Spawn Camping Marathon Gets Black Ops Players Banned

[Saelune]

They deserve their punishment, but Treyarch better fix it too.

 

[RaikuFA]

i can understand the 3 day ban but removing his whole rank?

more reason on why activision just needs to leave the industry altogether

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

I like how they just punish those that are just abusing flaws the developers left in rather than making a patch which would take 30 mins tops (i'm being generous) to just vary the spawn points.

You've clearly never seen what goes into map production for a Super Triple A title like CoD. You don't 'just move them' you need to first do hundreds of hours of research to make sure you're moving the right spawns to the right places, then you need to concept out and make a prototype of the map to get some preliminary results. You may wind up doing some major map changing to make the new spawns work. Then you need to do literally hundreds of hours of playtesting; remember, you have to simulate millions of hours of actual gameplay to make sure that you're affecting the correct change.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

I like how they just punish those that are just abusing flaws the developers left in rather than making a patch which would take 30 mins tops (i'm being generous) to just vary the spawn points.

You've clearly never seen what goes into map production for a Super Triple A title like CoD. You don't 'just move them' you need to first do hundreds of hours of research to make sure you're moving the right spawns to the right places, then you need to concept out and make a prototype of the map to get some preliminary results. You may wind up doing some major map changing to make the new spawns work. Then you need to do literally hundreds of hours of playtesting; remember, you have to simulate millions of hours of actual gameplay to make sure that you're affecting the correct change.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. The spawn points are bad right? Then move them! I can move them for halo on forge (halo mapmaker) in a few minutes by the time the program loads up. I'm sure the developers have far better software than that and so the actual moving will take seconds.

As the spawns are already bad and allow for abuse then what is the harm in moving them? If they find after a few thousand games (about an hour of real time) that the spawns are bad they can move them again while they work out a more permanent solution if they have to. It is practically no effort and they might even find a good trial and error result.

 

[Dragunai]

The core mechanics of CoD online are so broken, I just find this funny

EDIT: To those who want to argue with me about why I think the core mechanics are broken, here is a copy of a post I made detailing my argument, I don't think CoD is stupid or hopeless, but I do think it needs major reform immediately, I have no intent to start an argument or flame-war, I am merely sharing my opinion that is relevant to this topic:

Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.

I hereby choose you as my new God of accurate rants that completely expose the weak nature of the modern "gamers" who do all this stuff then send you messages syaing how shit you are because you actually roamed around and played the game (which is what I do).

May your place in Gamer Heaven be eternal and glorius!

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

I like how they just punish those that are just abusing flaws the developers left in rather than making a patch which would take 30 mins tops (i'm being generous) to just vary the spawn points.

You've clearly never seen what goes into map production for a Super Triple A title like CoD. You don't 'just move them' you need to first do hundreds of hours of research to make sure you're moving the right spawns to the right places, then you need to concept out and make a prototype of the map to get some preliminary results. You may wind up doing some major map changing to make the new spawns work. Then you need to do literally hundreds of hours of playtesting; remember, you have to simulate millions of hours of actual gameplay to make sure that you're affecting the correct change.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. The spawn points are bad right? Then move them! I can move them for halo on forge (halo mapmaker) in a few minutes by the time the program loads up. I'm sure the developers have far better software than that and so the actual moving will take seconds.

As the spawns are already bad and allow for abuse then what is the harm in moving them? If they find after a few thousand games (about an hour of real time) that the spawns are bad they can move them again while they work out a more permanent solution if they have to. It is practically no effort and they might even find a good trial and error result.

You've been perfectly clear, your just wrong. I've worked with major engine editors, (UDK, Torque, Unity) and for a Triple A title like CoD you don't want to just move spawns around the map without proper playtesting results to prove the move isn't going to affect another aspect of gameplay. There is a lot of planning in how the map will flow from match to match, and how each change can affect the feel, play and performance of a map. Maps are often designed with spawning areas that are very specifically to dictate how gameplay will happen on the map. The games also use a complex algorithm for deciding when to spawn a player at a specific position, depending on where your team-mates are, or how recently an enemy was at the position or was killed at the position. These factors all affect how the spawn positions were chosen by the developers.

 

[Ickorus]

I want to know at what point exploiting game mechanics became an okay thing to do in the eyes of the players.

Meh, I don't play Black Ops (I do have it, im one of the many people that the game is STILL fucked for) and I don't intend on ever buying another CoD game but it's still ridiculous to read some of the comments here and on the video comments.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Spoiler: quote wall

I like how they just punish those that are just abusing flaws the developers left in rather than making a patch which would take 30 mins tops (i'm being generous) to just vary the spawn points.

You've clearly never seen what goes into map production for a Super Triple A title like CoD. You don't 'just move them' you need to first do hundreds of hours of research to make sure you're moving the right spawns to the right places, then you need to concept out and make a prototype of the map to get some preliminary results. You may wind up doing some major map changing to make the new spawns work. Then you need to do literally hundreds of hours of playtesting; remember, you have to simulate millions of hours of actual gameplay to make sure that you're affecting the correct change.

Sorry I wasn't very clear. The spawn points are bad right? Then move them! I can move them for halo on forge (halo mapmaker) in a few minutes by the time the program loads up. I'm sure the developers have far better software than that and so the actual moving will take seconds.

As the spawns are already bad and allow for abuse then what is the harm in moving them? If they find after a few thousand games (about an hour of real time) that the spawns are bad they can move them again while they work out a more permanent solution if they have to. It is practically no effort and they might even find a good trial and error result.

