Stonking Great Game Contest Now Live!

[hamster mk 4]

I recommend the following tool (it might be for experienced to advanced users, but it shouldn't stop anyone from at least giving it a try):

FlashDevelop (open source Flash IDE)
http://www.flashdevelop.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5086

Thanks for the tip on flash develop, I looked into it last night. The problem seams that it does not create an .fla nor does it have a WYSIWYG editor for animations. I work with flash MX 2004 at work but don't have my own copy at home.

So question for the escapist folk contest requirements dictate the submission of an .fla file, however if I use this free tool to make a .swf document without an .fla, can I submit my source code files and still qualify.

Also I would like to note that there are other open source web development tools out there. My current favorite is processing (http://processing.org/). It is free, open source, and produces java script documents that can be run in browsers. It is so easy to use a friend of mine just taught a bunch of 4th-6th graders to use it on a summer school class. It does not have all the features of Flash but it was enough for me to make this game in about 4 hours as a joke:

http://monkeydev.com/bunny/

Would it be possible to use processing for this contest? Source code is Java style and much easier to read then even action script.

 

[Arkuni]

this should be good i cant wait to play the winning game but i do have one question, will the rights to the game be given to the escapist or can the maker post the game on another website

You are not allowed to upload it to any other site, not sure about your own though.

 

[Blind0bserver]

I don't really know enough about indie game development to enter this competition.

But, so long as the winning game features the floating head of Peter Molyneaux as a boss, then I'll be happy.

Well damn, you just figured out how one of my levels is going to end :/

... and before you ask, the disembodied head of Molyneaux is going to fly around and shoot lasers out of his mouth. It just wouldn't be the same if he didn't.

Obviously. Mind you, eye-beams work just as well.

Not really. With mouth lasers I'm able to add the very clever sub-text that Molyneaux is trying to kill you with all of his lofty and empty promises.

 

[invorta]

Awesome, I might look into entering.

You wouldn't be able to enter your game would you?

I mean the exsisting one since it exsisted in a playble from before the contest.

I'm hoping it won't be disqualified, as I've been working on it on and off since June 2008. I'm talking to them about it now, but even if it's disallowed I'm working on a different ZP game idea anyway, so I'll at least be able to enter one of them.

 

[aamesxdavid]

My apologies if this is straying too much from the topic, but I have a question related to ZP-inspired games.

The original page for the contest had Yahtzee quoted as saying "People have tried to make ZP-based games before." Outside the realm of the contest, what constitutes fair use for people not looking to make money, and only release their game for free?

For example, any trademarks/logos present would presumably be out of the question - they are owned by the Escapist, so you could be falsely representing them. But what of making your own assets of ZP characters? What about use of audio clips from the series?

Basically, if someone wanted to make their own ZP game, where do you draw the line and say "this is no longer okay with us, and has legal implications"?

 

[Arby]

Wut?

The blatant dis-regard for intellectual property sickens me. I was thinking about joining this until I read that we were GIVING UP EVERYTHING and that you had the rights to modify our material however you wanted and give us as much credit as you want or even take all the credit for yourself (not stated, implied. I know you probably won't cut our names entirely but the fact you dissuade us from even having our names in the opening sequence makes my senses scream malicious).

I want my games to be popular and get millions of views, yes. But I can get that from the numerous flash portals and get money on top of that from sponsors and adds (someone has already gone into that, so I'm not going to repeat it all).

It's crazy though.. You guys have it all backwards. MILLIONS of dollars are spent each year on flash games so that a company gets it's branding in a game in the hopes that the game gets distributed across the web, netting them huge views back. You guys are actually trying to stop that? Give me a break. Please do some research on how indie flash markets work, else you are alienating 99.9% of the veteran developers.

Here are the terms that I and most other indie developers want.

1. Keep our intellectual property. You gain the rights to use, distribute etc. we keep the rights to what we create. (You can't argue this! There is no reason for you to own what we made). Go look at the terms for a typical flash game contest for reference.
2. Are able to distribute the game ourselves, this doesn't cause us to claim ownership of your brand and will only improve visibility for both of us.
(optional) 3. allow us to include a 5 second intro with the ASSURANCE that you will not remove it and/or replace it with your own branding (more people do this then you know. we have become defensive about it) This will allow us to gain exposure and/or money from having made the game.

These terms do not harm you in any way and are ABSOLUTE MINIMUM in the indie flash development market. If you allow these, you will actually get veteran developers entering. If not, I have no option then other then to label this contest as probably malicious, and say enjoy the mouse avoiders, games copied from tutorials, and may the force be with you.

