Spoiler-rific Dark Knight Rises *****/moan/praise thread

ToastiestZombie

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Mar 21, 2011
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I loved it. But I can see why this movie would be a nuclear physicist's worst nightmare. I'm not one, so I enjoyed it. I'm also not one of the people who watches movies for the nitpicks, if you watch a movie and look out especially for nitpicks then I pity you. I really do.
 

drosalion

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BloatedGuppy said:
zelda2fanboy said:
4. On further reflection, I can sort of see why he didn't reconnect with Alfred. In theory, the League of Shadows is still out there somewhere, so it would be in everyone's best interests to assume that Bruce Wayne/Batman is dead (don't forget, the League of Shadows knows who Batman is/was). I mean, he killed Bane and Talia, but he also killed Ra's, so you never know. It was interesting though how the Ra's hallucination/thing seemed to provide new information to the plot. I guess he could have just heard it on the TV or from the doctor and it got jumbled in his mind.

Another question: The only reason Wayne would ever shack up with Catwoman is if she was fully reformed and quit stealing. So... what do they do for money? He's lost everything and even if he didn't, he couldn't get at it because he's in hiding. I imagine Selina Kyle would also have to be in hiding to avoid the wrath of the League of Shadows.

Also, about the bomb. Everyone looks at the flash, which would blind them in real life. I know it's just a movie, but they even mentioned that in True Lies with Tom Arnold yelling "don't look at the flash, don't look at the flash."
That's a fair point, but it's still a bit of a dick move letting him grieve for however long and then "SURPISE!" at a cafe. Grieving for a loved one is no fun, and Alfred is not a young man. He could've died from the stress. Bruce could have slipped him a note.

Maybe they're living off the largesse of Kyle's old career?

There's so many issues with that bomb we might as well just accept it was a magic future bomb and as such the normal rules of bombs did not apply.
Alfred quite blatantly laid out that it was essentially his wish for bruce that he'd just run off without telling anyone and he'd randomly see there and know that he was living/loving life
 

BloatedGuppy

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drosalion said:
Alfred quite blatantly laid out that it was essentially his wish for bruce that he'd just run off without telling anyone and he'd randomly see there and know that he was living/loving life
I'm quite familiar with Alfred's nonsensical wish, but even in that nowhere did Alfred say "It's my fondest wish to believe you dead, and then later to be surprised to find out you're still alive and living/loving life". He just didn't want him to come back to Gotham and be sad.
 

FinalDream

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Apr 6, 2010
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Unsilenced said:
I know this is a minor gripe, but was anyone else annoyed by the scene where a few dozen criminals all with high-caliber automatic weapons open fire on the dense pack of mostly unarmored cops and only...what, 3 die? And then, still clutching their fully loaded automatic weapons, they all engage in hand-to-hand combat?
I felt this was done to tone down the amount of violence in the film, and thus achieve a more child friendly rating.
 

Unsilenced

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FinalDream said:
Unsilenced said:
I know this is a minor gripe, but was anyone else annoyed by the scene where a few dozen criminals all with high-caliber automatic weapons open fire on the dense pack of mostly unarmored cops and only...what, 3 die? And then, still clutching their fully loaded automatic weapons, they all engage in hand-to-hand combat?
I felt this was done to tone down the amount of violence in the film, and thus achieve a more child friendly rating.
Yeah, also because otherwise it would be a really short scene before Gotham just straight-up ran out of cops.

Still, they couldn't have had them, like, taking cover behind cars or something? Give the criminals melee weapons and maybe some shotguns? No?
 

Lovely Mixture

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Unsilenced said:
I know this is a minor gripe, but was anyone else annoyed by the scene where a few dozen criminals all with high-caliber automatic weapons open fire on the dense pack of mostly unarmored cops and only...what, 3 die? And then, still clutching their fully loaded automatic weapons, they all engage in hand-to-hand combat?
I forgot how much that annoyed me. I mean with all the Bat-Tech they use, they could have at least had some electromagnet to disable the criminal's guns for a minute to give them an edge.

I agree entirely, that was rather silly.



Unsilenced said:
EDIT: Bane reading the letter also pissed me off. I mean come on, there's absolutely no way of anyone watching to verify that. He might as well have added "Also I'm a huge ****** lol" at the end of it. Who would know?
Good to see I'm not the only one who took issue with this.
 

Wolf In A Bear Suit

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I loved Batman despite the fact I predicted Miranda Tate's true nature after 5 minutes and called the ending to the very letter but these hole's really didn't bother me enough to not make me love the movie. The police vs thug scene was deadly
 

Aarowbeatsdragon

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zelda2fanboy said:
is fucking Robin? ...unless he becomes Nightwing. Actually that might be kind of cool.
People are misunderstanding this severely. He did not become robin. He did not become Nightwing. He became a new damn batman. The entire theme of this trilogy was that batman is a symbol and that he can be anybody. Hell he even says that a few minutes before it ends! sorry if that sounded harsher than intended i have just heard way too many people complain about that when theyre just getting it wrong.

OT: I loved everything...yep...everything...my favorite movie of all time.
 

Aarowbeatsdragon

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zelda2fanboy said:
I also thought it was ridiculous when Dangle from Reno 911 was like "You have no cartilage left in your knee." Then he puts on the black knee thingy, says "oww," and suddenly he's fine and can kick stuff. It's never mentioned again, it doesn't come up in the prison, and also that's not how arthritis/cartilage damage works.
That thing didnt fix his knee actually, with it on it helped him walk better.
 

zelda2fanboy

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ToastiestZombie said:
I loved it. But I can see why this movie would be a nuclear physicist's worst nightmare. I'm not one, so I enjoyed it. I'm also not one of the people who watches movies for the nitpicks, if you watch a movie and look out especially for nitpicks then I pity you. I really do.
I don't watch movies for the nitpicks, except in cases of a massive movie everyone will see. It gives me something to talk about with people, and when the movie is 2 hours and 45 minutes, it helps to keep me engaged. It's fun. Sure, there are movies that shut down my defenses and analysis and I just go with it, and there were some good stretches in this one where I could do that. Believe me, it's not "this is wrong and this wrong, so therefore this movie is bad." I liked the movie a lot.

Aarowbeatsdragon said:
People are misunderstanding this severely. He did not become robin. He did not become Nightwing. He became a new damn batman. The entire theme of this trilogy was that batman is a symbol and that he can be anybody. Hell he even says that a few minutes before it ends! sorry if that sounded harsher than intended i have just heard way too many people complain about that when theyre just getting it wrong.

OT: I loved everything...yep...everything...my favorite movie of all time.
Yeah, but I want him to become Nightwing because... Nightwing.
 

JoesshittyOs

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Aug 10, 2011
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I refuse to use spoiler tags because it's your own damn fault for being here in the first place.

The point of the big reveal at the end of the movie was because all of the records had been destroyed, and he basically was receiving the only evidence of his actual name to do with what he wanted. Hence with him taking the file.

I agree with that particular part of the ending. I think it would have been much better to leave it open. For instance, the last shot you see is Michael Caine just smiling and raising his glass at the restaurant.

The reason why he let everyone know he was back in the first place was for basically the whole point of Batman. Give hope and morale and all that to rally behind him.
 

The_Waspman

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Sep 14, 2011
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One of the things that killed the movie for me, and I had hoped it was just the screen I was in - but one of my friends who had seen it in a different screen agreed with me - was the fucking appalling sound mix. I'm not just talking about Banes voice either, I'm talking about the whole fucking film. The dialogue, the music, the reverb, there were whole scenes where I couldn't hear what the fuck people were saying because the sound was mixed so badly.

