Square Enix Explains Final Fantasy XIV's Unusual Experience System

[Cynical skeptic]

So that is the reason for all the stupidity. They don't want hardcore players to get an advantage? Although charging a monthly sub for a game they don't want you to play and will penalize you for playing does not make sense

you pay for Eve Online and level/train various skills automaticly.

essentially you pay for a game that you dont actually have to play to level up.

Seeing how much of a commercial success [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm] the other MMO Final Fantasy game was, you would think they would try to make a game more appealing to both casual and hardcore.

You bring up EVE online. A long time ago pretty much everyone who started playing day one had practically every skill at level 4 of 5. They all progressed at the same rate, some started as X, others as Y, but by a certain point, all these people were almost kings of all trades because how the skills were designed (level 1 takes an hour, level 2 takes 6 hours, level 3 takes 1.5 days, level 4 takes a week, level 5 takes two months (...its been a while, i know thats not exactly right)), it just made more sense to not limit yourself to a single field, especially if it was going to take a month to get another 5% to thrust.

The difference is CCP had somewhere to go from there. Need level 5 in x to open up higher tier skills. What squeenix is doing here is forcing everyone to play the exact same way or not at all... all so ultra casuals can level at the same rate in a specific job as people with no lives, while the people with no lives won't ever have to worry about needing any particular job, as they'll already have them all.

Now, as shitty as this is... I can't see it as a completely bad thing. If someone only has one or two jobs at [maximum possible level], they're ultra casual and thus know exactly dick abut the game. Thus are not worth grouping with, recruiting, or even speaking to. They are worthless. It gives the hardcore a very clear indicator of who knows what about the game. It will literally be impossible to infiltrate better guilds the way it is in WoW. Where someone else will always pick up your slack and the guild as a whole will never figure out exactly where they're lacking. But all in all, its going to have the exact opposite effect squeenix is intending.

 

[thetrue13th]

Yeah, the whole realism thing makes sense in a way. Like you can only learn so much from swinging your sword around before you need to change it up a bit. Like, ask a martial artist (IRL), even one that specialises in, say grapples, if grapples were all that they practiced, and they'd probably say no, as there's only so much to gain from one area of combat. Specialization isn't impossible in these circumstances; they're not forcing you to be a jack of all trades, just that eventually you will end up a master of some trades, rather that a master of one. Or to reference Tvtropes...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CripplingOverspecialization

 

[Twad]

It isnt about realism. Its about forcing players to put even more time grinding for XP for the game in order to stay "competitive"..

.. so i dont think it will solve anything at all. THose who grind the fastest/more efficiently will still have the same edge in a the game. It will just take significantly longer... and be as just as repetitive.

 

[kingcom]

So that is the reason for all the stupidity. They don't want hardcore players to get an advantage? Although charging a monthly sub for a game they don't want you to play and will penalize you for playing does not make sense

you pay for Eve Online and level/train various skills automaticly.

essentially you pay for a game that you dont actually have to play to level up.

Seeing how much of a commercial success [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm] the other MMO Final Fantasy game was, you would think they would try to make a game more appealing to both casual and hardcore.

You do realise that system is designed to constantly reward you for having a subscription right? The actually play time is about getting ISK (eves currency). When you are at a point where you can make large quantities of money, you can PAY FOR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION with in game currency.

 

[GestaltEsper]

This is actually pretty interesting. Not necessarily good, or bad to be honest, but interesting. Any other games use this? If so how'd it work out there?

 

[Zeromaeus]

I don't play most MMOs, and the ones I do, I only pick up for a week or so, then drop. Even then I only ever play free MMOs because I'm a cheap son of a *****.