You've been perfectly clear, your just wrong. I've worked with major engine editors, (UDK, Torque, Unity) and for a Triple A title like CoD you don't want to just move spawns around the map without proper playtesting results to prove the move isn't going to affect another aspect of gameplay. There is a lot of planning in how the map will flow from match to match, and how each change can affect the feel, play and performance of a map. Maps are often designed with spawning areas that are very specifically to dictate how gameplay will happen on the map. The games also use a complex algorithm for deciding when to spawn a player at a specific position, depending on where your team-mates are, or how recently an enemy was at the position or was killed at the position. These factors all affect how the spawn positions were chosen by the developers.

Look I don't want to get into this arguement personal experience ones never end well. Your reply however makes me question whether you actually read the article or watched the video or just came to pick a fight.

The problem is the spawns are static there is no complex algorithm. Players spawn in exactly the same places every time, if you watch the video you can see him clearly standing there and knifing one guy after another as they spawn in exactly the same spot.

Gameplay is already broken there is no need to test to see if changing anything will break it. At this point any change would be better even if you then later have to refine that change.

The poster above you even quoted an earlier poster (13 minutes before you posted) who talked about their experience with the game and pointed out the flaws they had spotted inherent in the game and how broken game play is.

I don't know what about my comment as opposed to the 11 pages of similar comments struck a chord with you but I'm sorry.

 

[Danpascooch]

The core mechanics of CoD online are so broken, I just find this funny

EDIT: To those who want to argue with me about why I think the core mechanics are broken, here is a copy of a post I made detailing my argument, I don't think CoD is stupid or hopeless, but I do think it needs major reform immediately, I have no intent to start an argument or flame-war, I am merely sharing my opinion that is relevant to this topic:

Alright, let's see if I can do this without starting a flamewar, I think I can manage it. *cracks knuckles*

Shooters are generally about skill and team tactics, that is what elevates one team over another in an online match. Here are those two elements, and how the core mechanics of CoD violate and destroy each of them.

Skill:

Basic Definition:

The ability to properly dispatch an opponent due to effective aiming and use of environment (cover and the like) in an even fight.

Call of Duty Definition:

The ability to wait in one spot until an enemy walks by, and then kill him solely because you sat in one spot and happened to see him first.

Violating Mechanics:

1.) Low Health (or high damage)

The extremely low health in CoD means that when two opponents are within range of eachother, and overwhelming amount of time the victor is the one who sees his opponent first, not the one with the most skill.

2.) Prone

Prone allows a player to lie down and almost always be the first person to see an opponent when the opponent enters the room, and don't even get me started on "drop shooting"

3.) Static Spawn

Besides the obvious problems shown in the video (did you see the part where he literally stood behind them and stabbed each one as they appeared?) Static spawning means that you can reliably predict which hallway/room/alley the enemy players will funnel through, leading to camping spots that take advantage of the mechanics listed above to remove skill from the game

4.) Kill Streaks

Players are awarded for getting a number of kills without dying, which discourages them from taking any sort of calculated risk or put their life in danger for the good of the team, this heavily encourages camping

Conclusion:

I have no real issue with any of these mechanics alone, the problem is that they all work together in synchronization to create a game where the victor is not determined by skill but by camping and waiting for extended periods of time

Tactics

Definition: Increasing effectiveness through the use of proper team communication, strategies, and grouping into squads

Violating Mechanics:

1.) The four mechanics above and the camping atmosphere they create

Grouping is suicide in CoD because the high damage and advantage of finding a camping spot means that a single camper with a rifle can kill three or more people almost as quickly as one, as long as he has a decent camping spot. (as in, any window overlooking a linear path)

2.) Static Spawns & Frequent Deaths

The fact that in CoD players are constantly either A) In a camping spot (in which case another teammate isn't likely to heavily increase effectiveness as detailed above) or B) constantly dying and teleporting back to one side of the map. Makes it nearly impossible to work as a group.

Conclusion:

Given the diminishing returns on camping, and the fact that players are constantly separated by being whisked away on respawn with startling frequency makes it nearly impossible to execute any meaningful teamwork.

Overall Argument

A shooter is not about finding spots to camp on a map, but that's what Call of Duty is all about, leading me to the conclusion that the core mechanics listed above have broken the fundamental aspects of what makes a shooter enjoyable.

I hereby choose you as my new God of accurate rants that completely expose the weak nature of the modern "gamers" who do all this stuff then send you messages syaing how shit you are because you actually roamed around and played the game (which is what I do).

May your place in Gamer Heaven be eternal and glorius!

Wow, uh, thanks.

Honestly it started off as just a sentence or two and then just sort of flowed on from there, I'm actually in college right now for game design so I guess it's good for me to start thinking about these things, although honestly I'll probably end up more code monkey than concept designer.

 

[g-g]

year bann cheaters no warnings

 

[lizards]

Crappy spawning is Treyarchs calling card. Ever notice how in World at War enemies would literally spawn right behind you? Neither Modern Warfare game had that problem and then this gets called out in Black Ops. Funny thing is instead of fixing the problem, Treyarch bans these guys. I'd rather they ban all the people who have flying ejaculating penis' as Player tags.

um did you play modernwarfare 2? if you did you would know that your lieing about spawns not being a problem in modernwarfare games, although the first one wasnt bad about it