Steam Gets Civilized

[Cartographer]

It's all well and good to ask us to "trust them" that their software does what they say it does, and nothing else. How about they "trust us" that we're not going to pirate the games, and give us the option not to use their system?

And that is the biggest point, most fundamentally, it limits your choice as a consumer.

Perhaps...

But they are not here to take a moral high-ground, they are running a business.
Using the statistics, it seems like there's a lot of pirates and that a lot of people are quite happy to take something for nothing, so I don't see why they should trust, us, not us individually, but us, the people who want to play games, to pay for things.

Besides, if you are so unhappy with Steam doing all of those things, can't you simply update all of your stuff and then just play everything in offline mode from then on?
There's not really any issues then.

I'd still have Steam on my system.

It's the functional equivalent of Tesco (UK user here, think Wallmart or equivalent) insisting that everyone who shops in their stores must use a clubcard (store membership card that collects points from purchases, which are translated into vouchers each month, but also tracks every purchase you make in the store for Tesco, and third parties to use), then going out and securing exclusive deals with Kelloggs, Heinze, Mr Kipling etc. (top branded products) so they are only stocked by Tesco stores.
Sure, the benefits of the clubcard are legion, but don't even begin to kid yourself that they are free. The information you give up by using it is pure gold from Tesco's point of view and worth many times more than the £10-15 a month they give out in money-off vouchers.

Steam is just as "free", the data you give up is worth so much more than the perks you get for using the system.

If you don't mind and are happy with the deal, then that is fine, it won't bother you in the slightest and you can carry on using it. What isn't fine IMO is the exclusivity, there is no other option aside from "don't play the game".

boot Steam up on a system with an ATI card installed and then one with an nVidia card installed, the prices in the store change depending on your system

Please provide more details. I have not heard of this, and would investigate it thoroughly.

It's well documented, there have been any number of reports on what Steam transmits and the deals done by nVidia and ATI.
Google or Wiki it but:

Steam collects and reports anonymous metrics of its usage, stability, and performance. With the exception of Valve's hardware survey, most collection occurs without notifying the user or offering an opt-out. Some of these metrics are available publicly, such as what games are being played or statistics on player progress in certain games. Valve has also used information from these statistics to justify implementing new features in Steam, such as the addition of a defragmentation option for game caches.
/snip

Steam allows developers and publishers to change prices and restrict game availability depending on the user's location, causing some games to cost more than those bought from retail stores, despite digital distribution removing the costs of disc replication, packaging, design time, logistics and dealing with retail fronts.
/snip

According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.
/snip

Steam keeps a record of the hardware in the computer it is running on for various purposes, one of which is enabling hardware manufacturers to run after-sale promotions directly to their customers. Both AMD's ATi and nVidia use this feature: owners of ATi's Radeon video cards receive Half-Life 2: Lost Coast and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, as well as a discount on Half-Life 2, while owners of nVidia's GeForce video cards receive Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Portal: First Slice (a demo of Portal, now available to all Steam users for free) and Peggle Extreme (now available to all Steam users for free).
/snip

I'm sure you can look up the rest.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

The statement wasn't that Half Life 2 is a flagship FPS title which, even though I don't personally agree I know it's got enough fans and enough pull to be considered such, I agree with. The statement was that HL2 is/was THE flagship title. Even back then I don't see that being the case. Certainly at it's time it was one of the leaders in the story based FPS games movement, and it had a prequel to build it's hype, but that was a very strong and varied time in PC FPS gaming with the Quake series, the Unreal series, Deus Ex, etc. It seems rather silly to single out HL2 no matter how much you like it as being the flagship given it's competition (and particularly given that this statement is written from the perspective of the game not even being out yet which is where it really started to gain widespread approval).

Quake was only truly popular during its initial release, and maybe a little of Quake 2. From Quake 3 and up the series became more on the obscure side and mostly just played by the die-hard fans of the series. Unreal sorta has the same situation going on. Long-story-short, while you might find a couple recommendations for those two series in a "What FPS titles should I play" topic, they'll be few and far between at best. Then we get to Deus Ex, which while a great game, was always a niche title. A cult hit, if you will. While it's an agile ship that can do some decent damage, it certainly isn't flagship material. Aside from those three titles you have Doom 3 that came out around the same time as HL2, but aside from a momentary time in the limelight, it was quickly forgotten by the mainstream audience.

As for the comment about perspective and that we didn't know back then whether or not Half Life 2 would be any good... maybe you forget just how much hype there was around this game. Half Life was, at the time, considered to be among the (if not THE) best FPS title(s), which made Half Life 2 into one of the most anticipated sequels ever once it was announced. So while we didn't know at the time if it would be a good game, there was too much hype for anyone to really ponder that as a possibility. I would also argue that this is being spoken more from the perspective of "the game just came out and critics and fans alike are raving about it" than a pre-release perspective, since pre-release wouldn't be worried about Steam just yet.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Eep!! Double posted cause the site lagged (even re-reported messages I had already checked). Editing down for size. wtb "delete" option, imo. :x

 

[Fenixius]

A distribution service is not the same as a fucking console.