That said, I had told myself I was going to give FF XIV a chance as soon as I got my new computer. Fat chance of that happening now. With this system in place, I would only ever play each class for an hour, because each quest I did afterward would be diminished in its potential value. That right there is the big deal breaker. I HATE grind. At least I hate mindless grind. Castlevania has earned my love, grind and all, but MMO grind is especially terrible. So diminishing the value of the grind I do engage in and the quests I complete is something I just won't pay you for. Secondly, I only wanted two general characters. A knight/dragoon based character and a blue/black mage character. That's it. I don't want to branch out into a fighter/black mage/thief/white mage. What's the point of having a party after that? The "you'd be just like everyone else" arguement comes into play too.
Geeze, SquareEnix, you make it hard for me to like you anymore. Ah well... So long as they don't screw up Kingdom Hearts III, I'll be happy.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

The clash of interests between 'casual' and 'hardcore' players in online games has nothing to do with the standard EXP (experience) system. This bizarre strategy does nothing to address the disparity. I must be missing something.

It's like improving soccer by banning designated hitters. It not only fails as a solution, it is incoherent as a solution.

 

[mikemart]

doesnt final fantasy online suck anyway?

 

[Canid117]

I thought the reason was

"Well we had all this cocaine on my desk one night and we thought that the cops were onto us so we had to get rid of the evidence. The problem is it was REAALLLY expensive coke and so we couldn't just bring ourselves to flush it. A few hours later after we had finished we learned the cops weren't onto us and decided that since we were already in the building we might as well start work early. After the haze wore off the system was already in place and we just didn't feel like changing it. And thats how the horribly thought out leveling system was implemented in Final Fantasy XIV."

Or something along those lines.

 

[SomebodyNowhere]

I'm confused about this. So there's no real classes, but instead upgradable jobs or something that you can change and upgrade independantly of eachother?

 

[Lagwalker]

Its not a time limit per say. They came up with a theoretical Max xp and skill a player could hit per hour. then multiplied that amount times 8.

To understand whats going on, you have to understand how skill and xp are gained. during combat Melee and Magic users have chances per action to gain Proficiency, at the end of the fight this proficiency is awarded to the player as class skill along with Physical xp.

this direct proficiency to skill translation happens up until you hit this magic number divined by the developers. at which point the equation changes a bit. once you get into surplus skill a percentage of your gained proficiency is awarded to you as Surplus skill. this percentage increases untill you are gaining more surplus then actual skill points and eventually all surplus.

the thing is for this to happen you have to be going at it straight on one class for 15 hours gaining there theoretical max the entire time. in the last phase of beta monsters were getting so much xp and skill that we managed to gain the amount of skill to get you to the shut down point way faster then they had intended and on top of that the fatigue was not degrading properly.

@Somebodynowhere
The armory system in xiv is pretty different. Each weapon has a skill set that goes along with it. Once you have learned those skills via leveling up your class rank via skill points gained from battle. once learned you have permanent access to that ability/skill/spell. even while using other weapons. how ever "Cross classed" abilities/skill/spells tend to be weaker or on longer reuse times, and sometimes the cost of using the skill is increased. your only allowed to set a finite number of skills at one time. so what ends up happening is players leveling up other classes to help augment the skill set of the class you want to play. while your doing this. the fatigue on your main class is cooling down.

 

[TheIr0nMike]

I actually like this idea. Unlike apparently everyone else here, I'm glad that there's an online game that doesn't punish people who actually like variety.

 

[Vohn_exel]

So... let me get this straight. Stealing a page from many popular casual games, you in effect put a limit on how much XP a person can mill at one given stretch. In a game you need to buy, and pay a monthly fee for. Furthermore, you justify this by suggesting people swap around to other classes during this time. Okay. Ignoring the fact that unless you have a lot of classes that'll still turn off the hardcore players in a huge way, this means any long-running character will work... EXACTLY like any other long-running character, being capable of all the same things, in all the same ways. Any and all uniqueness vanishes.

Which kills part of the point of these kinds of games re: the social element. You are always the tank, you are always the healer, etc, etc. Your gear is specialized for that, your selection of abilities or talents or feats or whatnot are taken with that goal in mind. To quote an old Penny Arcade strip about Phantasy Star Online, I just want to hit stuff with my sword. I want to be able to focus on my given role in a combat, not be stuck playing an entire poorly-specialized RPG squad in one lone body.

To sum up, this is a bad idea from a fiscal perspective, this is a bad idea from an escapism perspective, this is a bad idea from a fun-seeking perspective... it's just a bad idea. Period.

This. At least in my opinion. It's just a bad idea, and you're limiting the time we can play as any given job. I always pick a mage character. It's one of the things I like about MMO's, when I do play them, is that I get to play a fully mage class. It's not often I play MMO's, they're not really my type of game. But seriously this just sounds like a bad idea.

I don't like being limited when I'm playing a game, for any reason. Heck, thats why I used to buy gamesharks, just so when a game told me "no, this is a supposed to lose fight" I could summon Cthulu and while not always win, at least get his health down to zero and feel better when I died. Restrictions can breed creativity and ideas that use what you're given in ways never before thought of. However, restricting playtime will only serve to irritate people.

I doubt I'd ever play an mmo for eight hours. Heck, I don't play most games more then six, with my part time job. But I have to admit that I don't really like the thought of it not being there if I wanted to. I don't want to have to play a warrior if I want to play a mage. This is just a bad idea, and even though I'll probably never play this game, I hope they eventually tweak this system out.

 

[Weaver]

Japanese developers are getting worse every year.

I agree. In Japan there has been a lot of criticism about stagnation in the JRPG genre from fans and magazines there, however making "innovations" which are so obviously poor design choices and are polar extremes to what your gaming community is actually looking for is about the surest way to shake off fans.

I'm sure after FF13 and then the FF14 MMO even the die hard FF fans are going to have their faith in the series rattled. FF14 will be stillborn with this system.

 

[kementari]

Every time something new comes out about this game, I read it with a droll attitude, assuming I can't be surprised anymore.

And... yeah, I'm always wrong. Who is RUNNING this show?

What boggles my mind is that, in a AAA game development scenario, there have to be SEVERAL people who sign off on a major design idea like this. Wacko scenarios like this cannot just be the product of one crazy guy. MORE THAN ONE PERSON had to think this was a good idea.

It's almost humorous at this point, rather than rage-inducing or facepalm-inspiring. And that's... sad.

 

[Weaver]

Every time something new comes out about this game, I read it with a droll attitude, assuming I can't be surprised anymore.

And... yeah, I'm always wrong. Who is RUNNING this show?

What boggles my mind is that, in a AAA game development scenario, there have to be SEVERAL people who sign off on a major design idea like this. Wacko scenarios like this cannot just be the product of one crazy guy. MORE THAN ONE PERSON had to think this was a good idea.

It's almost humorous at this point, rather than rage-inducing or facepalm-inspiring. And that's... sad.

Not that I'm a cultural minister or Japanese expert, but I've read some stories of Japanese game development and even just business culture there in general. Your boss (aka the designer) is more or less never questioned. If you want to move up there, the best way is to simply be a yes man and work your ass off and basically commit it all to the company.

Essentially, while in the west design decisions are likely debated or even formed in groups, in Japan the designers word is more or less gospel (unless it's an impossible thing for the dev team to do).

edit: anyways this is just what I've read from limited and translated sources. I'm not going to pretend it's the universal truth, but it would explain things.

 

[The Arc of Eden]

"Dear Squar Enix,

We've had some fun times over the years, and you certainly have quite a few ideas on your hands. But I feel you have lost touch and gotten, more or less, Exponentially worse on your delivery. Please, if not for your sake... then for ours, have a seat, take a deep breath, and think ALL the way through your ideas before working your employees like slaves to meet unrealistic deadlines.

Sincerely Me"

 

[Miumaru]

"Komoto says the reason there is a time limit on accumulating XP for each character class is so that players with more time on their hands don't gain an advantage over those whose time is more limited."

Reeks of bullshit.

Why? I doubt they have little, if any, end-game content even in development right now, and instead of letting hardcore players get to the end in a few hours, they are going to force everyone to level along a more predictable, controlled timeline.


I think Komoto has played a little too much Mass Effect... he's sounding a lot like the Reapers...

"You have leveled and gained progress in the order we set forth since before you played our MMO, and when the time comes, you will be harvested"

Thank you, you gave me my first big laugh of the day. (I feel like that sounded sarcastic, Im being serious though)

 

[DTWolfwood]

Hope they get sued, not because they limit your play time but probably because they didn't tell you they limit your play time on the box. hah! XD