Star Wars Gets Its First Canonical LGBT Character

[Ukomba]

Your math is a bit fuzzy. While it's true that that may may exist, you can't take the total population of the galaxy and do the math with that. Take the number of characters that have appeared long enough to get any kind of information about them, and it should be human characters only since the rates in other species are impossible to know, or might infact be impossible (as with the hutts or droids). Since we have 3 or so examples, that would support a population of ~100 defined human characters.

Oh, I'm making a crapton of assumptions there, just making the point that this huge thing in the lives of so many people isn't really reflected in Star Wars at all.

Except that we already established that it is addressed, and given the sample size we have of characters, it's pretty close to the right percentage too. There being '3800 billion' of them is irrelevant since it's all sample size and percentage. for every 100 or so character who you get to know well enough to know their preferences, ~3-4 won't be straight. I'm not sure what more they could do on the subject. Would you really want a "Millennium Falcon" style book delving into it's history through a succession of characters?

 

[BonGookKumBop]

Yay! One more besides Juhani... There's still a statistically ridiculous absence of LGBT characters in that universe. I guess the Force makes everyone super straight.

Not straight, abstinent. Remember, Anikan was being bad by being heterosexual, or sexual in any form. I guess his kids were just carrying on the family tradition in episodes 4-6.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Seriously though, fine article and all but one black guy?

Come on now I know people on this site hate on the prequels a lot but Mace Windu was freakin awesome...and he was Samuel L. Jackson! Why do people consistently leave him out!?

Because they didn't ...

Star Wars is a great example - for decades the galaxy far, far away only had one black guy, and people were still shaking their heads at the thought of a second wearing Stormtrooper armor

OT: Might as well repeat what others have said. I'm all for diversity, and I get the reasons why people make a larger deal out of LGBT characters than others, but must we make this much of a big deal?

Honestly, I've never even heard of this book, but it seems I can add it to the ever growing pile of videogames, movies, TV shows and books where the first thing I ever hear about it is the fact that one of the characters falls into the LGBT category. Not to mention, the vast majority of the time LGBT doesn't really makes sense, LB would be more descriptive. People seem to want to be inclusive, but not too inclusive, and so we have a string of hot lesbians and bisexual women since they are the safe option.

Wake me up when they add a gay guy, or a transgender/transexual character. That at least would be note worthy.

 

[Fallow]

Meh, not news.

I always just assumed SW had the same distribution of sexualities that we do, kinda makes sense. And given that I only know of two romances in the movies, one of which *had to* be heterosexual to introduce Leia and Luke, it never made any sense to point at various people and go "Hey btw, that guy is LGBT! Aren't we diverse?! Arent we *inclusive*!?" in the most Yahtzish tone you could muster.

If anything, they should talk about the black guy. He's all alone in the entire universe, and for some reason no-one is asking him why he's black (inb4 "omg! you can't ask a guy why he's black"). If I hadn't seen a black guy in the entire universe, then suddenly found one, I'd be curious about that.

Anyhoo, on topic: The book is going to suck. As pointed out earlier, if a key selling point is "there's a lesbian Muff on a Moff" you can be damn sure there was nothing better to use for PR. It's just like when Evolve gives you that pitch about 1.5 bajillion different variations of the campaign, but in reality there's only 6 maps and the gameplay is the same regardless.

 

[Fanghawk]

Your math is a bit fuzzy. While it's true that that may may exist, you can't take the total population of the galaxy and do the math with that. Take the number of characters that have appeared long enough to get any kind of information about them, and it should be human characters only since the rates in other species are impossible to know, or might infact be impossible (as with the hutts or droids). Since we have 3 or so examples, that would support a population of ~100 defined human characters.

Oh, I'm making a crapton of assumptions there, just making the point that this huge thing in the lives of so many people isn't really reflected in Star Wars at all.

Except that we already established that it is addressed, and given the sample size we have of characters, it's pretty close to the right percentage too. There being '3800 billion' of them is irrelevant since it's all sample size and percentage. for every 100 or so character who you get to know well enough to know their preferences, ~3-4 won't be straight. I'm not sure what more they could do on the subject. Would you really want a "Millennium Falcon" style book delving into it's history through a succession of characters?

I think we're in disagreement about how well addressed it is. All you've established is that there are a few non-straight humans for every 100 straight humans (which is tenuous and doesn't quite work because Juhani wasn't human - but let's assume that's correct). That's not the same thing as actually answering what it's like for someone who's gay in this universe. Are they fully accepted as equals? Do they face Imperial imprisonment for their leanings? Hell, the Jedi are a religious order: Do they look down on it as a perversion of the Force? No clue!

I get how weird these questions can sound, but Star Wars answers so many questions about every ridiculous race and culture - in Millenium Falcon style books even - but doesn't spend any substantial time on this. Probably the most recognized example is Juhani from Knights of the Old Republic, and the only way to find that out is if you're playing as a Dark Side female. That's not well-established - that's two levels of non-canon in a game that may have been retconned. I didn't even know she was gay until today, and I played that game over a decade ago.

It doesn't have to be that way. Lots of franchises say "yes people are gay" without making a big deal of it. But Star Wars didn't really have answers it just avoided the questions, until editors and writers speak up like this. (Note that I haven't read Legacy of the Force or played The Old Republic so it's a little clearer in those.)

This is a really interesting conversation by the way, I hope it's not being taken as argumentative or anything.

 

[ki11joyace]

Is there a ridiculous amount of Star Wars novels and games? In fact I even found a gay Mandalorian couple in a few clicks (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Goran_Beviin)
He's married to Medrit Vasur, so its 2 married men.

Luxa flirts with either gender.
(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luxa)

Article isn't too newsworthy; no one ever said there weren't gay characters in Star Wars, they probably just never cared about that sort of thing. Too many Death Stars and Sithlords to deal with.

The novel won't be anything groundbreaking, but hey, some gay people might like to read it because they can relate. That's fine, good on the writer for writing it. This seems like the type of thing to mention in a complete review, not a new story.

 

[Ukomba]

Your math is a bit fuzzy. While it's true that that may may exist, you can't take the total population of the galaxy and do the math with that. Take the number of characters that have appeared long enough to get any kind of information about them, and it should be human characters only since the rates in other species are impossible to know, or might infact be impossible (as with the hutts or droids). Since we have 3 or so examples, that would support a population of ~100 defined human characters.

Oh, I'm making a crapton of assumptions there, just making the point that this huge thing in the lives of so many people isn't really reflected in Star Wars at all.

Except that we already established that it is addressed, and given the sample size we have of characters, it's pretty close to the right percentage too. There being '3800 billion' of them is irrelevant since it's all sample size and percentage. for every 100 or so character who you get to know well enough to know their preferences, ~3-4 won't be straight. I'm not sure what more they could do on the subject. Would you really want a "Millennium Falcon" style book delving into it's history through a succession of characters?

I think we're in disagreement about how well addressed it is. All you've established is that there are a few non-straight humans for every 100 straight humans (which is tenuous and doesn't quite work because Juhani wasn't human - but let's assume that's correct). That's not the same thing as actually answering what it's like for someone who's gay in this universe. Are they fully accepted as equals? Do they face Imperial imprisonment for their leanings? Hell, the Jedi are a religious order: Do they look down on it as a perversion of the Force? No clue!

I get how weird these questions can sound, but Star Wars answers so many questions about every ridiculous race and culture - in Millenium Falcon style books even - but doesn't spend any substantial time on this. Probably the most recognized example is Juhani from Knights of the Old Republic, and the only way to find that out is if you're playing as a Dark Side female. That's not well-established - that's two levels of non-canon in a game that may have been retconned. I didn't even know she was gay until today, and I played that game over a decade ago.

It doesn't have to be that way. Lots of franchises say "yes people are gay" without making a big deal of it. But Star Wars didn't really have answers it just avoided the questions, until editors and writers speak up like this. (Note that I haven't read Legacy of the Force or played The Old Republic so it's a little clearer in those.)

This is a really interesting conversation by the way, I hope it's not being taken as argumentative or anything.

What your describing sounds like something you'd get out of a chapter of a Star Wars Tabletop RPG manual, between the one about inter-species relations and the one on organic to inorganic. I don't really need to know the Naboos Supreme courts ruling on Michael vs Palpatine or Moff Shild's view on hive queen to hive queen marriage.

The answer for Jedi and Sith should be rather easy though. All love is forbidden to Jedi, and Sith do what ever they dam well please.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Yay! One more besides Juhani... There's still a statistically ridiculous absence of LGBT characters in that universe. I guess the Force makes everyone super straight.

Well Jedi aren't meant to be in romantic relationships so that's a small part of the community that cant openly declare interest gay, straight or otherwise while Sith follow no such restrictions though I never recall a Sith going on a date either. Although they are saying this is the first Canonical character so it's a moot point I guess to say the universe prior mostly followed the actions of Religious celibate warriors priests roughly.

Edit/Spoiler:

Spoiler

Anakin Skywalker being an exception of course.

Well, it's not quite that simple though, is it?
Yedi aren't expected to be celibate, but they aren't allowed to form emotional attachments to people (or things).
(guess it could be a little inspired by buddhist philosophy).
Now, technically you see them break this all the time, but still...

Ironically it means a jedi can just go out and have sex for the fun of it, but isn't allowed to have an actual stable relationship with anyone... >_<

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

you ever see yoda macking on bitches? No. How about mace windu? also no? How many characters in the star wars films even have sexuality portrayed? Luke, Han, Leia, Vadar, Amidala. Did I miss any? 5? ooooooooh so terrible that none of them are gay.

 

[Aurion]

Whenever someone points to diversity as a selling point for a book, I can't help but wonder if that's really the best pitch they've got for said book.

Call me cynical, but I'd rather hear something about the actual quality of the yarn.

Or to put it another way:
"That's nice. Is it good, though?"

Then again, it's new SW:EU so I suppose I should adjust my expectations to zero to begin with.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Look, making this news is basically saying "Hi, we're not homophobic assholes! We want you to feel included! Welcome aboard! Enjoy the new stuff coming out!" for what ever reason.
Coz people bothered by the lack of inclusion might just be repulsed by the largely, if not frikking entirely straight universe where everything BUT LGBT exists, like it got scrubbed out a long time ago.
Ya know, people jaded of stuff not being marketed towards them? Yeah yeah, "star wars is for everybody" so long as you like straight relationships all the time.
Coz this stuff happens. People can, and do tune off shows that are exclusively white, black, male, female, etc. because they feel like nothing's really familiar to them.
As fans, why do you want to limit the marketing? Wouldn't it be great if more fans happened so you can actually talk geek with them? Sure they may not be as caught up, but they'll get there provided ya don't fuck it up for them.

Coz it ACTUALLY helps when there's some olive branch extended, damnit. It could lead to more LGBT relationships if people would stop bitching about it's inclusion like it's the worst fucking thing out there. "Oh, why's this news? Nuuu! I don't wanna hear it!"
Well, maybe this news isn't fucking marketed towards you? How ya like not being marketed to? Coz that's something a fair amount of people deal with on a large scale across mediums.

/rant

 

[Haerthan]

Great. If they are making this as something of an importance, than the film is even more shittier than I imagined.
It's despicable - to use gay characters as a universal shield against all problems and canon raping that this film will produce.
Urgh.

Hey dude. Your "canon" is already DEAD. Disney killed it last year. So canon raping isnt happening anytime soon.

Yay! One more besides Juhani... There's still a statistically ridiculous absence of LGBT characters in that universe. I guess the Force makes everyone super straight.

Juhani isnt canon anymore. Nor is any game prior to 2014 that is set in SW.

Well I remember the Mandalorian couple. But of course most people tend to ignore those books because of Karen Traviss....

I sure don't. it actually shows that using a "gasp" slave army "gasp" isn't a good idea. And lets fucking face it the clones were bred for one thing and one thing only: to fight. No choice, no voice, no rights. Hell even the Clone Wars show had an episode on that. I was hoping for the clone to escape to be honest, even if he did betray his brothers. And it shows the Jedis as hypocrites spouting BS one minute and then taking control of a slave army.

ON TOPIC: it seems interesting to say the least. A female Moff advancing... wait a minute, the old canon is dead. Does that make the Empire still sexist or not? Maybe they were sexist, but not homophobic? Let me pick up the pieces of my blown mind for a minute. I mean come on blowing up a planet is bad enough in itself.

Ok. I am good. So interesting, maybe they will rework the empire to not be such evil Space Nazis. I mean come on blowing up one planet is more than enough to cement their "evilness" right? They don't need to make it worse.

 

[Aurion]

Look, making this news is basically saying "Hi, we're not homophobic assholes! We want you to feel included! Welcome aboard! Enjoy the new stuff coming out!" for what ever reason.
Coz people bothered by the lack of inclusion might just be repulsed by the largely, if not frikking entirely straight universe where everything BUT LGBT exists, like it got scrubbed out a long time ago.
Ya know, people jaded of stuff not being marketed towards them? Yeah yeah, "star wars is for everybody" so long as you like straight relationships all the time.
Coz this stuff happens. People can, and do tune off shows that are exclusively white, black, male, female, etc. because they feel like nothing's really familiar to them.
As fans, why do you want to limit the marketing? Wouldn't it be great if more fans happened so you can actually talk geek with them? Sure they may not be as caught up, but they'll get there provided ya don't fuck it up for them.

Coz it ACTUALLY helps when there's some olive branch extended, damnit. It could lead to more LGBT relationships if people would stop bitching about it's inclusion like it's the worst fucking thing out there. "Oh, why's this news? Nuuu! I don't wanna hear it!"
Well, maybe this news isn't fucking marketed towards you? How ya like not being marketed to? Coz that's something a fair amount of people deal with on a large scale across mediums.

/rant

And yet.

If the book is bad it's so much chaff in the wind, unfortunately.

On the plus side, if it is people might even learn something. The first time you buy something that's terrible because the marketing appealed to your political sensibilities is something you never quite forget going forward.

 

[Grumman]

And it shows the Jedis as hypocrites spouting BS one minute and then taking control of a slave army.

The issue is not that the Jedi are bad people, but that as written by Lucas they are bad people, because Lucas is a bad writer. If one can find an in universe fix for such an out of universe problem that's great, but if you can't it is better to simply cut out the cancer by declaring the story uncanon.

 

[Lightspeaker]

That's not the same thing as actually answering what it's like for someone who's gay in this universe. Are they fully accepted as equals? Do they face Imperial imprisonment for their leanings? Hell, the Jedi are a religious order: Do they look down on it as a perversion of the Force? No clue!

See...I've just been working on the assumption that its viewed as "no big thing" in that particular universe. So the very concept of there being questions over it just doesn't exist. As you put it...fully accepted as equals...but implicitly so the question just doesn't even occur to people; or even make sense as a question, because its just a normal feature of a person.

I mean...when you're talking about a universe where people of different SPECIES get together I don't think homosexual relationships within a species are likely to be viewed as quite such an issue. And I think for a lot of people watching it was just a case of "yes, there's a huge diverse universe out there; now when's the next lightsabre battle?"

Which has somewhat left me totally confused on the issue of "this actually needed to be spelled out to people?" I mean I may be projecting my somewhat idealistic view of equality unless demonstrated otherwise onto it here but still...

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Look, making this news is basically saying "Hi, we're not homophobic assholes! We want you to feel included! Welcome aboard! Enjoy the new stuff coming out!" for what ever reason.
Coz people bothered by the lack of inclusion might just be repulsed by the largely, if not frikking entirely straight universe where everything BUT LGBT exists, like it got scrubbed out a long time ago.
Ya know, people jaded of stuff not being marketed towards them? Yeah yeah, "star wars is for everybody" so long as you like straight relationships all the time.
Coz this stuff happens. People can, and do tune off shows that are exclusively white, black, male, female, etc. because they feel like nothing's really familiar to them.
As fans, why do you want to limit the marketing? Wouldn't it be great if more fans happened so you can actually talk geek with them? Sure they may not be as caught up, but they'll get there provided ya don't fuck it up for them.

Coz it ACTUALLY helps when there's some olive branch extended, damnit. It could lead to more LGBT relationships if people would stop bitching about it's inclusion like it's the worst fucking thing out there. "Oh, why's this news? Nuuu! I don't wanna hear it!"
Well, maybe this news isn't fucking marketed towards you? How ya like not being marketed to? Coz that's something a fair amount of people deal with on a large scale across mediums.

/rant

And yet.

If the book is bad it's so much chaff in the wind, unfortunately.

On the plus side, if it is people might even learn something. The first time you buy something that's terrible because the marketing appealed to your political sensibilities is something you never quite forget going forward.

If it fails, it'll prolly be blamed on the inclusion of someone not straight, and used to damn any further attempts no matter WHY the book failed, be it writing, release date, price, physical quality of the book, release areas, print run, or any combination of anything even if the inclusion of an LGBT element didn't have anything to do with the book failing. Hell, the attempt might een be sabotaged internally just to create the self fulfilling prophecy that only straight characters sell. ... as you can tell, my views on entertainment industries are not very shiny.

It kinda depends on how strong a person's values are, I guess if buying something through political motivation.
I have a friend that almost exclusively played games with female leads, and there was a considerable drought of them not very long ago. She bought "Amy" an indie game and pretty well hated it. It wasn't a great game. It didn't dent her wanting to find more games with female leads, though.
Likewise, I bought Hydrophobia which hadn't dampened my enthusiasm for female lead games despite not being a great game.

 

[Haerthan]

And it shows the Jedis as hypocrites spouting BS one minute and then taking control of a slave army.

