Steam TOS Leads to Trouble in Germany

[Andy Chalk]

Steam TOS Leads to Trouble in Germany

A German consumer group is demanding a change to Steam's updated terms of service.

In August, Valve made a fairly substantial change [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118827-Valve-Wants-Customer-Disputes-in-Small-Claims-Court] to its terms of service that did away with the right of Steam users to partake in class-action lawsuits against it. That in itself wasn't necessarily a big deal - who would ever sue those good guys at Valve, right? - but more troubling was the response to people who weren't entirely comfortable with the new provisions and didn't want to put their names to the updated TOS.

A NeoGAF user who contacted Valve to inquire about declining the new subscriber agreement was told that he was free to do so, but that if he did, his account would be permanently deactivated [http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485408] and any games and other content he had purchased on Steam would be lost. He would not receive any kind of refund for his lost games, and once deactivated, the account could never again be reactivated.

Consumer response to Valve's "my way or the highway" was surprisingly muted (well, it wasn't all that surprising, really) but German consumer group Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband [http://en.vzbv.de/] (Federation of German Consumer Organizations), heretofore referred to as VZBV, isn't satisfied with the change. It said that the choice of agreeing to the new terms or facing the loss of all Steam content amounts to "coercion," and it has given Valve until September 26 to respond to its demands that the content denial provision be changed.

If Valve refuses to do so, or fails to respond to the demand, the VZBV may elect to take the matter to court. The most likely outcome is some kind of compromise that accommodates German and/or E.U. law, but in a theoretical worst-case scenario, Valve could decide to simply drop Steam support in Germany.

Valve isn't the only big, popular game company the VZBV has gone after in recent months; in July [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118660-German-Consumer-Group-Threatens-Legal-Action-Against-Blizzard] it turned its sights on Blizzard over its failure to adequately warn consumers about Diablo III's always-on internet requirement.

Source: Gaming Blend [http://www.cinemablend.com/games/How-Valve-Respond-Desist-Declaration-Steam-EULA-47171.html]


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[Something Amyss]

"Consumer response to Valve's "my way or the highway" was surprisingly muted (well, it wasn't all that surprising, really)"

No, the high level of fellatio Valve received for this is standard.

So...I'm not exactly an expert on German culture. Is the blind fanboyism as rampant in Germany?

 

[Kopikatsu]

I imagine what kind of fallout there would be if Steam dropped support in Germany...

 

[Krantos]

In a word: GOOD.

I'm a big fan of Steam, but Valve's response to people not liking their TOS was bull.

Hopefully, this goes to court and incites other groups to call Valve out on it.

 

[Aeshi]

You could always just decline the update this TOS comes with. You don't need the latest version of Steam to play your games/whatever, else it'd be basically unusable given the frequency with which it updates and said updates reluctance to stick.

 

[Skeleon]

This is good news. I actually had to click "agree" on my Steam account because of this blackmail. I hope they kick Valve's ass for this crap. Consumer protection is a valued good here and I am glad that they stand up for our rights.

I do wonder what would happen if they had to drop Steam in Germany, though. After all, tons of people supposedly "bought" games under false pretenses and misleading advertisement (now it's a "subscription service" and the words "buy" or "purchase" appear nowhere anymore last I've checked) and if Steam just goes down and takes all those games with them...

Would they have to recompense everybody then? Something like that could ruin a company.

 

[balberoy]

I live in germany.

So actually we have several rulings from court wich are in "general" not in terms with Steam and all other online distributors.

If this comes to court Valve will have to deal with the right for consumers to sell their products or licenses. A company sold licenses to a person/company, wich sold the license to another person/company. The company that sold the license originally said this was forbidden through their TOS. But the court ruled, that this license is a product and the consumer has the right to sell it.

The customer has, in general, the right to sell anything he once bought. In digital or reatail format. But because this is a "general" ruling it has no effect until it is confirmed in a special case. In this case because Steam or Origin as a platform.

Valves online service (or Origin, or GoG, etc.) have no option to sell the software, not even between accounts.

It is likely that Valve would loose the case and they "had" to make the changes. If they did not they would face the threat of refunding all games sold to german accounts.

