Steam, banning players for being generous?

[JohnPaul3rd]

Sounds like another reason to torrent

 

[Merkavar]

too many post to read.

anyway i think the ban is fair from what i have seen. they didnt gift the game to anyone, they sold the game and im pretty sure somewhere in the TOU agreement there would be something about selling the game seeing as how you dont own the game and all that.

 

[Daveman]

Digital ownership isn't the same. Its more like a right to use the data yourself rather than actually owning something. If you break their rules you lose that right (as far as im aware). And trying to bypass their system (in a fairly large way) is likely to annoy them. And probably the developers who release products on their service too. As a business it has needs and it needs to put those interests quite high, otherwise it would cause problems for them.

First Sale doesn't extend here. This is one of the hazards of digital distribution, Steam or otherwise.

Yeah, I figured as much, but I was just pointing out it wasn't as clear cut as it seemed.

My guess would be that amergift gifted a bunch of people - well beyond the average users levels - of gift accounts, and then Value thought to themselves, we have full access to the Steam ID's of everyone he gifted to. Value could then send e-mails to those people with a stern warning that they were taking place in the crime of tax evasion. Also, Value has access to the e-mails and bank account numbers of all those involved parties. I'm sure Value would send a friendly letter to Paypal to cross check a set of bank account numbers, and to see if there was any payments between these parties.

The government would most likely need search warrants to carry out these steps; however, corporations are less restrained by Constitutions.

I'd agree but that seems like a MASSIVE effort for one guy... that is unless he was doing this gifting on a huge scale. tbh I don't see why he didn't just open a new steam account for it if that was the case though, then he wouldn't lose his games. Although they'd probably see through that and close down his other accounts. EDIT: also, I think you mean "Valve".

It's not about what you think, this is about if it's illegal or not. Morality doesn't really matter in this situation - what he did was(from what I gather) in fact illegal.

There isn't much more to it than that. If it turns out Steam were just pissy about the loophole, then they should admit that and give him his account back or something. But if it was illegal - tough shit.

Yeah, exactly, if it is just illegal then indeed "tough shit" but I was merely trying to point out (as I said above) that it wasn't so obvious to the ordinary observer because you can understand why most people would think it's fine.

tbh the equivalent thing is what shitloads of people do in the UK which is go to France for the lower VAT and buy up a load of stuff (cigarettes and booze mostly) and take it back on the ferry in their cars. No idea if that's still worth it given how taxes may have changed but there was a hilarious Only Fools and Horses episode on it.

 

[Acidwell]

Here we go stuff people left out:

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5406-WFZC-5519
Quote from above:

Why would a Steam account be disabled?

Check the contact e-mail address for your Steam account to see if Steam Support has contacted you regarding the reason your account was disabled - accounts may be temporarily disabled pending verification of purchase information or account ownership.
Steam Support does not automatically contact the owners of disabled accounts in most circumstances.
There is a Zero-Tolerance policy for any violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Online Code of Conduct. All accounts in a user's possession for any of the following activities will be disabled:

Redeeming Fraudulent Gifts

Never accept a gift from an unknown user. Any accounts tied to a redeemed gift from a fraudulent source may be disabled.

Also if there is a tax its not vat since that would be illegal as the max vat in the eu is 25% with discretion to countries and the vat on steam games would amount to 26% across all countries

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I don't see why people are making such a big deal about the games costing more in the UK on steam, the games cost more on everything in the UK. Steam is no more evil than any other company.

 

[Zannah]

I'm astonished people actually side with steam here, saying "If they want to rip off people that isn't me, sure let them". Way to go people, way to go.
But hey, a gamer social enough to protect fellow gamers from being ripped off is clearly a first rate criminal, and Valve should totally be allowed to light his house on fire.

 

[Seydaman]

If your steam account gets banned do you lose access to all the games you bought for yourself?

No. You just lose access to Steam secured servers.

If your steam account gets banned do you lose access to all the games you bought for yourself?

Yes.

Ok, one of you heartless fiends is lying to me.

Was it an all steam ban or a VAC ban?
A VAC ban is just from using VAC secured servers
The other one is from all steam

 

[Trolldor]

I'm astonished people actually side with steam here, saying "If they want to rip off people that isn't me, sure let them". Way to go people, way to go.
But hey, a gamer social enough to protect fellow gamers from being ripped off is clearly a first rate criminal, and Valve should totally be allowed to light his house on fire.

Yes, they should, if their actions break laws and put steam at a legal risk.

 

[Zannah]

I'm astonished people actually side with steam here, saying "If they want to rip off people that isn't me, sure let them". Way to go people, way to go.
But hey, a gamer social enough to protect fellow gamers from being ripped off is clearly a first rate criminal, and Valve should totally be allowed to light his house on fire.

Yes, they should, if their actions break laws and put steam at a legal risk.

And what legal risk is that? He was gifted some money on paypal, he gifted people some games, neither of which is illegal, no sale is taking place, no contracts are signed. The only thing in danger here, is the policy of ripping people off because money is shiny.

 

[Trolldor]

It is illegal if it's a deliberate act performed to avoid trade laws such as taxation or exchange fees.

 

[Zer_]

I'm astonished people actually side with steam here, saying "If they want to rip off people that isn't me, sure let them". Way to go people, way to go.
But hey, a gamer social enough to protect fellow gamers from being ripped off is clearly a first rate criminal, and Valve should totally be allowed to light his house on fire.

Yes, they should, if their actions break laws and put steam at a legal risk.

And what legal risk is that? He was gifted some money on paypal, he gifted people some games, neither of which is illegal, no sale is taking place, no contracts are signed. The only thing in danger here, is the policy of ripping people off because money is shiny.

Breaking local tax laws. This has been explained over and over again throughout the course of this thread. :/

 

[Kenny Doyle]

Suppose you won't get banned for buying a friend in America a game when you live in the UK.

 

[Sgt. Dante]

Why bother trying to cheat it like this? I've bought games from the American steam with my UK account before... They didn't even try to stop me from doing so.

 

[Zannah]

Breaking local tax laws. This has been explained over and over again throughout the course of this thread. :/

So if my family back in the Us would buy me a game for christmas, and send it over here to sweden, that'd be breaking tax laws how exactly?

 

[Zer_]

Breaking local tax laws. This has been explained over and over again throughout the course of this thread. :/

So if my family back in the Us would buy me a game for christmas, and send it over here to sweden, that'd be breaking tax laws how exactly?

If you were to send the money for them to do it, then yes. Sending a few games to friends in EU won't bring up alarm bells. Selling games wholesale to EU people will.