Spider-Man Joining the Marvel Cinematic Universe - Update
- Thread starter StewShearerOld
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no offense to Andrew Garfield, but i seriously hope he doesn't get the part. Marvel needs to seperate themselves from those movies. (and honestly, the Sam Raimi films too)
to me, this sounds like sony didn't wanna give up the franchise, but were well aware that they had no idea how to make a spiderman movie. i'm okay with this compromise, though i hate the "final creative control" line. and honestly, i'd have just liked to see sony step off altogether. but, i'll take what i can get.
to me, this sounds like sony didn't wanna give up the franchise, but were well aware that they had no idea how to make a spiderman movie. i'm okay with this compromise, though i hate the "final creative control" line. and honestly, i'd have just liked to see sony step off altogether. but, i'll take what i can get.
Ugh...
In the words of Mr Jensen: I neverwanted asked for this. They're retaining creative control? Seriously? Neither Sony nor Fox can match the quality or savvy of Marvel Studios, so if it's still the headless chickens at Sony pulling the strings, then the MCU just took a major hit in quality control.
I hoped Garfield's Spidey would be ditched, quietly forgotten about, and then Miles Morales could've joined the MCU. Sod Parker - he's been done to death on the screen already. Diversity/representation's important, right? Well, Morales both draws a clear line between the Sony clusterfuck and the MCU (making Spidey more than just another Parker reboot), and ticks that box. Also, I think Morales suit design is one of the best Spidey designs of all time, so an MCU version of that could be pretty badass.
In the words of Mr Jensen: I never
I hoped Garfield's Spidey would be ditched, quietly forgotten about, and then Miles Morales could've joined the MCU. Sod Parker - he's been done to death on the screen already. Diversity/representation's important, right? Well, Morales both draws a clear line between the Sony clusterfuck and the MCU (making Spidey more than just another Parker reboot), and ticks that box. Also, I think Morales suit design is one of the best Spidey designs of all time, so an MCU version of that could be pretty badass.
Thats all well and good, but why is Sony getting final creative control? We already know where that got them.
Also cant help but wonder if theyre going to use a Spidey thats not Peter Parker, and what this means for that Sinister Six movie Sony had planned.
Also cant help but wonder if theyre going to use a Spidey thats not Peter Parker, and what this means for that Sinister Six movie Sony had planned.
Sounds like a temporary fix at best.
If I understand correctly, Marvel gets to incorporate Spiderman into one MCU movie on its own terms, and then Sony continues to produce movies on it's own terms after that, although with guidance coming from Marvel. Marvel gets some control in the direction, and Sony gets a solid springboard for further development.
Problem is, that in no way means that Marvel CAN push Sony in a good direction, or that future Spidey films will be part of the MCU canon.
Best case scenario: Sony defers to Marvel's vision whenever it can, ties Spidey into the MCU whenever possible, does nothing which could upset continuity, and we even see cameos from other MCU characters.
Worst case scenario: Sony uses the MCU tie-in to renew interest in Spidey, then effectively tells Marvel to shove it, because Sony still owns the character and has creative control. Marvel is faced with having to incorporate the ASM universe into the MCU, or pretending it doesn't exist, and ends up regretting its greed at getting one of its favourite characters into the MCU, no matter the cost.
Because Sony is the one still holding all the Spiderman cards.
If I understand correctly, Marvel gets to incorporate Spiderman into one MCU movie on its own terms, and then Sony continues to produce movies on it's own terms after that, although with guidance coming from Marvel. Marvel gets some control in the direction, and Sony gets a solid springboard for further development.
Problem is, that in no way means that Marvel CAN push Sony in a good direction, or that future Spidey films will be part of the MCU canon.
Best case scenario: Sony defers to Marvel's vision whenever it can, ties Spidey into the MCU whenever possible, does nothing which could upset continuity, and we even see cameos from other MCU characters.
Worst case scenario: Sony uses the MCU tie-in to renew interest in Spidey, then effectively tells Marvel to shove it, because Sony still owns the character and has creative control. Marvel is faced with having to incorporate the ASM universe into the MCU, or pretending it doesn't exist, and ends up regretting its greed at getting one of its favourite characters into the MCU, no matter the cost.
Because Sony is the one still holding all the Spiderman cards.
Oh! Oh! Another good idea: Spider-Woman! The new Gwen Stacy version. Have Peter Parker as the VILLAIN. Not an intentional one. Use the same story of Peter Parker morphing into the Lizard as in the comics and dying tragically. Maybe have him turn into a giant spider beast instead since we just had the Lizard.Darth Rosenberg said:
And things could get REAL META in that while he dies he's like "I thought I was always destined... To be the hero..."
