Space Marine Dev Not Worried about Gears Comparisons

[Thaluikhain]

What a load of bull-shit. Huge, steaming piles of Orky Bull-Shit. How is this anything like Gears? Because its 3rd person and has a chain saw related weapon? Because that is literally where the comparison ends. Its like saying COD is a rip off of Halo because both are first person shooters and have grenades.

Well...it shouldn't be the same, but that doesn't mean it isn't. For all we know it's little more than a mod with 40k graphics...unlikely, but until the game comes out, it's hard to say. They could totally cock the backstory up...people often do with marines, they are rather alien.

if the tau were anything it would be space Chinese

Um, why?

I know people see "greater good" and equate it to communism, but working towards some kind of "greater good" is the basis of any stable society ever. It's even brought up in Kill-Team, people recognise that devoting yourself to the greater good for everyone isn't much difference to devoting yourself to the Emperor who ensures the greatest good for everyone in the species.

Additionally...the Tau have an unbreakable caste system, which is in total opposition to communism.

Going back a bit...Eldar used to be very space-elf...they even called orks "space orc/ks" way back when. Eldar have evolved a bit though.

 

[Weaver]

Since I'm apparently the only Relic and Warhammer fanboy who follows development I want to clear things up for people:

1) It's called "Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine". This title might seem generic to people who are unfamiliar with WH40k, but Space Marines are a group of genetically altered super humans in power armor. It's been this way since Games Workshop created Warhammer 40,000 in 1987. And yes, they copied the idea from Starship Troopers (the book).

2) There will be important differences between this and other 3rd person shooters. They really wanted to achieve a fluid and fun transitioning between melee and ranged combat, with lots of effort to make both of them rewarding and fun. Considering 40k's love of amazing melee weapons (they were the first to do the chain sword, power fist, etc.) it's vitally important they get this right.

3) There will NOT be cover in Space Marine. That is, there will not be sticky cover you snap to and pop your head over the wall. Relic said they even implemented this during test runs and found they disliked the way it made the player sort of meander. You're an 8 foot tall, genetically modified human in power armor that can, fluff wise, pretty much stop a tank shell. They figured, hell, you shouldn't need cover!

Considering my disdain for cover based shooters, this is music to my ears.

 

[Irridium]

Besides, the best way to avoid ripping off Gears is to avoid the temptation to make every possible landscape a chest high wall farm. And lay off the grunting.

Edit: Damn, ninja'ed!

Shouldn't be too hard.

If a Space Marine took cover, he would be shot by his own side for cowardice.

 

[Weaver]

Since I'm apparently the only Relic and Warhammer fanboy who follows development I want to clear things up for people:

And yes, they copied the idea from Starship Troopers (the book).

Mock me unrelentingly for this, but starship troopers was a book?! It any good?
I had no idea that the film wasnt the original incarnation.

I've actually never read it, but I've heard it's almost entirely different from the movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

What I do know is that it pioneered a lot of the "millitary space marine" iconography we've come to love. Even Aliens borrowed heavily from it's terminology and ideas.

 

[alittlepepper]

Mmm...not necessarily. You could theoretically take cover in Dawn of War 2. It's just that Thule always tended to stomp through it and destroy it before you actually got any use out of it. <_< Anyway, getting off topic now.

 

[Eldarion]

Shouldn't it be Gears getting compared to Warhammer? They sure as shit didn't invent burly men fucking up insectoid things. Or chainsaw attachments.

Exactly. Warhammer is a lot older than most people think it is.

 

[WolfLordAndy]

I'm still waiting on my MMORPGFPS for 40k... or rather Necromunda... its the perfect setting for such a genre!

if the tau were anything it would be space Chinese

Um, why?

I know people see "g
reater good" and equate it to communism, but working towards some kind of "greater good" is the basis of any stable society ever. It's even brought up in Kill-Team, people recognise that devoting yourself to the greater good for everyone isn't much difference to devoting yourself to the Emperor who ensures the greatest good for everyone in the species.

Additionally...the Tau have an unbreakable caste system, which is in total opposition to communism.

Going back a bit...Eldar used to be very space-elf...they even called orks "space orc/ks" way back when. Eldar have evolved a bit though.

Pretty sure that Eldar were infact originally called Space Elves (back in Rogue Traders days). 40k was a basic developement into sci-fi based off of the success of the WH games, with Eldar, Orks, Squats (space dwarfs), Ratlings (Space Hobbits), etc.

