-and-Nod-RealID-and-Why-Hate-Speech-is-the-Least-of-Our-Worries]
Treating gaming as an addiction just sweeps away the real addicts and the people who just want to play in one foul swoop, while ignoring some of the conditions that cause them to become "addicted".
Seriously, no they don't. Constant release is only due to an imbalance in the brain chemicals which gaming, gambling, knitting or extreme ironing simply can't do. No physical carrier.
Flu can, Alcohol can, the Thyroid gland (Puberty) can. Gaming can't. Just physically impossible.
The point is that actually you frequently don't stop taking it, because if you do, you stop feeling better. Less so with depression, which often isn't recurring, but for things that are generally lifelong like bipolar disorder, it's a fairly common problem that people will take the medication, feel better for a while, decide they don't need it, stop taking it, and relapse. Some people will stick with it from when they first start, some people will take several failures after thinking they feel better, and some of them never learn (and sometimes people will even stop taking them and never get worse again, but it's pretty much impossible to tell ahead of time which people will fall into that category and/or how long it will last).samsonguy920 said:
While some types of therapy are often used to treat OCD with a good deal of success, probably the most common and successfully used medications to treat it are...anti-depressants. Not bupropion, though. It seems to generally respond best to SSRIs and a few other things that act on a certain subset of serotonin receptors.The_root_of_all_evil said:
