Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Filled discussion thread (no spoiler tags, you've been warned)
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Know what was the most disappointing though? They had The Raid crew in... and they didn't let them use their amazing martial arts to create an amazing spectacle with. How can you have martial artists from one of the best martial arts movies ever made and only have one say like two lines and then cast them aside?
Well to be fair, galactic events do kind of conspire and revolve around the Skywalker dynasty. You could argue that lineage is a "Mary Sue" in the respect that everything of note in the film series tilts on whatever the Skywalkers happen to be up to.Dazzle Novak said:
I'm sympathetic to that, but I'm curious at that juncture what it is you LIKE about Star Wars. Serious minded science fiction this is not. You've got ships lined up like naval vessels all within the range of human eyesight poking at each other with lasers. You've got aliens and humans all co-existing comfortably in the atmosphere of dozens of different planets without any kind of assistance. You've got a mystical "force" that is a stand in for 'magic did it' that defines the central protagonist/antagonist factions of the series. The list goes on and on.Dazzle Novak said:
I guess I made my peace with its camp and cornball elements a long time ago, and view them as part of its essential charm.
To be clear, I'm not saying that about Luke. I'm not going to pull out some "Mary Stew" bullshit here because we're talking about STAR WARS, which is essentially a fantasy/magic tale in space. I'm just saying I agree with Yojoo's point that Rey's ascendance in TFA is in keeping with Luke's ascendance in ANH, and if people accept the latter but not the former, well, that's just inconsistent.Dazzle Novak said:
Side Note: I had to Google "Bella Swan."
True, the ship does need a couple people to crew it well. My GF also mentioned that she could be his co-pilot, going forward. Which I think depends on how long of a time jump they are going to make between Ep.7 and 8. I suspect they are going to jump forward a few years, with some "flashbacks" showing Rey and Luke's initial conversations, so that when 8 starts off they can have Rey have a bit of training under her belt, Kylo Ren would have had time to head back to Snoke to "complete his training", and Finn will have recovered and joined the Resistance proper. During that time, I don't think that Chewbacca is going to playing dejarik with R2 on the Falcon for a few years straight, so he's probably going to be going off-world a bit with the ship (maybe head back to Kashyyyk for a Life Day special.)Saltyk said:
They wouldn't have needed to dedicate a quarter of the new film to fan service if the previous three hadn't alienated and disgruntled a substantial portion of the fan base. Did you think they were going to be wildly experimental? What if it flopped? Do you think the fans would be tolerant of a fourth shit show? Disney paid FOUR BILLION DOLLARS for the franchise. Of course they played it safe.He Rode Alone said:
Expecting them to continue doing it going forward, given they have plans for six of the things already and likely more beyond that, is demonstrative of where the cynicism in this discussion actually lies.
I took that to mean that to mean that he wasWhatislove said:
A.) hyped up on adrenaline and/or relying on a part of his training to ignore the pain and persevere
B.) superior enough of a fighter/force user that he's able to shrug his way through all that punishment and still give Rey a run for her money until it all catches up to him at the end, thus allowing her to get the upper hand.
Either option, not even taking into account that it's likely both at the same time, could account for the events as displayed. I don't see how it's farcical to think that a complete psychopath could manage to shrug off such grievous injury for at least some time before succumbing to his wounds.
I'll politely disagree with the argument that Abrams and crew "played it safe." They made a female the main character cast a complete unknown in the role, they made a black Stormtrooper the other main character, they re-introduced Han Solo as a burned-out has-been, they split up Han and Leia, they made Han and Leia's kid a murderous Dark Sider, they made Luke almost entirely absent from the film, and, the coupe de grace (no pun intended)...they killed Han Solo, not in some selfless, heroic act to save the Republic/Resistance or his friends but at the hands of his son in a heartbreaking, failed effort to turn him back from the dark side. I'd say they made some pretty bold choices in this film, and I give Kasdan, Arndt and Abrams all the credit in the world for doing what George Lucas NEVER would have had the balls to do.BloatedGuppy said:
In Canon, Luke was only able to fly the mission against the Death Star in a New Hope after passing a flight simulation. One that he failed within 30 seconds on his first attempt. He only passed it after talking to Wedge, the best pilot among the Rebels. He then beat Wedge's performance, which is why he was allowed to fly. Wedge it should be noted survived all three movies and he was among the people who destroyed the second Death Star.Dazzle Novak said:
To be fair, I'm certain that Rey is Luke's daughter. She wanted to return to Jakku to wait for the people who left her there, presumably her parents. Anakin's old lightsaber seemed to call to her. And when she took hold of it, she had visions. I think some of those things may have been things she saw as a child, like Luke and R2. If true, she has just as much potential in the Force as Kylo.Dazzle Novak said:
I actually think it is possible that she may have had some training when she was young and might not remember it. Even if she doesn't, we saw her fight off some attackers on Jakku, Finn was rushing to save her until he saw she was winning. And even when she was fighting Kylo, she spent the first half of the running from him. It was only when she was cornered and Kylo commented on her needing a master that she was able to focus and win.
Beyond that Kylo was obviously holding back. He may have sensed she was family, but also seemed to want to train her. He was badly injured by Chewie, and not fully trained himself. And let's not forget that he had killed his own father. I don't think he was unaffected by that. The movie suggested that he was struggling with committing to the Dark Side, so I don't think patricide left him unscathed emotionally. And, people have already suggested that Luke's wife from the EU may be canon, and she was a Jedi. So, Rey could actually have far greater potential with the force than Kylo. All of which could explain how she could overpower him.
This is all speculation, of course. One of the movies strengths is that it didn't feel the need to sit down and explain everything to us. Instead deciding that we knew the basics of Star Wars and we are smart enough to figure out a lot of the background information with minimal explanation and context.
I think Chewie will be the co-pilot, even if it's his ship. He always took that seat and Rey seems like a competent pilot.kris40k said:
That seems like a fair guess for the next movie's timeline. It would allow for the characters to grow into their roles. Besides, the original movies obviously had rather extensive time skips between them.
I am curious to see how the characters come into their roles. Especially since it seems Finn is taking the role of Leia in the movies. The bad ass normal who comes up with plans and leads the forces on the ground.
Considering that she spent her entire life fighting a not one, but TWO politically powerful jedi who'd gone rogue with power, it may be that Leia decided to say "Nope" to the whole "Become someone likely to go totes cray and try to take over the galaxy"jamail77 said:
Also - When Ren was fighting Rey for most of that, it was his other sword in control most of the time.
Well...no, not really.wizzy555 said:
They make a big deal that she was left behind by her parents but they're never coming back, and somehow has force powers. Then we learn Luke failed at training Padawans and went into hiding, never to come back. Then Anakin's lightsaber calls to her directly and she hears the memories of him killing Younglings and the fall of Ben Solo. Then we learn she has some mastery of the Force when she convinces Daniel Craig(seriously, it was him in that StormTrooper uniform!) to let her go, then she picks up the lightsaber to fight Kylo, closes her eyes and boom! Its like she's already been trained or at least had some schooling. And then R2 wakes up to give her the final map that leads to Luke, to be trained by him much the same way Yoda trained Luke. And remember how during that training, Yoda let Luke in on the secret of who his father was?
And THEN you remember she lives in an AT AT with a rebel pilot helmet that belonged to her father(totally not referencing Hoth, no) and in the 2nd teaser trailer Luke has a monologue saying "The Force is strong in my Family. My Father had it. I have it. My Sister has it. You have that power too." And that line doesn't appear in the movie. So its either cut and will appear in the extended edition(doubtful) or its something from the 2nd movie about Rey and her origins.
Get it?
And THEN you remember she lives in an AT AT with a rebel pilot helmet that belonged to her father(totally not referencing Hoth, no) and in the 2nd teaser trailer Luke has a monologue saying "The Force is strong in my Family. My Father had it. I have it. My Sister has it. You have that power too." And that line doesn't appear in the movie. So its either cut and will appear in the extended edition(doubtful) or its something from the 2nd movie about Rey and her origins.
Get it?
That dialogue was from ROTJ. They had Hamill re-record it, and they changed the order of it. It was just for the teaser.Silentpony said:
I'm 95% sure you're correct though, clues point overwhelmingly to her being Luke's daughter, or as an absolute reach his niece.
Here's the thing. First of all I'll start by saying that most people here seem to know fuck all about how The Force works. The reason why force sensitive users can fight with lightsabers effectively is the Force. More specifically it's Force Focus. Another thing to consider is that ability to focus using the Force is what the light side of the force is better at. Dark side is better at destructive and flashy powers like lighting, choke, stopping blaster fire etc. And Kylo Ren is an emotionally unstable dark force user. He IS useless with a lightsaber. For now because he's just an apprentice who's not even done with his training. I don't even know why people assume that he was supposed to be highly skilled. Who said that he was? The movie makes it pretty clear that he isn't. The director showed us Kylo's emotional outbursts on several occasions and then Kylo got shot by the Bowcaster. Anyone who thinks that he stood a chance in a fight against another force sensitive user doesn't know a god damn thing about Star Wars. And don't even start with what you've learned about Star Wars from EU because that's over like it never existed. Go back and watch the original trilogy. This is Yoda 101.TheRightToArmBears said:
Return of the Jedi? Really? Well then who was he talking too? Someone that wasn't his dad, himself or his sister...who else was there? Yoda? Why would he be telling Yoda about the Force?BloatedGuppy said:
It was verbatim the discussion he had with Leia. They re-cut and re-ordered the dialogue and added the line about his sister for a teaser trailer.Silentpony said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-hamill-voice-over-star-wars-teaser-trailer-2015-4
Oh shit right, I forgot about that.kris40k said:
Okay so it was the "you have it too" line that was added, I presume.
Jesus I just watched it like two weeks ago, my memory is a calamity.
kris40k said:
Fair enough, but I still maintain my larger point is accurate. She is very clearly a Skywalker or its nothing but red herrings, like when JJ said Khan totally wasn't in Into Darkness.BloatedGuppy said: