Square-Enix Isn't Sure Where to Take Final Fantasy
- Thread starter John Funk
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Then again, you can't really argue that Final Fantasy VII is the same as Kingdom Hearts or The World Ends with You. JRPGs do constantly shift as well, it's just the core of Square Enix's work, the numbered Final Fantasies, have pretty much the same story line and a vast majority of the rest of the JRPG designers take their queues from Final Fantasy, hence the problem. It's kind of like if everyone was following the lead of Halo even more then they already do (a frightening thought).Scrumpmonkey said:
The real problem with JRPGs is that they lack true maturity. Not "Nier" maturity where a skimpily clad girl swears at a book for a few minutes, the Bioshock maturity. Where they tackle complex themes and ideas, which isn't that foreign to JRPGs. I mean the Megami Tensei series and Xenogears do delve into philosophy to great effect. Hell, even Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is an interesting meta vision on the inherent problems with escapism in video games. Square just needs to be a bit crazier with their main franchise and maybe grow up a bit.
Oh and the genre with the widest range is, and probably always will be, the puzzler. (Braid, World of Goo, Layton, etc)
Some hints to JRPG developers that are stuck in a rut:
When people complain that JRPGs need to be "less anime" they don't mean you have to be "less Japanese". See Team Ico games, and Katamari Damacy for proof.
When people complain that your games are too linear, they aren't actually complaining about linearity. They just want to feel like they are more in control of their characters. See the Half-life series and Bioshock for proof.
When people complain about cut-scenes they're really complaining about a lack of storytelling in the gameplay. If the story is only progressing when the controller is put down, that's a problem.
In the end, stop making stupid game design mistakes just because they are conventions of your genre.
Sadly though, aside from those three titles I have trouble thinking of a JRPG that doesn't play just like an FF or DQ game. I guess that's why I still think that (sadly) the FPS genre actually does have more variety.
When people complain that JRPGs need to be "less anime" they don't mean you have to be "less Japanese". See Team Ico games, and Katamari Damacy for proof.
When people complain that your games are too linear, they aren't actually complaining about linearity. They just want to feel like they are more in control of their characters. See the Half-life series and Bioshock for proof.
When people complain about cut-scenes they're really complaining about a lack of storytelling in the gameplay. If the story is only progressing when the controller is put down, that's a problem.
In the end, stop making stupid game design mistakes just because they are conventions of your genre.
You forgot Demon's Souls.boredpulmonologist said:
Sadly though, aside from those three titles I have trouble thinking of a JRPG that doesn't play just like an FF or DQ game. I guess that's why I still think that (sadly) the FPS genre actually does have more variety.
Square-Enix Isn't sure where to take Final Fantasy? Really!? I had no idea...
Sarcasm aside I really think they should revive the Chrono series if anything. A new IP is fine too.
In the meantime I'll be waiting for Ar Tonelico 3.
Sarcasm aside I really think they should revive the Chrono series if anything. A new IP is fine too.
In the meantime I'll be waiting for Ar Tonelico 3.
I've never played Demon's Souls, but it always looked like it played a hell of a lot like a western rpg even though a japanese studio made it.boholikeu said:
Either way, there are more games out there. Knights of the Nightmare, Puzzle Quest, etc. But you're right, there should be more.
Then again, you could also argue that there are very very few FPSs that don't feel derived from Call of Duty 4 or Halo or Bioshock. The real problem is that the essential core of the JRPG is outdated. Having heroes and enemies line up on opposite ends of the pitch and then using drop menus to attack them is a lot less immersive than the current First Person Shooter ideal.
I still enjoy Final Fantasy Tactics like game play, but that's because it's like playing a more complex version of chess where I can develop the pieces. There is genuine strategy involved, where as in most Final Fantasy games the most complex they ever get is when you use a thunder attack against a watery looking enemy. I think the core of the JRPG just hasn't aged well (Aside from the whole "level up your character" aspect).
Square, since you got Matsuno back MAYBE you should have him take over since he's the most talented guy in the company.
To all those who keep saying "KILL THE SERIES IT SUCKS", shut the hell up. You have nothing intelligent, interesting or useful to add to the conversion, so just go away.
As for where they could go from here... Comedy!
Just drop the angst, the misery, the emo-ness, and go for broad laughter.
Satirize JRPG conventions. There's plenty of material.
Use classic JRPG mechanics, but tweak them so that they're silly.
Boss fights where you can only kill them in ridiculous ways.
The main party could be, like, traveling circus folk, or something.
As for where they could go from here... Comedy!
Just drop the angst, the misery, the emo-ness, and go for broad laughter.
Satirize JRPG conventions. There's plenty of material.
Use classic JRPG mechanics, but tweak them so that they're silly.
Boss fights where you can only kill them in ridiculous ways.
The main party could be, like, traveling circus folk, or something.
Get back to the basics.
Threaten to kill anyone who makes long cut-scenes (except for major chapter advances)
Eliminate ridiculously long combat-animation sequences - combat should not be interrupted
Create a sweeping worldwide storyline that starts out small and local and builds incrementally
Design characters whith different and unique abilities and plot interactions, so your choice of party members MATTERS, and none are useless. Honestly the Baldurs' Gate series provided a good model for how to manage different events, conversations, and character interactions that would impact the storyline while still allowing the overall plot to progress.
Enough with the goddamn mini-games. If they exist at all they should be optional, have no game-critical rewards, and should actually be fun to play.
Having a main character who's even remotely interesting would be nice. I'd like not to be thinking "please let the bad guys win" throughout the whole game.
Threaten to kill anyone who makes long cut-scenes (except for major chapter advances)
Eliminate ridiculously long combat-animation sequences - combat should not be interrupted
Create a sweeping worldwide storyline that starts out small and local and builds incrementally
Design characters whith different and unique abilities and plot interactions, so your choice of party members MATTERS, and none are useless. Honestly the Baldurs' Gate series provided a good model for how to manage different events, conversations, and character interactions that would impact the storyline while still allowing the overall plot to progress.
Enough with the goddamn mini-games. If they exist at all they should be optional, have no game-critical rewards, and should actually be fun to play.
Having a main character who's even remotely interesting would be nice. I'd like not to be thinking "please let the bad guys win" throughout the whole game.
They don't know what to do with the series? How about this...
WORK ON THE F***ING STORYLINE!!!! There hasn't been one intriguing storyline since X. XI had no real story as it was an MMO, XII got very boring very quick. In all honesty, I haven't played more than 30 minutes of XIII. The combat system put me off, though it was better than XII's. Sounds like a semi-interesting story though... not by much, I must add.
And bring back Turn-based combat. Or at least, make it so there's an option to play it with turn-based combat like the older games, if you really must have the real-time crap that's been spewing out since FFXI.
If you want an example of a game that came out after FFX that has a brilliant storyline AND Turn-based combat, go play Lost Odyssey. (FYI the original creator of the FF games, Hironobu Sakaguchi, works at Mistwalker, the company who made Lost Odyssey). That game alone proves that Turn-based combat still works just as brilliantly as it always used to
WORK ON THE F***ING STORYLINE!!!! There hasn't been one intriguing storyline since X. XI had no real story as it was an MMO, XII got very boring very quick. In all honesty, I haven't played more than 30 minutes of XIII. The combat system put me off, though it was better than XII's. Sounds like a semi-interesting story though... not by much, I must add.
And bring back Turn-based combat. Or at least, make it so there's an option to play it with turn-based combat like the older games, if you really must have the real-time crap that's been spewing out since FFXI.
If you want an example of a game that came out after FFX that has a brilliant storyline AND Turn-based combat, go play Lost Odyssey. (FYI the original creator of the FF games, Hironobu Sakaguchi, works at Mistwalker, the company who made Lost Odyssey). That game alone proves that Turn-based combat still works just as brilliantly as it always used to
( i didn't read the other comments i just wanted to post this, sue me) don't know where to take ti? how about take it to a giant fire and throw everything to do with the series into said fire then yourself