Yes, it is, in this case. ... How is Steam different than a console, please?

... you proved my point. It's a service on PC.

Uhm, what? "Steam isn't a console!" "Yes it is." "You proved my point!"

Consoles are just PC's with services hard-locked onto them. Same functions as Steam, except that the PC can do more than just what Steam lets you. How is a console with 360/PS3/etc software on it different than a PC with Steam on it? Please explain your reasoning.

 

[Fenixius]

Please provide more details. I have not heard of this, and would investigate it thoroughly.

It's well documented, there have been any number of reports on what Steam transmits and the deals done by nVidia and ATI.

Thankyou for the explanation. I thought you were somehow referring to some sort of shady, discriminatory sales setup, not promotions which are reliant on passively collected data. When my games passively collect data on the hardware I have to optimise my gameplay, I don't mind. As long as I'm not being charged -more- by Steam than the default because I have a certain part, I certainly have no qualms. But that's just me. Again, thankyou for the explanation.

You mentioned regionalised pricing, though, and that pisses me off immensely. Valve claim to have no/very limited control over what pricing is set by publishers, and it seems that they're fine with regionalised pricing. I always wonder if there's some sort of consumer watchdog I can report to about this discriminatory practice, though.

 

[Podunk]

My opinion on Steam can be summed up with one question and answer.

Q: Where is my Orange Box disk?
A: Who cares, I can play Team Fortress 2 on every computer I get my hands on.

No matter what service (or lack of service) is provided, there will always be something people will complain about.

 

[Johnmw]

looks like I'm gonna have to download steam...Wow I really couldn't care less. Seriously this registers in my brain as a non-issue.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

As a long-time Civilization fan, I say this is fantastic news.
I have honestly never seen a Civilization game in a brick-and-mortar store in my entire life.

Really? My first venture into Civilization 4 was from Circuit City... It cost 25 dollars, and this was before the expansion.

Proceeded to give me at least 200 hours of entertainment, as well as staying up til about 4-5 a.m on some nights playing.

I honestly think they should have both retail and digital. No harm in having both, and it really would help exposure to some that may not know steam OR retail aspects of the civ series. Hell, that was my very first PC game, I just picked it up because it looked interesting.

 

[Delusibeta]

As a long-time Civilization fan, I say this is fantastic news.
I have honestly never seen a Civilization game in a brick-and-mortar store in my entire life.

Really? My first venture into Civilization 4 was from Circuit City... It cost 25 dollars, and this was before the expansion.

Proceeded to give me at least 200 hours of entertainment, as well as staying up til about 4-5 a.m on some nights playing.

I honestly think they should have both retail and digital. No harm in having both, and it really would help exposure to some that may not know steam OR retail aspects of the civ series. Hell, that was my very first PC game, I just picked it up because it looked interesting.

Again, applying Steamworks does not equal not having a retail version. If anything, it increases the likelyhood of a retail version (see Audiosurf and Killing Floor, which I've got retail boxes beside me). Steamworks does require the end user to install Steam, get an account and then install the game, regardless of where they bought it from. The installing process is similar to a backup the end user could create at a later date using the Backup feature.

 

[JEBWrench]

Really? My first venture into Civilization 4 was from Circuit City... It cost 25 dollars, and this was before the expansion.

Quite truly. My first experience was at school with the original, then II and III I bought at flea markets. I haven't played IV.

Of course, when I was a lad, the local stores were:

Zellers.

Not a wide selection, and they had next to nothing for a PC Gamer where I lived.

 

[Break]

A distribution service is not the same as a fucking console.

Yes, it is, in this case. ... How is Steam different than a console, please?

... you proved my point. It's a service on PC.

Uhm, what? "Steam isn't a console!" "Yes it is." "You proved my point!"

Consoles are just PC's with services hard-locked onto them. Same functions as Steam, except that the PC can do more than just what Steam lets you. How is a console with 360/PS3/etc software on it different than a PC with Steam on it? Please explain your reasoning.

The reasoning? It may serve the same function as a console operating system, but the comparison is meaningless. Significantly, you don't have to pay hundreds of your local currency to install Steam. You don't have to buy another computer to play games that don't use Steam. There is no barrier to entry. Unless a box is ticked in the options, Steam doesn't even start up until you need it to. Your computer is free to do non-Steam related things.

And even then - if we go with this idea, liken Steam to a console, consider it to serve the same function... So what? Where can you go with it? Is there a metaphor you can think of that works? A way of thinking about it that's more intuitive or effective than what it actually is, in this instance: DRM, that happens to have a friends list, game management tab, and a shop? I have (honestly!) been trying to think of something for the last ten minutes. I have found it difficult.

