Steam TOS Leads to Trouble in Germany

[Falterfire]

The problem with decoupling the Steam ToS from usage of the games is that it opens entirely new cans of worms. I don't think it's as simple legally to do what you are proposing. Technologically, there's really no issue, but legally I'm not so sure. Since you would then be using the games essentially uncovered by any ToS (As the old one expires a short while after the new one takes effect), and I'm not sure what that would mean for Valve.

So what about games with Steamworks-DRM? Even if you buy them retail or from another digital distributor, you still need a Steam account and have to agree to the TOS/EULA to play it, resulting in, effeectively, a monopoly on those games (that concept alone is probably unlawful in Germany/the EU).

Then that's the game creator's problem. If I build a certain kind of widget and decide I'm only selling them through Wal-Mart, you can't sue Wal-Mart because you want to buy my widgets from Target. However, if I'm the only widget manufacturer in the world and I have an exclusive deal with Wal-Mart to sell my widgets and nobody else can make any widgets, then there's a problem.

Monopoly only applies when you corner all of a certain kind of thing such as all the Video Games. It doesn't apply to specific works. It can't apply to specific works or else an unscrupulous company would be able to put small distributors out of business by suing them if they attempted to offer any sort of exclusive.

This is no different than being unable to sue EA for forcing you to use Origin for Mass Effect 3. It's their specific product, and thus their choice how to distribute it.

 

[snekadid]

block o text

except that no contract can be legally binding if the terms within amount to a crime or the removal of a persons basic rights and coercion is illegal in any first world country. Even if we agreed to it, signed in blood with a picture of us smiling at the camera and waving as we held up the contract, can we become slaves since it would violate both basic human rights and the law.

 

[Falterfire]

block o text

except that no contract can be legally binding if the terms within amount to a crime or the removal of a persons basic rights and coercion is illegal in any first world country. Even if we agreed to it, signed in blood with a picture of us smiling at the camera and waving as we held up the contract, can we become slaves since it would violate both basic human rights and the law.

But you're not a slave. That's the crux of the issue: You purchased a limited terminable license to play the game. When you purchased that license, it came with the stipulation that the terms of service may be later changed, and if at such a point you decided you no longer wished to agree to them your license would then be terminated.

All of those terms were visible at the outset. You entered into a legal agreement that you would only be able to use the service as long as you agreed to the terms of service. As long as the terms of service are legal, being asked to agree to them in order to continue using the service is not coercion. If you believed there was a chance that future ToS changes would cause you to refuse to continue service with Valve, you should at that moment have taken your business to another service such as GOG.com or even a physical copy.

To quote a legal dictionary (Found at legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com):

Spoiler: Legal Dictionary

The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another's freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim's reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

As far as I can tell, your argument is that the threat being made was the removal of Steam games from the account. Ultimately it comes down to whether the court considers the ToS line involving acceptance of future changes to be a 'threat'. I don't, you do, but as far as I know, neither of us are lawyers and thus our opinions are unimportant in this particular case. (Although I'm certain somebody will be along shortly to inform me of their prowess as a LawyerAstronautSurgeonBillionaire who knows everything and give an allegedly definitive answer)

 

[Starke]

Yeah, you're right it doesn't say purchase anywh....

Huh. I was sure they had changed this... for a while I really didn't see those words anywhere... but I checked and you're right. Strange. Well, that's eye-witness testimony for you: Basically worthless.

Yeah, no, that's been like that the entire time...

 

[cynicalsaint1]

Man, it'd be nice if the US gave a fuck about consumer rights.

 

[742]

wow.
i didnt think they were the sort of company to start pulling this sort of blatantly anti-consumer shit. i cant think of anything that would get them my business back after this.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Steam stops a certain amount of piracy and increases sales substantially -> publishers/game studios love that -> Steam gets more money...
but if Steam starts f-ing around with customers and even lose some of the cases in Germany and more, they might be heading in the downwards spiral.

Especially if you add some of the show Origin might steal and even though EA does stupid things over and over again, I wouldn't underestimate their greed and see a big way of stealing a lot of the customers.

This is why competition can be a very good thing. If this goes down with Steam and EA capitalizes on this by making Origin's EULA more user-friendly than Steam's, even I would start using Origin and the DD industry would be encouraged to follow suit or provide some other incentive in order to compete.

Of course, this is EA here. The odds of them figuring out what user-friendly means are slim-to-none unless their entire upper management was replaced with competent people.

 

[zephyron]

Minor gripe, but "heretofore" means "before now" not "after now." Maybe you meant "henceforth?"

 

[Albino Boo]

Ok 2 small but rather important points.


1.You cant bring a class action in Germany for anything other than finical products.


2. The terms of service also state the transaction takes place under UK law which has no class action what so ever.


So we have someone fighting to for the right to sue valve in class action when he couldn't legally bring one in either his home jurisdiction or the jurisdiction which the terms of service come under. One word, fail.

 

[Gennadios]

Germany is a massive market, they couldn't afford to drop support there.

I really hope Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband makes some changes that end up applying to US consumers. I love Valve, but it's still a corporation, which makes it a caged tiger liable to rip my face off at any moment. The more safety measures I have in place the better.

They could have simply modified the account of people who want to stay on the old TOS to retain access to their existing games but be unable to buy new ones.

 

[C. Cain]

Ok 2 small but rather important points.


1.You cant bring a class action in Germany for anything other than finical products.


2. The terms of service also state the transaction takes place under UK law which has no class action what so ever.


So we have someone fighting to for the right to sue valve in class action when he couldn't legally bring one in either his home jurisdiction or the jurisdiction which the terms of service come under. One word, fail.

No. This isn't about class action at all. It's about whether it's legal that Valve can disable all games you've purchased via their digital distribution service if you don't accept their new ToS.

 

[viranimus]

Hallefriggenlujah

Germany, you just got so much more awesome. I applaud you yet again for having the balls other places like the US simply do not have to do what is right. Kudos, and keep up the good fight, even if the masses are too apathetic to defend themselves or their industry.

 

[Albino Boo]

Ok 2 small but rather important points.


1.You cant bring a class action in Germany for anything other than finical products.


2. The terms of service also state the transaction takes place under UK law which has no class action what so ever.


So we have someone fighting to for the right to sue valve in class action when he couldn't legally bring one in either his home jurisdiction or the jurisdiction which the terms of service come under. One word, fail.

No. This isn't about class action at all. It's about whether it's legal that Valve can disable all games you've purchased via their digital distribution service if you don't accept their new ToS.

Of course they can change the terms of service, its exactly the same as the any other company changing the rules under which it offers its services. Steam is providing a service and they have every right to change those rules within the law. Steam has done god knows how many changes to its ToS since its start and fight it over change that doesn't even effect you in court that has no jurisdiction is fail.

 

[C. Cain]

Of course they can change the terms of service, its exactly the same as the any other company changing the rules under which it offers its services. Steam is providing a service and they have every right to change those rules within the law. Steam has done god knows how many changes to its ToS since its start and fight it over change that doesn't even effect you in court that has no jurisdiction is fail.

That's still not the point. It's totally irrelevant what these changes are specifically. To reiterate: The sticking point is that if you decline to accept these changes, whatever they are, you automatically forfeit your right to play the games you've previously purchased on Steam.

According to the VZBZ this is illegal under current German law.

 

[antipunt]

Hmm...

I've got to say this looks like a more than legitimate complaint

 

[Amaror]

I imagine what kind of fallout there would be if Steam dropped support in Germany...

I don't think they're gonna do that, though. Germany is the place were pc gaming is the strongest, so loosing that customerbase would be huge for valve.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I find it funny thins is a problem... especially considering Valve changed how account disabling works some time ago to allow you to continue playing your games even if your account got disabled.

 

[Lykosia_v1legacy]

To quote a legal dictionary (Found at legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com):

Spoiler: Legal Dictionary

The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another's freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim's reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

As far as I can tell, your argument is that the threat being made was the removal of Steam games from the account. Ultimately it comes down to whether the court considers the ToS line involving acceptance of future changes to be a 'threat'. I don't, you do, but as far as I know, neither of us are lawyers and thus our opinions are unimportant in this particular case. (Although I'm certain somebody will be along shortly to inform me of their prowess as a LawyerAstronautSurgeonBillionaire who knows everything and give an allegedly definitive answer)

You're quoting American law. We are talking about Germany and EU in general. EU has much stronger consumer support and protection laws than US. And ToS or EULA don't overrule law here. In here Finland, that kind of changing a contract after it is signed, is illegal. So that ToS is illegal here.

Valve can't drop support for Germany. Germany is one of the biggest PC markets in the world and it would end Valve's market leading role if they'd do that.

 

[nodlimax]

Oh well, there goes steam....

Well I they changed their TOS and I can't really deny them or I'll lose the games I bought on their service. But what I can do is stop buying games on steam. I've stopeed buying games from UbiSoft and Electronic Arts and I'll avoid Blizzard games as well in the future. Now Valve and all Devs that use Steam are going to join the ranks.

The numbers of game makers I can still buy games from is getting smaller and smaller. It's actually good for my wallet and bad for theirs but they don't seem to care anyway...

 

[Frostbite3789]

You do indeed have an option. Instead of clapping along you can avoid using their service entirely.

Steam doesn't just deal in distribution. Even when buying physical copies of PC games, you still have to register them on Steam. Which requires you to agree to Steam's ToS.

Games like Dead Island, Skyrim, Saints Row the Third and many more that Valve had nothing to do with any part of creating nor distributing.