Space Marine Gets Invaded by Chaos this August
- Thread starter Scott Bullock
- Start date
I'm looking forward to the game but wished the Relic video-games would feature more demons then those of Khorne.
That's a fairly good understanding of Imperial technology, though I'd like to correct or clarify a few things.Major Tom said:
-Point #1 is extremely rare. These are the relics of the Imperium and most likely belong to the Space Marines, as they have no real grasp as to how to rebuild their machines, simply how to use them to kill things. This is why they rely on serfs and servitors so much to run things. More to the point, these are things like Doomhammers which can never be replaced because the Emperor himself knew how to build them and a select few others to aid him.
-Point #2 is also extremely rare and centered around the Space Marines once more. These are things like Space Marine battlebarges (I believe, someone can correct me on that if it's wrong), Dreadnaughts and what-not, though if you want to include factoriums, it would also include those as there are a lot of factoriums the Imperium doesn't understand how they work, simply how to maintenance them. Also, repairs are never jury-rigged unless on the field as they simply replace the part. They understand how to install vital components, just not how to build them as the factorium does that for them. To put it simply, the Imperium rarely runs into problem #1 or #2 unless they loose factoriums or shrines.
-Point #3 simply doesn't happen. For what they can't mass produce, it's simply too much time and labour to spend making something like that. In fact, it's actually better to just take back whatever they lost and restart production at the factorium. This is why so many planets are under contension, because they have these factoriums to construct weaponry the Imperium has otherwise lost.
-Point #4 is pretty much everything else in the Imperium that you would think of. They can build facilities to contruct these machines and mass produce them easily. Las-Carbines, Space Marine Bolters, ammunition for both, Thunderhawks, Baneblades, Battle Cruisers, etc etc.
-Point #5 is also rare and mostly for products that can't be mass produced. Things that require very fine details like watches or clockwork toys are examples of things that are common knowledge and can be learned by anyone, but are usually family trades that are passed down from father/mother to son/daughter because of the specialization it requires. However, the Imperium is in no short supply of these people.
It's also worth mentioning that while people seem to always say that the humans don't have a very good grasp of technology, it's absolutely not true. Think about how a lot of people in this world still don't know how to fire and upkeep a gun. This is true for most civilians in Warhammer 40K and probably still true for quite a few PDF/Imperial Guard. They're taught to do things a certain way so that's how they do them. However, humanity still has the Machanicus, who have an excellent grasp of every piece of technology the Imperium uses because of the noosphere and has enough experience with Imperial technology that they can quickly reverse engineer most alien technology and figure out how lost Imperial technology works if they ever find it. There are a few notable exceptions (Doomhammers, Dreadnaughts and Terminator armour being obvious ones) but for the most part they're pretty tech-savvy. The whole "don't understand technology" comes from their belief in the machine spirit and the intense rituals and rites they perform when all they really need to do is flick a few switches. There's a quote from one of the 1st Edition codexes that details a very long and arduous rite the turning on a troop carrier, spanning almost half a page in writing and at the very end, the very last thing you do if you have properly completed the rest of the ritual to awaken the machine spirit is to press the large green button that says "Engage". That is why humanity is considered bad with technology in 40K, not that they don't understand how the majority of their technology works.
There's also the fact that there aren't as many blueprints missing as one might think. In fact, there are very few technologies that are truly lost to the Imperium. This is due in part to the fact that the Mechanicus documents absolutely everything and files it away. The issue arrises when most of that information is sequestered because it either came from before the time of the Heresy, during the Heresy or is so obscure that it would take a lifetime or two just to find it if it was in an inferior form of documentation. This degredation of understanding older coding is really expemplified in the book "Titanicus" by Dan Abbnett. A really good read if you want to learn about the Mechanicus, for sure. to the point, the Mechanicus has the information, the Imperium may just not have the facilities to produce the pattern or that it may just take too damn long to figure out how to make it for it to be useful.
Ah, thankfully! I like Orks but I doubt they could carry a proper story. After all, they're basically a bunch of football hooligans having a good, murderous time. Not much in terms of dramatic twists or interesting character development to be expected there. Good decision!
Frankster said:
Still at or above legion strength:Major Tom said:
+Thousand Sons still have their pre-heresy numbers. It's just that the average marines are mindless zombie things that need to be herded by their sorcerors. Ahrimon (sp?)'s Rubric caused all those with latent psychic talent in the legion to become super powerful at the expense of all of the minds of the non-psychers in the legion. Magnus was furious and cast Ahrimon out. When the psychers die their souls generally just get sent back to the planet of sorcerers and possess the mindless marines.
+Word Bearers are still a fully functional legion. They fanatically hunt down and kill any who leave the legion or any legionaries who dedicate themselves to one power. (In their eyes both are heresy against Lorgar)
+Iron Warriors are functional and own their own planet in the warp. They have a technique of making new warriors. They slowly retreated to the warp messing with the imperial fists as they left
+Alpha Legion are way above legion strength and ridiculously coordinated. Exist on thousands of worlds in disguise and operate in small-medium cells that don't keep in contact with the rest of the legion for large periods of time.
+Sons of Horus/Luna Wolves are now the Black Legion and beyond legion strength due to new recruits and members of fractured legions joining them.
+Death Guard
Broken Legions (large warbands and black legion swaps)
-Night Lords-Small-large Warbands after Cruze's assassination.
-World Eaters-In a fight with the Emperor's children Kharn grew tired of waiting for his side to wake up and fight so burned their tents, massacred them and generally screwed them over. They now exist as squads and small warbands.
-Emperor's Children-small-large warbands everyone got pissed at them because they raided other Chaos worlds and stole the corpse of Horus to experiment on.
As you can see the majority are still at or above heresy strength levels
To clarify I only said their numbers fell under strength after the horus heresy and they went to see Bile to sort out their problems.Scorched_Cascade said:
It was the whole "every csm is an unstoppable god that has been waging war for 10 millenia" image I seeked to challenge.
Of those legions you mentioned the only one who might have a majority of hh vets would be the thousand sons due to their curse, but that same curse means they can't really exploit their experience to their full advantage.
Black legion, Worldbearers, Iron warriors,Night Lords , Emperors Children and well, just about every other chaos chapter have been getting a lot of new blood since the HH, so the 10 000 year old vets are no longer the standard troopers, the HH vets either having been killed off long ago or risen in status since then.
So yah, don't get me wrong, not saying chaos legions are in danger of having manpower problems anytime soon xD Chao legions are well provided with personel and gear, they have all they need.
Also kinda agree with this viewpoint
If any race can be considered "good" it's the orks. They are free of bias beyond green is better and red ones go faster, they do not explicitly seek to wipe out other races nor do they hold hatreds, they also lack the xenophobia and paranoia other races have.Engarde said:
They are willing to fight for anyone giving the right price, and will be honorable in their dealings until its conclusion (once the job is up though.... Then they might decide to fight you for fun).
So yes, those football hooligans are not only the "good guys" of 40k, but they are also it's greatest hope against necrons (whom they were made to fight against), nids (inquisition uses orks to slow down the nids) and whatever horror still lurks in the stars, for orks are made for winnin
Namewithheld said:
EMAIL RELIC WITH THIS BRILLIANCE IMMEDIATELY!
My Armor is Contempt
My Shield is Disgust
My Sword is Hatred
In The Emperor's Name LET NONE SURVIVE!
SPACE MARINES ATTACK!
Plenty do, Eisenhorn had his psionic-null girlfriend despite being uncomfortable around her. I think (though I could be remembering it wrong) that his apprentice Ravenor does also, sort of. He's confined to a heavily fortified "wheel chair" (think of what Professor X would be like if crossed with Wild Card's "The Great and Powerful Turtle") and uses his psionic powers to "ride along" in his agents and I think he uses some of them for sex with their consent, though it was never described in detail.Namewithheld said:
The Inquisitor from "Inquisition War" (the name eludes me off the top of my head) had his shapechanging Assasin girlfriend.