The issue is not that the Jedi are bad people, but that as written by Lucas they are bad people, because Lucas is a bad writer. If one can find an in universe fix for such an out of universe problem that's great, but if you can't it is better to simply cut out the cancer by declaring the story uncanon.

Umm dude. The Jedis taking control of a slave army was made known in Episode II and referenced in Episode IV. Karen Traviss just expanded on it by making a Mando clan consisting of a bunch of clone commandos, a Jedi who left the order because of said hypocrisy, a Twilek, 2 accountants for the Republic, one Mando and his daughter, another Mando and his strill, a dead Jedi and her baby with a clone commando (adoption works posthumous for Mandos, and the baby was born before her death).

Edit: Boy were some of those clones and Mandos pissed off when Order 66 went down. And not for the usual reasons either. It has to do with the dead Jedi mother. Seriously read the books. The Republic and Imperial Commmando series. They are good. People that don't live KArren Traviss just aggrandize the Old Republic Jedi.

 

[Ukomba]

And it shows the Jedis as hypocrites spouting BS one minute and then taking control of a slave army.

The issue is not that the Jedi are bad people, but that as written by Lucas they are bad people, because Lucas is a bad writer. If one can find an in universe fix for such an out of universe problem that's great, but if you can't it is better to simply cut out the cancer by declaring the story uncanon.

Umm dude. The Jedis taking control of a slave army was made known in Episode II and referenced in Episode IV. Karen Traviss just expanded on it by making a Mando clan consisting of a bunch of clone commandos, a Jedi who left the order because of said hypocrisy, a Twilek, 2 accountants for the Republic, one Mando and his daughter, another Mando and his strill, a dead Jedi and her baby with a clone commando (adoption works posthumous for Mandos, and the baby was born before her death).

Edit: Boy were some of those clones and Mandos pissed off when Order 66 went down. And not for the usual reasons either. It has to do with the dead Jedi mother. Seriously read the books. The Republic and Imperial Commmando series. They are good. People that don't live KArren Traviss just aggrandize the Old Republic Jedi.

The Clone Wars were referenced in Ep IV but not who's side they were on. Before the prequels, all the lore, even the Empire Strikes Back Novels suggested the Jedi fraught against the Clone Masters to protect the republic. In the end defeated the mysterious Mandalorian warriors.

But a trade despite and droids were apparently more convenient. Anakin blowing up a mother ship wouldn't cause clones to collapse.

 

[Ihrgoth]

No one is pointing out this is a female moff? Women couldn't become moffs in Palpatine's Empire. The highest they could go was Admiral.

 

[Haerthan]

And it shows the Jedis as hypocrites spouting BS one minute and then taking control of a slave army.

The issue is not that the Jedi are bad people, but that as written by Lucas they are bad people, because Lucas is a bad writer. If one can find an in universe fix for such an out of universe problem that's great, but if you can't it is better to simply cut out the cancer by declaring the story uncanon.

Umm dude. The Jedis taking control of a slave army was made known in Episode II and referenced in Episode IV. Karen Traviss just expanded on it by making a Mando clan consisting of a bunch of clone commandos, a Jedi who left the order because of said hypocrisy, a Twilek, 2 accountants for the Republic, one Mando and his daughter, another Mando and his strill, a dead Jedi and her baby with a clone commando (adoption works posthumous for Mandos, and the baby was born before her death).

Edit: Boy were some of those clones and Mandos pissed off when Order 66 went down. And not for the usual reasons either. It has to do with the dead Jedi mother. Seriously read the books. The Republic and Imperial Commmando series. They are good. People that don't live KArren Traviss just aggrandize the Old Republic Jedi.

The Clone Wars were referenced in Ep IV but not who's side they were on. Before the prequels, all the lore, even the Empire Strikes Back Novels suggested the Jedi fraught against the Clone Masters to protect the republic. In the end defeated the mysterious Mandalorian warriors.

But a trade despite and droids were apparently more convenient. Anakin blowing up a mother ship wouldn't cause clones to collapse.

Doesnt matter what that lore says anymore. The prequels are canon. The Republic Commando stuff isnt anymore. I am just saying that even with the prequels you can clearly see that the Jedi took command of a slave army. Order 66 was just the Force balancing the account if you ask me. Seriously, what a bunch of idiots. Hypocrites all, except the New Jed... oh wait not canon either.

Besides what was wrong with a trade dispute and droids? You think that it doesnt have parallels to real life? It does. Kuwait in 1991 comes to mind. I have no idea what you are talking about clones and mothership there dude.