Hell, throw Miles Morales in there too. Have him be the one who just got his powers, and have Spider-Gwen show shim the web-ropes as a way to flesh out the new continuity.
Call it "Spiders". Throw in a stinger teasing Agent Venom.
It'll never happen, but come on. Those two spider-costumes fighting back-to-back is too cool a mental image.
Honestly, Marvel is the one with all the power in this relationship. The important thing to remember is that Marvel doesn't *need* Spider Man for their Cinematic Universe. They were doing just fine before, and doing a whole lot better than Sony has been doing on the superhero front. If you go by some of the leaks from before, it was Sony HQ that was pressuring the film division to make a deal with Marvel. They came crawling to Marvel wanting a piece of the pie, not the other way around.mjharper said:
The fact that they specifically mentioned that Sony would be working with Marvel representatives while 'retaining some creative control' is very telling I think. Either Sony plays ball and does what Marvel tells it to, or Marvel just writes Spidey out of their billion dollar multimedia franchise and Sony goes back to making its own, mostly-forgettable, spider man movies. Sony holds the Spider Man cards in the sense that they still technically hold the right to the character, but Marvel is the one who holds all the keys to the kingdom at the moment. They're allowing Sony to be a part of the good thing they've got going, and Sony is going to know that they need Marvel a whole lot more than Marvel needs them.
And really, Sony *has* to keep playing ball. Because, let's say they try to break away and do Spider Man from scratch again after using Marvel for hype. Well, they can't use that same form of the character any more, because it's tied to the MCU, and Marvel would sue the hell out of them for using MCU assets without permission. They would almost certainly have to reboot Spider Man for a fourth time. Start from square one yet again. I imagine there are all sorts of fun, criss-crossing contracts regarding this whole deal.
And I really doubt they would use the ASM franchise. Sony, and a decent chunk of the public, aren't that fond of it currently, and Andrew Garfield is almost certainly out as Spider Man. Most likely, they decide to cut their losses regarding ASM and reboot the franchise for a third time (hopefully avoiding a third origin story) specifically to be tied into the MCU. And if Sony screws it up or doesn't play ball, they're back out in the cold, unable to use the Spider Man they just rebooted to tie into Marvel.
I hope they go with a new direction, film-wise. The MCU already has a film deliberately evoking the past (Captain America: The First Avenger), as well as two that are grim (Iron Man 3) and gritty (Captain America: The Winter Soldier).
Maybe just make a silly film for Spider-Man, I mean Guardians seemed to prove that people aren't sick of it even after Thor, Captain America and Thor 2.
Maybe just make a silly film for Spider-Man, I mean Guardians seemed to prove that people aren't sick of it even after Thor, Captain America and Thor 2.
Heh, your scenario was too meta, but I hadn't thought of an XX Spidey. I'd go with Jessica Drew, though, as I love the red/yellow design with her black hair.ShirowShirow said:
(if I could pick one character to be effectively replaced as far as gender goes, it'd be
I always wondered why Sony didn't just finance the films and let Disney staff it with their own creative content and work it into the MCU. I'm positive they could work out a deal that would see them both get tons of cash and basically everything that Kevin Feige touches right now is gold.
It'd be like me giving someone 100 dollars and then a year later having them give me back 1000 without me having to do anything. It hardly seems like a bad idea.
It'd be like me giving someone 100 dollars and then a year later having them give me back 1000 without me having to do anything. It hardly seems like a bad idea.
The only political themes in any of the MCU is purely anti-establishment, anti-government, pro-privacy and pro-individual rights. This is an arc that culminates at the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier where the big super sekrit quasi-governmental police force that is trying to put spy cameras on all potential "problems" gets infiltrated and then taken down by Captain America.Toadfish1 said:
This is not anywhere near approaching a fascist political theme. Quite the opposite, it hews strongly to classical Liberalism.
I'm personally not that happy about all this. I mean, I'm sure this will lead to a decent Spider-Man movie, maybe the best one made so far, and I'm happy for all the Spidey fans out there. But really, a third iteration of Spider-Man this soon? And by doing that and slotting that film into the crowded MCU schedule, it means other never before seen heroes such as Black Panther, Captain Marvel and the Inhumans get pushed back.
This means that their roles in the big films (Infinity War parts 1&2) might very well be negatively impacted also, since Black Panther now won't hit before part 1 and Inhumans won't hit before part 2.
So to me, this feels like a case of sticking with the safe, the popular, the known quantity, instead of continuing on with bringing lesser known characters to the fore, which is what the MCU has been built on. I wouldn't have minded if they came to this agreement and then introduced Spidey in Phase 4, after the already announced films, but to push back these new, interesting properties (including their first black leading man and their first leading woman) just feels a bit off to me.