As for Tau, I'd say calling them chinese is probably closest to what you could get. While they don't have an official cast system in China, its very likely that if you're born to a farmer, you'll end up as a farmer all your life. Of course, the art style is basicly Japanese anime/mechs...

 

[Buizel91]

Shouldn't it be Gears getting compared to Space Marines? The Space Marines cannot be done differently, however Marcus Fenix and Dom could of...The Space Marines were always Bulky with barely any emotion.

Some people need to do research on Space Marines before they complain...

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

However, you should be throttled for coining the term "Space Elf". They're not bloody space elves. They are Eldar: The futuristic re-imagining of the a-typical fantasy elf. Pedantic I know - but space elf seems condescending. Its not like you called the Tau: Space Japs.

[img alt=This is clearly an elf that is also in space.]http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/Dark-Millennium.jpg[/img]​

What, seriously? You think that Logan coined the term "Space Elf"? People have been referring to them as such for bloody years, that's hardly a condescending label that you can attribute to Mr. Westbrook. Sure, I'll be the first to point out that Eldar have more going for their background these days than simply "Elves in Spaaaaaaace!", but seriously, just look at them! There's a reason people keep referring to them as Space Elves.

The Tau on the other hand lack noses, bleed cyan-colored blood, and have hooves - the last time I checked none of those traits described the Japanese. Sure, their battlesuits and ship designs are clearly inspired by Japanese anime, but the Tau themselves are almost nothing like the Japanese - there just isn't any direct analog for the Tau in other fictional settings (which doesn't stop people from calling them "Space Commies" though).

 

[Thaluikhain]

Sweet, see I always assumed that Aliens was the basis for the whole space marine thing.

Well, pointing at one thing and saying "this is where it all began" is a bit iffy.

Bit of trivia, when they made the Aliens boardgame, they had to get GW's permission to call the troops "space marines", cause GW copyrighted it. [small]I'd like to think NASA can't get marine pilots as astronauts because of this[/small]

Pretty sure that Eldar were infact originally called Space Elves (back in Rogue Traders days). 40k was a basic developement into sci-fi based off of the success of the WH games, with Eldar, Orks, Squats (space dwarfs), Ratlings (Space Hobbits), etc.

Don't forget "ogryns" for "ogres". Oh, and then you have things which are flat out in both, the Chaos and Eldar gods (not quite the same thing, but close), the Old Ones, the Slann, Zoats, Sigmar/Gilles le Breton/The Shadowlord/Nagash/Magnus were lost primarchs etc.

As for Tau, I'd say calling them chinese is probably closest to what you could get. While they don't have an official cast system in China, its very likely that if you're born to a farmer, you'll end up as a farmer all your life.

Well, by that logic they are "feudal society X"...you might want to go for India, but I'd prefer to say that the Tau aren't "society X cut and pasted", they've had some amount of creativity, or at least borrowing from more than one source.

 

[Buizel91]

So long as the game is fun to play, it can be compared to Super Mario Bros. for all I care.

That's a scary...scary thought...

Mario in Marine armour...jumping for coins and smashing through floating blocks. Jumping on orks and killing them...and riding a Carnifex called Yoshi...

Actually, that would be pretty cool

Someone create this!!!

 

[Slim-Shot]

Well, I mean, obviously since 40k is an extension of Warhammer Fantasy, there are a lot of crossovers. Eldar are effectively space elves... Except they're not - they're Eldar. Calling them space elves just makes 40k sound like its played by a pack of poofs.

 

[Irridium]

Since I'm apparently the only Relic and Warhammer fanboy who follows development I want to clear things up for people:

And yes, they copied the idea from Starship Troopers (the book).

Mock me unrelentingly for this, but starship troopers was a book?! It any good?
I had no idea that the film wasnt the original incarnation.

I've actually never read it, but I've heard it's almost entirely different from the movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers

What I do know is that it pioneered a lot of the "millitary space marine" iconography we've come to love. Even Aliens borrowed heavily from it's terminology and ideas.

It is. I read the book before the movie, and well I expected the movie to be like the book. It was not.

For example, in the movie the infantry are like any other soldier. In the book, they're power-armor wielding badasses of death.