Honestly, I think the big issue is that 99% of the Warhammer 40k stuff revolves around the military units, as opposed to what's going on with a lot of the other elements. Decadence is supposed to be at an all time high, even without the influance of chaos, but rarely does anyone want to go there.
Also, other than some she-demons popping up once in a while, the existance of Slaanesh is by and large overlooked in favor of the more martial chaos enemies or those with disgusting manifestations. I suspect a lot of it is that violence is easier to get away with than sex, and it's better left to flavorful back text or implication. A massive lesbian S&M orgy involving Sisters of Battle who have sworn off all men but the emperor but indulge in that technicality might gives some people the wrong impression about the game, yet I seem to remember that's an issue with SOME sects (but not all). Indeed it's that kind of decadence in various arms of the goverment (including the religious aspects) and nobility that gives Slaanesh such a foothold, and is supposed to give that power sort of a leg up in setting up conspiricies and turning various units against the good guys. Groups like The Inquisition, and Space Marines are however relatively shielded from this due to very careful self control or keeping themselves cloistered. Although Inquisitors have their moments as there is that entire "Radical" movement (which is hardly wrong in how it behaves when you look at the big picture) that gets up to some wierd stuff (while totally non-sexual, Eisenhorn had command of Cherubael and actually used him at the end of his trilogy as a solid example of a Renegade).
Honestly though, I'm somewhat disappointed by them deciding to do a Space Marine shooter, I say this only because like with most things the liscence is late to the party, and other shooters have been ripping off "Warhammer 40k" to some extent for a long time now. Seeing the inspiration for some of the other games in it's true form might be interesting, but right now it's just going to be an "also ran" with all the heroes that are collectively referred to as space marines along with these guys.
While I'm a big fan of the "Dawn Of War" computer games, and think they are solid, they were a long time in coming, and sadly invite a lot of comparisons to a lot of other similar games. Ironically the Blizzard "Warcraft" franchise began as a Warhammer game, but Games Workshop said no, but allowed them to keep developing it, hence the similarities (as far as I've heard), this later springboarded into Starcraft as well. "Dawn Of War" is awesome as a series, but does it have the following "Starcraft" does? Will it ever come out of that game's shadow?
Honestly, looking at their recent PnP RPGs based around the Inquisition and Rogue Traders, I've been of the opinion that with Bioware going increasingly towards the casual market, they might have the oppertunity to do some serious CRPGs They have a solid game engine to work with, and honestly I think using D20 mechanics (from when WoTC was producing Star Wars games) was part of what really helped "Knights Of The Old Republic" since it lead to a solid game engine. Something similar, based around their RPG franchises could be interesting, and getting away from the Space Marines and outright battlefield warfare might help spread the universe.
Heck, for that matter, even as a stategy game I'd like to see them do more with Necromunda.
Also, Ciphas Cain wouldn't really work as a FPS. I've only read the first couple of books, but half the point of the character is that he really doesn't do much except engage in shameless self-promotion and come out smelling like a rose. He's actually a pretty good fighter, and DOES have his moments, but seeing as he's a character about sitting back and watching other people do the shooting, he wouldn't work as an FPS guy. Heck most of his personal fighting is done with a chainsword, and the nastier stuff actually gets taken out by his psionic nullifying man servant who likes to tote around a heavy Melta Gun.
Ironically if someone was going to do a Ciphas Cain game, it would probably work best as an adventure game to be honest, as the focus is on the humor. Truthfully though as the whole thing exists to make fun of the 40k universe, I'm not sure how much appeal it would have overall because you couldn't just pick it up and fully appreciate it (if done right) to fully grasp why some of the things that are going on are so supposed to be so funny. Having read something like "Gaunt's Ghosts" about an actual hero Commissar (or well Colonel-Comissar) first really helps to set the proper counterpoint for reading about Cain.