And that's not to mention Sony retaining final creative control. Yeah, as others have said, they will likely play ball with Marvel and do more or less whatever Kevin Feige tells them to do, but there's still the potential for a sudden dip in quality control.
This means that their roles in the big films (Infinity War parts 1&2) might very well be negatively impacted also, since Black Panther now won't hit before part 1 and Inhumans won't hit before part 2.
So to me, this feels like a case of sticking with the safe, the popular, the known quantity, instead of continuing on with bringing lesser known characters to the fore, which is what the MCU has been built on. I wouldn't have minded if they came to this agreement and then introduced Spidey in Phase 4, after the already announced films, but to push back these new, interesting properties (including their first black leading man and their first leading woman) just feels a bit off to me.
And that's not to mention Sony retaining final creative control. Yeah, as others have said, they will likely play ball with Marvel and do more or less whatever Kevin Feige tells them to do, but there's still the potential for a sudden dip in quality control.
Name one significant direct action towards stopping a bad guy, ever, from a non-Superhero. Now, by Superhero, I mean a character with a superhero name, so no using Fury, Black Widow, Falcon, War Machine, Hawkeye or Starlord, abnd by direct, I mean they did it, not they told a Superhero to do it. Iron Man 1 - soldiers all get blown the fuck up, only Tony can stop the terrorists. Climax of Iron man 1 - same deal, but with SHIELD agents instead of soldiers. Iron Man 2 - the entire army is virtually powerless to stop Whiplash and have their entire system completely taken over, only Tony can stop him, the people just run screaming and die. Captain America - Cap breaks ranks, defies his superiors and goes in on a reckless and stupid mission that works. Avengers - we all know the scenes, the cops are utterly freaking clueless to properly evacuate in a time of crisis, they need a man from 1941 to tell them how to deal with post 9/11 attacks on New York. Cap 2 - regular SHIELD agents in the climax get absolutely butchered by the Winter Soldier in nothing flat. GOTG, the Nova corps are just tossed aside by Ronan like tissue paper when he gets bored. Hell, even in Thor 2, the trained Asgardian soldiers are just demolished by the Dark Elves, putting up less than a token resistance. I don't think they even managed to kill one.Jake Martinez said:
Point being, that in these movies, the people whose job it is to handle things, never do. The police never manage to successfully stop a crime, the army was losing bad until this one soldier broke ranks and started turning the tide by ignoring what people told him to, hell, the entire elected and approved protection agency turns out to have been hijacked by Nazis. Heroism is not something that can come to those who are trained for it, elected to it, or expected to deal with it, but only those few who deem themselves the protectors, and ignore all kinds of authority or reason beyond what they think they should do.
Contrast to ASM. Who saves Spidey from the Lizard? Chief of Police, there to do his job of shutting down the dangerous criminal in the OsCorp building. Who stops Electro the first time around? Spidey saved and protected all the people and prevented any fatalities, but Electro was actually stopped by the NYFD who dealt with a problem in Time Square how they are trained to do it. Who helped Peter to take down Electro and save the cities power grid? The person whose job it is to do just that, Gwen Stacey. These movies are about Spider-Man helping out and being helped out by the everyday heroes.
They're keeping on a lot of the Amazing Spiderman 2 team, including not-quite-disgraced Amy Pascal, so I'm suspicious that this move is more likely to derail Marvel's record than it is to improve Sony's. Still, Civil War is looking far more interesting than Avengers 2 by this point.
Personaly, for all the ways this could have happened, I think that this is actually the worst simply because of this one detail:
Sony will "continue to finance, distribute, own and have final creative control of the Spider-Man films."
I have no faith in Sony to make good creative desisions with Spider-Man. I can only hope that when they say they will collaborate with Marvel when doing there own movie it is simply business talk for Sony has the rights but Marvel tells them what to do now.
EDIT:
Now I am just pissed off this is happening. MArvel has moved release dates for some of its movies so that Spider-Man can keep up with the MCU which means we don't get an Inhumans movie until after Infinity War pt 2. Inhumans is far more interesting to me then a third Spider-Man reboot.
Sony will "continue to finance, distribute, own and have final creative control of the Spider-Man films."
I have no faith in Sony to make good creative desisions with Spider-Man. I can only hope that when they say they will collaborate with Marvel when doing there own movie it is simply business talk for Sony has the rights but Marvel tells them what to do now.
EDIT:
Now I am just pissed off this is happening. MArvel has moved release dates for some of its movies so that Spider-Man can keep up with the MCU which means we don't get an Inhumans movie until after Infinity War pt 2. Inhumans is far more interesting to me then a third Spider-Man reboot.