In any case, I don't really get why people are talking about Steam specifically. They're using it as DRM. That is its function, that is why they're requiring people to install it. Shouldn't we be talking about DRM, instead? "Stupid 2K making people need online activation, etc."? I can't help but think that people are missing the point, somewhat. This is 2K. Regardless of the specific program, DRM was going to be involved. Christ, these are the people who shipped Bioshock with SecuROM! SecuROM! Are people surprised that they're using DRM? I don't understand.

 

[ALPHATT]

idk why people are bitching about securom? I mean who the fuck plays the same legal copy of a game on 30 fucking computers at the same time?

 

[WorldCritic]

My cousin will die when he heres this.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Steam has been a broken piece of junk since the beginning. I've had it running on at least 3 different computers over the years and it has never ceased to give me problems. In fact, that goes for ALL content delivery systems. I don't need it, I can count to "one point five" and search the net for patches all by myself. I'm a big boy.

 

[Vigormortis]

What I hate about steam is their online activation system for hard disk games - I have Half Life 2 and Half Life 2 Episode one - they've been by my desk for weeks now - but can't play them because the store ripped me off - they weren't labelled as preowned, but the code has been activated.

Um...that's not Steams fault. The blame is squarely planted on your and the stores shoulders. Now, if you were unaware of Steams code activation policy (one that's used by every single registration program there is), then I can understand. However, if the store knowingly sold you used copies of Valve/Steam games (something they are legally not supposed to do), then it's their fault. You have every right to take back those copies and demand your money back. Just because Valve has the audacity to allow users to register a game key to their account so they can have that game where ever, whenever they want...forever, doesn't mean it's their fault your used copies don't work.

O.T. I can understand some people's dislike of having to play the new Civ game through Steam, but from my point of view, it's no different then if I wanted to play Half-Life 2. If I want to play it offline, Steam can start offline. Besides, getting the benefits of Steams continuous, free updates and patches makes it a complete non-issue for me.

My opinion on Steam can be summed up with one question and answer.

Q: Where is my Orange Box disk?
A: Who cares, I can play Team Fortress 2 on every computer I get my hands on.

No matter what service (or lack of service) is provided, there will always be something people will complain about.

My thoughts exactly. I can relate to all the hatred towards things like SecuROM, but why all this hate towards Steam? Quite frankly, the only people I've ever known that had any severe troubles with Steam were people that had no idea how to use a computer properly or tried all kinds of hacks, work-arounds, or other such modding and ended up screwing up a file somewhere. It reminds me of that guy who recently did a video review of Steam on Mac. He kept trying to download and play Portal only to have Steam tell him his video card wasn't compatible. Then, when the game failed to start, he bitched about how broken Steam is. Sounds like the common complaint about Steam.

 

[Mistwraithe]

Quite frankly, the only people I've ever known that had any severe troubles with Steam were people that had no idea how to use a computer properly or tried all kinds of hacks, work-arounds, or other such modding and ended up screwing up a file somewhere.

Reeaallly? Perhaps you don't know many people? Are you only counting close friends and relatives maybe? Or perhaps close friends and relatives who don't play computer games?

I jest. But your statement is provocative and while perhaps true for the limited group of people you "know" it is blatently and obviously false for the wider population. I'm about as computer literate as they come (top level programmer, run a software company, built PCs from parts, installed dozens if not hundreds of OS's, etc) and I have certainly had various problems with Steam in the past. Not recently, but that's probably because I avoid buying things on Steam now?

If Steam malfunctions and won't let you do what you want to do (eg play your game!) then it doesn't much matter how technologically advanced you are, you are still stuffed.

But even ignoring the question of Steam's reliability/lightweightness/etc, the whole digital distribution thing is a worry. Recent DRM is primarily about linking access to your games to an online gatekeeper. Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed 2 debacle is one obvious and extreme example but Steam is in the same category. If Steam's servers became unavailable then you would not be able to install any new games. If they continued to remain unavailable then I believe even offline mode will stop working (it has to successfully login every so often) and all your games become unavailable.

So any game you have from Steam is reliant on Steam continuing in business. If that stops you lose everything. This is the big shift in the last 5-10 years of gaming and it is a serious concern.

Before everyone jumps up and down saying Steam aren't going to go out of business, I agree... for now. However there are dozens of examples around of online services (music, games, etc), including some from big companies (eg EA, Microsoft), which everyone swore would be available for near eternity which have already been turned off after just a few years. It would be naive in the extreme to assume that your favourite service (ie Steam) is somehow guaranteed to be safe forever.

 

[Kaminobob]

I, personally, am in favor of steamworks for Civ V, because 2K couldn't patch their collective ass out of a damp paper sack if their lives depended on it, to combine about 2 more metaphors than is really sane.

The 'get the patches yourself, but we won't tell you which order they invalidate each other in' approach is really just tragically outdated at this point.

 

[Agent_PoRK]

i love steam, but they are also the ultimate douche bags, they put game on sale and then don't warn you or even do anything when they run out of keys.