I also felt it had a similar problem to the Avengers near the beginning, in that it feels like there was another film in between this and the last one, and there was a lot of catching up to do. A lot of plot holes all over the place too. In trying to be more 'real' in the Nolan-verse, when some of these more Batmanish elements are introduced, it doesn't help the films case (the Batwing for example, doesn't fit at all)

All in all though, I thought it felt like much more of a sequel to Begins than Dark Knight. In fact, if it weren't for referring to Harvey Dent, you could remove Dark Knight altogether.
 

Tj Sprague

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Aug 20, 2010
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FalloutJack said:
Nope, sorry. I can't possibly listen to anyone bad-mouthing the movie. Not over all the CHEERING AND CLAPPING after the movie was over. I'm calling it worthy material and then bowing out of this discussion.
Amen
 

TheScientificIssole

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Jun 9, 2011
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I thought it was super rad! I thought the Scarecrow cameo was great, and think of it as a feat of film creation. Think of it! If you read all the stuff at the end(The nuke, Robin, Batman's "sacrifice") on a forum you would have hated it. But it was done so well. That it was great. I also think that Batman's sacrifice is almost a reflection on Harvey Dent's. Gotham had two martyrs, and Batman was one of them.
I love how the first movie is about Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, and the last is about Batman becoming Bruce Wayne. I thought even the smaller characters had their plots tied up. Like Gordon's old police buddy, who doubted the cause throughout the film, but ended up gladly dying for it.
 

Unsilenced

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Oct 19, 2009
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Regarding the nuke: I'd say that the device in itself falls under suspension of disbelief. Fusion power plants don't exist IRL, so we can't *really* say that a Batcore wouldn't look like that. Otherwise we'd have to get into things like how fucking laughable the batwing was.

Actually, hold that thought.

Fuck the batwing. That thing was a brick with a fucking propeller beanie on it. I could not even come close to forcing myself to believe that sack of shit could fly. I mean look at it's weight distribution! It has all the thrust in the back and all the weight in the front. Even if it's rotor wasn't in a fucking retarded position, it'd just do batflips all over itself!

But back to the reactor. I'm actually OK with that. Granted my major is engineering and not physics, but even I know that it shits on nuclear physics. That's ok. "Stupidly small and incredibly powerful power source" is something that occurs in pretty much any sci-fi that has ever been, ever.

What I don't get however is why it had a timer on it. Seriously. It was supposed to be a reactor. Why would you put a cartoonishly helpful and obvious bomb timer on something that wasn't supposed to explode? I mean sure there should be some sort of failure indicators on it, but the fact that right there, front and center was the "count down to kaboom" makes me wonder about the actual motives of making the thing. If I'm designing the U.I of something that's supposed to power homes, giving it a bomb timer would seem... you know. A bit inauspicious?

Lovely Mixture said:
Unsilenced said:
*batsnip*
I forgot how much that annoyed me. I mean with all the Bat-Tech they use, they could have at least had some electromagnet to disable the criminal's guns for a minute to give them an edge.

I agree entirely, that was rather silly.
It's nice to know that someone still cares when guns are horribly underpowered in movies. It's just so goddamned common. Either guns are utterly useless, or only wrist-breaker pistols work at all, and they're basically laser-accurate aim bot assisted zero-mass god machines with bullet portals to the bullet dimension.
 

Space Spoons

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Loved:
- Bane. Easily the best adaptation of the character.

- The fight scenes. Nolan's learned a lot about how to stage a fight since Batman Begins, and it shows. Every fight is brutal, visually interesting, and most importantly, not plagued by that awful shaky-cam that makes things needlessly difficult to follow.

- The Pit. I thought Nolan's interpretation was brilliant, turning the Lazarus Pit from a literal pit of restorative goop to a giant metaphor for R'az Al Ghul's "immortality" and Bruce's rejuvenation.

- The references. The story of TDKR is assembled piecemeal from Knightfall, No Man's Land and a little Year One thrown in for Catwoman's character. It was great to see the source material respected and brought to the silver screen in such an interesting way.

- John Blake: Nolan always said his Batman movies would never have a Robin. That bugged me, because I've always believed that Batman is at his best when he's working with others. Seeing that Nolan agrees was incredibly satisfying, and I thought the twist with John's real name was very clever.

- Michael Cain as Alfred: I teared up. There, I said it.

Hated:
- The audio mixing: When the first footage of Bane was released, there were complaints that he was ?too quiet? and ?too mumbly?. Evidently, the solution was to boost the volume of his voice (which, admittedly, helps a little), but he?s still difficult to understand in some scenes. The other audio issue is the music. Zimmer?s score is a triumph, incorporating stings and lemotifs from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight along with brand new pieces that work perfectly with every scene they accompany? They?re just entirely too loud. It was a struggle to hear the dialogue over the blasting music, to the point that during the finale, I couldn?t hear the actors at all. Hopefully they?ll fix that for the home release.

- Bale's Batman voice: It was bad in Begins, worse in The Dark Knight, and now it's just plain ridiculous. I understand the need for Bruce Wayne and Batman to have distinct voices, but Bale's Batman voice just sounds silly.

- The chases: Nolan really loves his chase scenes. Personally, I feel like they drag on for way too long. The movie would be better without most of them.
 

TheCommanders

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Nov 30, 2011
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I really liked the movie as a whole, even though it had a few issues. Quick list of my positives and negatives:

POSITIVES:

It had a happy ending
-No, arbitrarily having a sad ending or manufacturing events so the hero has to die doesn't automatically make your film/book/game deep and mature. Thank you Dark Knight for not attempting to be "dark" in the 16 year old emo sense.

Music
-Hanz Zimmer has never done a bad score, at least that I'm aware of

Bane is cool
-Some people didn't like it, but I think the posh voice with the rough appearance they were going for worked, even if he was occasionally hard to understand because of the mask. Also, the apathy with which he did everything was quite the contrast from Joker, for obvious reasons

Catwoman
-Do I need to go into why this is a good thing? Seriously? I wish they had established the romance between her and Batman earlier if that's what they were going to go with later (it really wouldn't be that hard), but I did always think that catwoman and batman would end up together if either of them were ever to retire... (speaking about all versions)

Commissioner Gordon
-Gary Oldman is his awesome self, although he didn't seem to get quite as much screen time as he should have

Gadgets
-They remembered to include batman's gadgets, good for them, and now I really want one of those flying things!

Action Sequences
-Gotta love the fact that the police thought they could corner batman... how cute...

Robin
-He really felt more like the protagonist than batman, which could be seen as a bad thing, but he did a good job playing the role of what Gordon probably was 20-30 years ago.


NEGATIVES

Time jumps
-They really need to make it clearer that time passed. I had no idea that the 3-5 month jump had occurred until someone mentioned it. But they mentioned it long after we were already supposed to have known about it! Slightly confusing.

Fist fights
-Catwoman's were cool, but Batman and Bane didn't seem very agile, although to be fair I guess it would be hard to move in a suit of armor...

Too much talking!!!!
-No, I'm not against story, but there was a little bit too much told by just blatantly saying it. Some moviegoers aren't so dumb that they need everything spelled out for them.

Pacing
-The beginning does take a little too long to get going, and during the middle, I was pretty confused as to what was going on because they skipped around so much. Shorten the beginning and stretch the middle out a bit and the pacing issues would have been more or less fixed.

Miranda Tate
-Pointless love interest that only served to get in the way of what *could* have been a much more interesting romantic subplot between batman and catwoman, but instead didn't work because of lack of time. Also, if you didn't predict her turning evil about 5 minutes into the film... then you haven't seen enough films, I guess.

The one big plot hole
-Maybe I'm missing something, but why exactly did they wait to blow up the city? They could have done it at any time, and were always going to destroy the city, so why wait and give the remaining good guys a chance to fight back?