Plot is the same, but how its told is way different.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I like the fact there is no usable cover. You just smash through it.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Aside from all the Gears borrowing from 40k lore in the first place, as someone who has actually seen the game played (at Games Day, September 2010), it doesn't play much like Gears at all anyway. The Hunky 3rd person aspect is about where it ends. Gears was all about using cover (Chest High Walls), and not getting hit too much (as far as I can recall, you weren't a walking army). In Space Marine...well, this will probably make the game sound unchallenging (which it didn't look), but SHEESH. They stuck to the damn fluff with this one, and from what I've seen, that's a damn fine decision. In the section I saw they were fighting Orks. And it was amazing. They were in an underground sewer complex, and the Space Marine's footsteps thudded around that shit like only a tonne of bioengineered adamantium-clad goodness could. The bolter rounds actually fucking exploded, which looked freaking awesome (especially the headshot on a particularly unfortunate gretchin). Combat looked like a 40k nut's dream, (nerdgasms ensued), the chainsaw hacking off limbs, and having some extraordinarily satisfying flourish kills (of course someone's gonna draw a comparison with a 'boot crushing someone's head' scenario, but we can't have everything. However the other's, well, FUCK YEAHHHH. Stabbing an ork with your chainsword, and then stabbing it into a wall and letting it slide down it getting torn in half while you turn and gun down his friends before yanking it out and chasing down those that escaped? Colour me exited.

Now, my eloquence has been severely dampened by this, and if I come across as an overexited fanboy, fuck it, I am. Some details may have been exaggerated by the ecstatic euphoria I was under at the time (I'm pretty sure they haven't, but I gotta cover my arse somehow).

And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolter...

 

[Irridium]

And the changes made to all of the characters is just plain disgraceful. After i read the book i just could not stand the thought that i liked that movie at one point. All the characters are moved around, good deal of concepts, just makes it weird.

I know. When I watched the movie I couldn't stop going "The hell? Thats not how it happened!"

 

[Cpt Corallis]

Aside from all the Gears borrowing from 40k lore in the first place, as someone who has actually seen the game played (at Games Day, September 2010), it doesn't play much like Gears at all anyway. The Hunky 3rd person aspect is about where it ends. Gears was all about using cover (Chest High Walls), and not getting hit too much (as far as I can recall, you weren't a walking army). In Space Marine...well, this will probably make the game sound unchallenging (which it didn't look), but SHEESH. They stuck to the damn fluff with this one, and from what I've seen, that's a damn fine decision. In the section I saw they were fighting Orks. And it was amazing. They were in an underground sewer complex, and the Space Marine's footsteps thudded around that shit like only a tonne of bioengineered adamantium-clad goodness could. The bolter rounds actually fucking exploded, which looked freaking awesome (especially the headshot on a particularly unfortunate gretchin). Combat looked like a 40k nut's dream, (nerdgasms ensued), the chainsaw hacking off limbs, and having some extraordinarily satisfying flourish kills (of course someone's gonna draw a comparison with a 'boot crushing someone's head' scenario, but we can't have everything. However the other's, well, FUCK YEAHHHH. Stabbing an ork with your chainsword, and then stabbing it into a wall and letting it slide down it getting torn in half while you turn and gun down his friends before yanking it out and chasing down those that escaped? Colour me exited.

Now, my eloquence has been severely dampened by this, and if I come across as an overexited fanboy, fuck it, I am. Some details may have been exaggerated by the ecstatic euphoria I was under at the time (I'm pretty sure they haven't, but I gotta cover my arse somehow).

And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolter...

Damn. The one year I pick to not go to Games Day...

Also: EXPLODING BOLTER SHELLS! YAY! This is what I thought was missing from the leaked footage from several years ago. It seemed as if there was no weight behind the bolter, as if it was just another submachine gun in an action game. This news makes me happy.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Aside from all the Gears borrowing from 40k lore in the first place, as someone who has actually seen the game played (at Games Day, September 2010), it doesn't play much like Gears at all anyway. The Hunky 3rd person aspect is about where it ends. Gears was all about using cover (Chest High Walls), and not getting hit too much (as far as I can recall, you weren't a walking army). In Space Marine...well, this will probably make the game sound unchallenging (which it didn't look), but SHEESH. They stuck to the damn fluff with this one, and from what I've seen, that's a damn fine decision. In the section I saw they were fighting Orks. And it was amazing. They were in an underground sewer complex, and the Space Marine's footsteps thudded around that shit like only a tonne of bioengineered adamantium-clad goodness could. The bolter rounds actually fucking exploded, which looked freaking awesome (especially the headshot on a particularly unfortunate gretchin). Combat looked like a 40k nut's dream, (nerdgasms ensued), the chainsaw hacking off limbs, and having some extraordinarily satisfying flourish kills (of course someone's gonna draw a comparison with a 'boot crushing someone's head' scenario, but we can't have everything. However the other's, well, FUCK YEAHHHH. Stabbing an ork with your chainsword, and then stabbing it into a wall and letting it slide down it getting torn in half while you turn and gun down his friends before yanking it out and chasing down those that escaped? Colour me exited.

Now, my eloquence has been severely dampened by this, and if I come across as an overexited fanboy, fuck it, I am. Some details may have been exaggerated by the ecstatic euphoria I was under at the time (I'm pretty sure they haven't, but I gotta cover my arse somehow).

And don't get me started on the Heavy Bolter...

Damn. The one year I pick to not go to Games Day...

Also: EXPLODING BOLTER SHELLS! YAY! This is what I thought was missing from the leaked footage from several years ago. It seemed as if there was no weight behind the bolter, as if it was just another submachine gun in an action game. This news makes me happy.

Ohhhh my friend you will be ecstatic. The bolters thud like a jackhammer (slower of course), and blow 2 meter spatters of Ork blood everywhere. It was...beautiful *wipes away tear*

 

[Corpsey]

Tau are more humanitarian or utilitarian than outright communistic. Not everyone has the exact same set of skills, but certain sets of skills are required to perform specific roles better than others. In an MMO, you wouldn't send the tank to dps, or the dps to tank, would you? This is what gave rise to the Caste system of the Tau. They let certain groups of people focus on an aspect that their society requires to the exclusion of all else, so as they may master that one thing. Having 25% of the population doing one thing 100% sounds the same as 100% of the population doing 25% of all things, but the point is that one person can really only do one thing at a time.

The idea that each Tau person, and each member of their allied races is equal is less true in that particular wording. It is that they, and the roles they perform, are all equally important to the growth and advancement of the Tau Empire as a whole.

I also don't think their aesthetic design relates to any anime/Japanese style that I know of. I like to think I'm rather seasoned in Eastern style mecha, and conclude that XV8 Crisis suits look nothing like anything I can reference. The Tau Fleet is an exception to this because they look like rather generic ships, and can't really draw any reference because space ships don't really exist IRL yet. Their aircraft and transports, gunships, etc are usually much wider than anything I can reference.

Enough about Tau, more about the Bolter. Part of its operating principles and mechanisms is that most of the propulsion is contained within the warhead itself, as it is rocket/gyro-jet powered. Recoil is minimal, which lends itself to rate of fire. I haven't experienced the route they're going with this, but I honestly don't hope they make it a bullet hose. Glorified SMG's always make me cry because they are designed only to trickle that little spot in the back of your head that hasn't quite grown up yet. Granted, the entirety of 40k is designed to that effect, it at least offers a bit of seriousness now and again.

Now, onto the actual topic at hand. I'm quite excited for this game. The concept behind 40k space marines is fresh from even the Halo space marines, which seems more militaristic and serious. 40k is just over-powering and bursting with color and gory glory. Instead of relying on special tactics (GoW) or special gear/gimmicks (Halo), you just run fearlessly straight into the heart of the enemy.

I think a valid comparison would be those hack and slash dungeon crawlers, or just brawler games of that nature, not dry, gritty, 3rd person shooters (or shooters in general).

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Enough about Tau, more about the Bolter. Part of its operating principles and mechanisms is that most of the propulsion is contained within the warhead itself, as it is rocket/gyro-jet powered. Recoil is minimal, which lends itself to rate of fire. I haven't experienced the route they're going with this, but I honestly don't hope they make it a bullet hose. Glorified SMG's always make me cry because they are designed only to trickle that little spot in the back of your head that hasn't quite grown up yet. Granted, the entirety of 40k is designed to that effect, it at least offers a bit of seriousness now and again.

Now, onto the actual topic at hand. I'm quite excited for this game. The concept behind 40k space marines is fresh from even the Halo space marines, which seems more militaristic and serious. 40k is just over-powering and bursting with color and gory glory. Instead of relying on special tactics (GoW) or special gear/gimmicks (Halo), you just run fearlessly straight into the heart of the enemy.

I think a valid comparison would be those hack and slash dungeon crawlers, or just brawler games of that nature, not dry, gritty, 3rd person shooters (or shooters in general).

From what I've seen, it's just as you've wished for. It's fun, and not bogged down in grimdark melodrama (bright colours ftw). While I watched the guy playing it, he ran in, gun blazing (the Bolter didn't play like a 'glorified SMG' at all, you'll be glad to hear), and both the shooting and combat looked genuinely fun. I should probably stop raving, but it did look really good.