So Valve does not want this in court, because this ruling could easily change german or even EU law.

 

[Mehall]

This is good news. I actually had to click "agree" on my Steam account because of this blackmail. I hope they kick Valve's ass for this crap. Consumer protection is a valued good here and I am glad that they stand up for our rights.

I do wonder what would happen if they had to drop Steam in Germany, though. After all, tons of people supposedly "bought" games under false pretenses and misleading advertisement (now it's a "subscription service" and the words "buy" or "purchase" appear nowhere anymore last I've checked) and if Steam just goes down and takes all those games with them...

Would they have to recompense everybody then? Something like that could ruin a company.

Yeah, you're right it doesn't say purchase anywh....

Oh. Right.

It is not a subscription service, Valve have recognised this fact before, and according to the language of their T&C's and their storefront, according to EU law it is not a subscription service.

I do, however, agree with you and the german group bringing this up that it is, in fact, coercion, and await VALVe's response.


EDIT: @balberoy above; It's not just german law, it was agreed upon for the EU as a whole, so VALVe would need to refund every item bought by anyone in any of VALVe's 3 EU regions (UK, Euro 1 and Euro 2)

 

[Skeleon]

Yeah, you're right it doesn't say purchase anywh....

Huh. I was sure they had changed this... for a while I really didn't see those words anywhere... but I checked and you're right. Strange. Well, that's eye-witness testimony for you: Basically worthless.

 

[Harbinger_]

What is with Germany and going after large companies lately regarding gaming? It seems like only yesterday there was that thing with Microsoft not to mention Blizzard, etc.

 

[loa]

Not sure what to think.
Valve is indeed coercing people into "agreement" and they deserve all the bitchslappings that come their way for that but removing steam access of a whole country over this is pretty harsh especially for those with large steam libraries (who would get a refund and what? Yeah, good luck with that).

 

[teh_gunslinger]

"Consumer response to Valve's "my way or the highway" was surprisingly muted (well, it wasn't all that surprising, really)"

No, the high level of fellatio Valve received for this is standard.

So...I'm not exactly an expert on German culture. Is the blind fanboyism as rampant in Germany?

No, Germans were never ones for blindly following anyone no matter how outlandish their demands.

 

[Indecipherable]

I like it. I wish this would happen more with draconian EULAs and other BS we have to put up with.

 

[balberoy]

No, Germans were never ones for blindly following anyone no matter how outlandish their demands.

We actually learned from our mistakes.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

No, Germans were never ones for blindly following anyone no matter how outlandish their demands.

We actually learned from our mistakes.

I know. I live in Denmark and go to Berlin as often as I can. Germany is a fucking awesome country as far as I'm concerned. I was just making a silly joke about his question of fanboyism.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

What is with Germany and going after large companies lately regarding gaming? It seems like only yesterday there was that thing with Microsoft not to mention Blizzard, etc.

Apparently they're the last sane people on earth. This is exactly the kind of thing consumers need protection from. Hopefully this is the first step that snowballs into something substantial.

 

[yuval152]

snip

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software. To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

I'm not sure if I understanded your argument, but If I understand it correctly, This is taken from the subscriber agreement.

OT: I really hope they can do something about their TOS.

 

[Something Amyss]

No, Germans were never ones for blindly following anyone no matter how outlandish their demands.

To be fair, Germans were blinded by hate in THAT instance. I don't think many people were actually plotting to give der Fuhrer fellatio.

I like it. I wish this would happen more with draconian EULAs and other BS we have to put up with.

I wish my country didn't have laws that went out of their way to enforce corporate rights over all.

In America, expecting use of games you paid for is called "entitlement."

It's good thing that they're putting pressure on Steam, considering they really piston customer loyalty.

I was going to say they took a leak, but yours is tighter. Hopefully this doesn't boil over.

 

[anian]

Steam stops a certain amount of piracy and increases sales substantially -> publishers/game studios love that -> Steam gets more money...
but if Steam starts f-ing around with customers and even lose some of the cases in Germany and more, they might be heading in the downwards spiral.

Especially if you add some of the show Origin might steal and even though EA does stupid things over and over again, I wouldn't underestimate their greed and see a big way of stealing a lot of the customers.