Spawn Camping Marathon Gets Black Ops Players Banned

[Weaver]

Okay so...
Treyarch makes a shit spawn system (just like WaW).
People expose this and Treyarch just bans them for, basically, "being stupid meanie heads".

Why not rectify the obvious balance and mechanical issues in your game?

 

[Mikeyfell]

STOP PLAYING CALL OF DUTY GAMES! THEY ARE NOT GOOD!

Nobody buy Modern Warfare 3.

First Activision looses Guitar Hero, then they loose Call of Duty, then they go out of business, then the gaming world will be a better place.
Come on people join the cause!

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Treyarch should be working to fix these issues, NOT just banning the players.

Whatever, I play TF2 so I couldn't care less how unbalanced this game is.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

Lots n' lots of posts above.

First and foremost, I wanted to tip my hat to you as well.

Personally, I see two solutions. One is good ol' 'few seconds of invulnerability' upon spawning or what Black Hawk: Tango Down does, which has a dedicating spawn area guarded by indestructable sentry turrets placed in such a way that spawn-camping is impossible.

Even so much as having a more intelligent algorithm for dynamic spawns would make more sense than the current system - and it'd be a hell of a lot more realistic, too. You don't insert people into spots on the battlefield where there are enemy troops.

I do not have Blippity Blops, and my only recent COD online experience is with Infinity Ward's "COD4: Modern Warfare 1." Modern Warfare seemed to have been relatively good about distancing players from opponents, so what has Treyarch managed to screw up so differently? I cannot fathom why nobody thought that there would be unscrupulous players that would take advantage of a bloody stupid hole in the spawning system.

Perhaps for a good spawn system, the players all spawn in a safe room with health and ammo supply closets and the door can only be opened by their team. There was a game that did this I just can't remember
....actually now that I think about it, it wouldn't work well with the health system. I watch my brother play this all the time and we've found a lot of flaws in balance.
For example: The FAMAS is the most POWERFUL gun in Black Ops existence and is flawless in every way.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

You're kidding right? Seriously people, there's no such thing as an illegitimate tactic, and anyone who claims that there is, including Treyarch, are complete idiots. The only tactic worth having in a game is "Win." If it's possible to do this in the game you should do it. If it's possible to do anything, within the games inherent rules, that means you win you should do it.

 

[MolotoK]

The Black Ops community is fucked up.
In almost any other online FPS, you'd see people rejoicing when players get banned for spawn raping, but here there are people who defend these tactics.

The long kill streaks and insane k/d ratios in Black Ops just turn people into score whores.
In any other game u have to work hard for a 2:1 k/d ratio. In the COD series u get 5:1 just by being a bit better than all the other people on the server or simply by exploiting one of the many many unbalanced game mechanics.

 

[Asehujiko]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! sweet. I love when spawn campers suck or this happens.

You love it when somebody makes a video that basically says: "this shit is broken and here is a perfect demonstration of what happens because of that" and then an angry community mismanager decides to shoot the messenger instead of forwarding it to the studio he's attached to?

The people doing it should have sent it to them instead. Not everything youtube is looked at by everyone daily.

And neither do these people have any reliable way of contacting anybody at treyarch beyond "put it somewhere public and hope it gets noticed". Olin flat out stated he doesn't listen to anybody who thinks there is something wrong with his game.

then he's a douche. All i know is that this was on youtube and it could have never been posted on treyarch forums. As for the guys doing it they were the ones doing it and deserve punishment. As the guy who put the video online says he isn't doing it but he wanted to show that this could happen. So yeas. They should be punished for exploiting it since they didn't make this video to show how easy it is to exploit the game.

Treyarch doesn't read their forums, posting it there would be a moot point. And the video linked here is not the original one. The players in that match DID create the video, the guy here just copied theirs, talked over it and got more viewers simply by virtue of being noticed first by news outlets. Then treyarch took down the original one and banned all involved simply because it's bad press for the game.

Again, you haven't explained how the fuck you got the idea that it's somehow a good thing that somebody who demonstrates a flaw in your product deserves any punishment at all. They didn't exploit to gain ranks(that's what undetectable and very common rack hacks are for), they did it to show problems with the game, hence the video.

I have only seen this one video. All i know is the guy who made it said it wasn't him but other people and he talked over it. In the video i saw is a bunch of spawn campers. Even if they were trying to prove that the game had a huge exploit they could have gone about it a better way. My point still stands. It's like Hacking a game then saying look i hacked your game because of this then getting angry because they got banned for it. Or using a glitch to kill everyone in the game in their spawn point to prove a point....happened in MAG to.

What better way? They made a video of what's wrong with the game while explaining what exactly is wrong.

How could they possibly provide evidence of the problems of the game if the evidence itself isn't allowed to exist?

 

[hippo24]

Ohhs noes you broke my shoddy game.

Better ban you for good measure.
Also I better not fix the problem
that would make...sense

 

[BrionJames]

The core mechanics of CoD online are so broken, I just find this funny

The "core mechanics" are broken? I'd like to hear you explain that further.

OT: That's pretty sad. I thought the spawns were a lot more random but I guess this type of match it isn't.

Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.

Why I stopped playing COD, in the first place. Who knows maybe Battlefield 3 will be good.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You're kidding right? Seriously people, there's no such thing as an illegitimate tactic, and anyone who claims that there is, including Treyarch, are complete idiots. The only tactic worth having in a game is "Win." If it's possible to do this in the game you should do it. If it's possible to do anything, within the games inherent rules, that means you win you should do it.

If the rules of the game inhibit alternative strategies to the point where only one or two strategies can win at all, it defeats the point of the gameplay therein.
This is called a "Degenerate Metagame", and it saps the depth from the game by limiting the viable strategies.

A game with no depth is a very shallow experience, no matter how much you "Win".
The only reason people would enjoy such an experience is if they derived pleasure from griefing others, which is more akin to bully-logic, not one of competition (thus eliminating the "legitimacy" of such wins).

Of course, this particular example from Black Ops isn't a case of a degenerate metagame (though it demonstrates how it could turn into one); the match was rigged, there was no competition.

 

[ph0b0s123]

What people using their knowledge of a system and it's weaknesses to gain an advantage. Well I never. But lets ban rather than repair the weakness.

Wasn't there a film which demonstrated this well known technique of games players to beat games. Oh yes the Matrix. But I suppose if it was made now it would not work as whenever Neo or any of his comrades did anything superhuman due to their knowledge of the system, they would have just been banned....

 

[Danpascooch]

I'm actually pretty good at CoD, My K/D ratio is well above 1.0 (which is another thing that bugs me, I wish they didn't even calculate that, my natural OCD prevents me from having fun for the sake of that little number)

I'm not annoyed at drop-shooting so much because it's cheap, but that tons of people do it. You see no teamwork or tactics in that game, but you see idiots leap-shooting like 50 times a match, seriously? This is supposed to be the best FPS ever based on sales so I would expect it to be well designed enough that a huge portion of the player base wouldn't consider "Diving toward an enemy while spraying them with an automatic weapon 5 times in a row" to be a viable strategy.

As for your third point, you are completely right, but I fail to see how it is at all relevant to my original post, I never said anything about weapon variety.

I've never actually encountered any leap-shooting (at least, not frequently enough for it to be memorable). Drop-shooting I've seen (and done), but I consider that one a skill associated with the game more than a cheap tactic because it does have drawbacks (higher headshot risk, reduced ability to handle attacks from the side, etc.). I've died from doing it accidentally very frequently.

I wasn't really intending it to be relevant to the tactics/skill side of things - it's just another of the issues that screws up the system. Claymores having absolutely no backward damage is another one that annoys the shit out of me.

...still, overall, I enjoy playing the game. I'd enjoy it a lot more if some of the design decisions were a tad more intelligent, but it's still fun for me (right now, anyway - a few months back I'd've said the same about TF2, though that one lost appeal because of the medic's new stuff than for any particular gameplay flaws).

Could claymores possibly be any more annoying? I guess maybe if they teabagged you after blowing you up, lol

BTW, I meant drop shooting when I said leap shooting, it looks like kind of a leap to me.

 

[Danpascooch]

The core mechanics of CoD online are so broken, I just find this funny

EDIT: To those who want to argue with me about why I think the core mechanics are broken, here is a copy of a post I made detailing my argument, I don't think CoD is stupid or hopeless, but I do think it needs major reform immediately, I have no intent to start an argument or flame-war, I am merely sharing my opinion that is relevant to this topic:

Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.

amen brother. but srsly, see the battlefield series, thats skill.

I have kind of a strange relationship with BC2, I like the concept of it, and I respect the system, but something about its execution is a little off with me.

I think it comes down to variety, there weren't enough level-ups, maps, or different vehicles to become one of those long term multiplayer games that I like such as Halo. If I could change 2 things about BC2 I would add more variety (new maps and gametypes) and more aerial vehicles because those are THE SHIT.

 

[Danpascooch]

The core mechanics of CoD online are so broken, I just find this funny

The "core mechanics" are broken? I'd like to hear you explain that further.

OT: That's pretty sad. I thought the spawns were a lot more random but I guess this type of match it isn't.

Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.

Why I stopped playing COD, in the first place. Who knows maybe Battlefield 3 will be good.

I can't wait for the new Battlefield from what I read in Game Informer.

Entirely new engine? Check.
Full Building REALISTIC destruction? Check.
Smooth player animation without gliding? Check.
motherfucking FIGHTER JETS!? CHECK!

 

[Hgame]

Lots n' lots of posts above.

First and foremost, I wanted to tip my hat to you as well.

Personally, I see two solutions. One is good ol' 'few seconds of invulnerability' upon spawning or what Black Hawk: Tango Down does, which has a dedicating spawn area guarded by indestructable sentry turrets placed in such a way that spawn-camping is impossible.

Even so much as having a more intelligent algorithm for dynamic spawns would make more sense than the current system - and it'd be a hell of a lot more realistic, too. You don't insert people into spots on the battlefield where there are enemy troops.

I do not have Blippity Blops, and my only recent COD online experience is with Infinity Ward's "COD4: Modern Warfare 1." Modern Warfare seemed to have been relatively good about distancing players from opponents, so what has Treyarch managed to screw up so differently? I cannot fathom why nobody thought that there would be unscrupulous players that would take advantage of a bloody stupid hole in the spawning system.

It wasn't a hole in the spawning system that caused it, it was boosting. There was another video of it posted earlier that showed how the other team was ignoring the opponents, deliberately missing and shooting away from the people getting the kills, before quitting at the end to protect their stats.

They weren't banned for spawn camping, they were banned for cheating the system by boosting to get higher ranks. Even if they were just exploiting a bug they should have been banned anyway. When you find a bug you should report it to the developers, not exploit it as much as possible. Saying that you can exploit bugs if you find them is like saying that if I leave my car unlocked, it's okay to steal it.

 

[Hgame]

You're kidding right? Seriously people, there's no such thing as an illegitimate tactic, and anyone who claims that there is, including Treyarch, are complete idiots. The only tactic worth having in a game is "Win." If it's possible to do this in the game you should do it. If it's possible to do anything, within the games inherent rules, that means you win you should do it.

So if I'm playing poker with you, and you turn your back, It's fine for me to switch my cards with the four aces in the deck.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Hey, way to punish players for exposing the flaws in your game, Treyarch.

Maybe the people getting beat were in league with the spawn campers, or maybe they're like me and refuse to quit no matter how badly they're getting beat.

Actually, it was boosting that occurred. One player allowed another to camp his point and kill him repeatedly. That is cheating to me.

 

[Sovereignty]

Kind of funny. I think the people doing it got their just deserts. I mean I don't care who you are. Going 501 and 8 you know you're abusing a system. I mean they all ran to the same place over and over. It's not like they were out to conquer the objectives or anything.

But that's what happens with mass appeal games. The cheesers show up.

I mean seriously you're going to keep playing that bore of a game, so long that you actually discern spawning points? Go play a single player game @_@

 

[ecoho]

wait so they got banned and their ranks reset cause they camped someone?! thats just stupid. also even if they were "working" with the other players and "boosting" who the hell cares?

Let people play your game the way they want to or dont make the game!

(note this is why i dont play cod or any of the new fps games online anymore people ***** about shit that doesnt matter)