Steam, banning players for being generous?
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Why bother trying to cheat it like this? I've bought games from the American steam with my UK account before... They didn't even try to stop me from doing so.
GamersGate, Impulse & Direct2Drive do the exact same thing. As does Retail.Chibz said:
Personally, I agree with your sentiment that it's total BS.
I can understand it from a Retail perspective, as the cost of shipping the product overseas does factor in, but there's no cost difference when shipping the games via the interwebz.
But yeah, as stated above, if you really take issue with it to the point of not wanting to use Steam, then there's not really any place that I know of for you to buy Digital
The thing is, as long as there's no contracts being signed, there's no legal connection between "gifting people games" and "sending a dude money over paypal". He didn't open an internet store, he helped a few people out. Connecting the two, is a conclusion that valve is jumping to, and by no means a legal basis to act on. Does "innocent until proven guilty" ring a bell to anyone?Zer_ said:
Of course we all know, he did it, but it can't be legally proven, and therefore he did nothing illegal, nor did Valve risk anything aside from undeserved profits.
And of course, what he did, even when technically bordering the illegal, was still you know... nice, social and morally right. The only harm done, is that a company couldn't pull a fast one on a dozen european gamers, for a few extra bucks. So my original point stands, how can anyone in their right mind side with the greedy corporation here?
It would not break any laws.Zannah said:
that is a Gift.
you do not send Money back to your family in order to obtain said game.
however, even if this where an import (say buying from a US retailer) said game has to pay Import Taxes, tarifs, and several other Fees in order to reach your door step, which doesn't bypass taxes any ways.
gifting games across steam is also perfectly legal and does not give you a steam ban.
Getting Paid to Gift a Specific game so that the receiving party doesn't have to pay VAT or Import Taxes IS illegal.
Yes, I support people accused of Felony with out any means of ever being proven, if what they do is the right thing, that just happens to be illegal. Also, ripping of customers in digital retail, is not happening due to taxes and laws, it's happening due to plain old greed.Pyro Paul said:
But anyway, I rest my case. People believe what they want to believed, too bad no one seems to be willing to phrase why they want to believe that.
Is there really that much difference between prices anyway? I can only relate it to UK games' prices, but a quick look through the Gamestop site seems to suggest that US prices are more or less the same as we have it here - Black Ops £30-40 and $40-$50 depending on format. A few older games (Red Dead Redemption / Metal Gear 4 etc) are a bit cheaper, but is it really worth the hassle for fiver?
And what are prices like other places?
Either way, more of the arguments against Valve here are just hot air - this sort of thing happens with tons of other things in the international market and in every currency. Look at the car industry, the housing industry, the arts industry, the fashion industry, even the food industry - prices vary depending thousands of different parameters, one of which is the buying habits of the society. Steam doesn't charge more than the price of the games on my high-street, in fact, they're often cheaper, which encourages me to buy from them, well, that and being lazy not to walk into town.
I could move to Australia and buy a 42 acre estate with the money I get from selling my poxy little apartment in Yorkshire (okay, slight exaggeration) but I'd have to pay twice the price for my games. I don't think it's 'fair', but at the same time, it's healthier to have an individual market for each country, rather than depending on some fellow 2000 miles away to tighten the purse-strings of a business exclusive to, and who contributes more money to my own country.
And what are prices like other places?
Either way, more of the arguments against Valve here are just hot air - this sort of thing happens with tons of other things in the international market and in every currency. Look at the car industry, the housing industry, the arts industry, the fashion industry, even the food industry - prices vary depending thousands of different parameters, one of which is the buying habits of the society. Steam doesn't charge more than the price of the games on my high-street, in fact, they're often cheaper, which encourages me to buy from them, well, that and being lazy not to walk into town.
I could move to Australia and buy a 42 acre estate with the money I get from selling my poxy little apartment in Yorkshire (okay, slight exaggeration) but I'd have to pay twice the price for my games. I don't think it's 'fair', but at the same time, it's healthier to have an individual market for each country, rather than depending on some fellow 2000 miles away to tighten the purse-strings of a business exclusive to, and who contributes more money to my own country.
You're supporting Greed more so then people defending valve.Zannah said:
the Greed of people that don't want to Pay.
the Greed of people that 'believe' that it is over priced.
the individuals whom know nothing about the world economy and its mechanics and care only for THEIR wallet and how much it Costs THEM.
You believe that they are 'morally right' to be so selfish.
that the rule of law should bend to Them and their own Greed ignoring all others.
Just because there are no contracts, doesn't mean it's not illegal. Second, I side with Valve because if anything like this was brought to light, where Valve did NOT react to fix the problem, then Valve risks losing the ability to sell their product in some EU countries. Valve may also have to pay a significant fine for assisting in tax evasion. They made this move to protect their business, and keep selling games in the European countries.Zannah said:
Second, Valve rarely sets the price for the products sold on Steam. Publishers have control of this. Valve suggests a price, and publishers set the price. If the publishers didn't have control over their own prices, they wouldn't use Steam, they'd use their own service.
The only thing that could make this easier for all of us is if Valve implemented a system where the end user could track the number of games gifted to EU users every year. Say having a hard cap of 10-20 a year per account. It may seem restrictive, but at least it gives us a way of avoiding such incidents as this. Giving users a clear warning before banning would also help.
Taxes can't be charged on online purchases due to admin overheads in most countries, few countries have mechanisms for this. This is not illegal in anyway, there are American businesses that buy by proxy to bypass manufacturer's restrictions on exporting. There is no legal recourse manufacturers or publishers can take can take to stop this and the only reason suppliers comply with export restrictions is to maintain supply.Pyro Paul said:
The real problem is though, you are not paying for a product but a license. The license can have completely unfair conditions of use and can be withheld at anytime due to any breach. Spending your money in the US to avoid sales tax is legitimate. Valve could care less as they get a cut of all sales but maintaining regional pricing is a luxury publishers want so they can rip foreigners off on a case by case basis.
This guy either raised too many flags in Steam's system or has done something more he's not saying. If true I think he's done something else.
As a Canadian I DL games off XBLA the PSN and Wii Shop Channel. I actually find that even though Microsoft charges us 12.5% more (through giving 200 points fewer per $20 spent) they rip us off less than real stores. Nintendo sometimes sells stuff for LESS because they sell their points for the same amount, and our store is the US store.CCountZero said:But yeah, as stated above, if you really take issue with it to the point of not wanting to use Steam, then there's not really any place that I know of for you to buy Digital
Why do you people keep bringing up Tax Evasion? That's a completely irrelevant and flawed point that has been ripped apart by myself repeatedly. If anything Valve (and the publishers) were upset that they were, personally, losing money. So, to defend that extra bit of profit, they "dealt with" the guy.Zer_ said:
Unless you're a Valve fanboy, in which case... Glorious Valve Can Do No Wrong!