 

[Platinum Sorceror]

Wow, the levels of craziness in this thread are amazing.

As an indie game developer who has a game in development that will (hopefully) be released on the Steam and XBLA platforms, I have no idea where all of this brimstone and fire is coming from.

Obviously, few of you have taken the time to read all of the way through this thread. It has been stated previously that the Escapist is only protecting themselves with the full ownership clause. You realize that, were they to allow the creator to keep all rights to modify and republish his/her work, the Escapist would essentially be allowing every moron from New York to New Zealand to do whatever they want with THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.

Now, I'm all for personal rights, but I hate seeing a good company get their policies completely misinterpreted by morons who want to sound intellectual. The Escapist isn't trying to deprive you of anything, they're trying to make sure you don't go running off with the legal right to the Zero Punctuation line of work, something which you should find completely acceptable. If you still don't, then I have a few licensing contracts I'd like you to sign.

As for the people saying that there will be nothing but a huge torrent of crappy games, I don't understand you people either. It's true that the "real" veterans will stay away from this, but needless to say those people are already gainfully employed full time at an ACTUAL game developer. I know of plenty of people who are far more than competent developers but need a boost into the public eye to truly shine. I, myself, like to delude myself into thinking I'm among them. So no, we aren't going to get the best of the best of the best. Those people are making greater and shinier things. But for those who know what they're doing and just need a small push to get going in the industry, I doubt you can find a better place. Some have mentioned portal sites like Newgrounds and Kongregate. While I acknowledge that they CAN be places for a developer to get noticed, they are nowhere near a good place to showcase your work. The best most can hope for is a small following on a portal site. I, for one, stay away from portal sites due to the overwhelming amount of crap. On the other hand, ZP games will be reviewed by Yahtzee, who holds a moderately large following on the internet, as well as other judges. This is the big leagues, kids, not some Newgrounds page where people will give you "ten" reviews if there are boobs somewhere in it. If you succeed here, the path before you will open up. So either realize the opportunity at hand or get out.

Before you post, do some reading and make sure that you actually understand what's going on, people. If you don't appreciate the terms, either review what's truly at hand here or leave. I promise you won't be missed.

 

[aamesxdavid]

In an attempt to help out other people to find all the answers thus far, as well as respond to a couple myself, here's my Q&A list:

"but why cant i say ?"

Virgil - "Excessive is the key word there. There's a line where you cross into bad taste, and the staff and judges get to decide what that is, and reject the ones that go above and beyond."

"OMFG teh Escapist ownz mah gaem?? WTF?"

You are making a ZP-based game - a series on the Escapist - presumably using assets and logos from the series/site - owned by the Escapist. They're just protecting their trademark, you can't claim full dominion over the game, as you didn't create every part of it. Also, they know as well as you do who made the game, and are offering exposure for your work - more than enough compensation for any indie developer.

"Are groups allowed?"

Yes. One member will be the "team lead", and that person will be responsible for submitting the game, and dealing with any prizes that may result.

"Can I put credits in the game?"

Yes, your Escapist username or real name would both be fine.

"Can I post my game on other sites?"

No, you are using assets owned by the Escapist - see: "OMFG teh Escapist ownz mah gaem?? WTF?". *Note: it may be possible to get permission from the Escapist to do so at some point, however.

"mah codez?"

Yes, your code must be able to be reviewed to check usability and protection against any malicious software. In addition to protecting their name/trademark, they're protecting their computers, this is common sense.

"but i dun no flash"

If you're serious about learning Flash, pick up a book on it, there are plenty out there. If you're half-serious, and just want to learn barely enough to make something to constitute being called a game, google "Flash tutorial"; it's pretty easy.

"Why can't I do illegal things?"

Archon: "What that rule prohibits is acts that *even if performed in the context of a game* are prohibited under law."

Translation: Don't make your game *actually do* illegal things.

"but teh Escapist wanz to ownz mah gaemz!"

Oh, shut up, no one is telling you that you should enter. If I go out to dinner and I don't want anything on the menu, I don't yell at the waiter until they agree to make something I can get at another restaurant, because it's my money, and they shouldn't be allowed to take it from me in exchange for what they're offering. Go elsewhere, no one will miss your pointless complaints.


In queue:

hamster mk 4: "Would it be safe to assume that after the event we could strip all Zero Punctuation/Escapist art assets /references out, replace it with our own non-related content, re-release the game as our own copyright, and not get the pants sued off us by the Escapist/Themis Media?"

Rod F:

"- Can a member participate with more than 1 game? You know.. in case we manage to manipulate time and be able to generate multiple games in our spare time within the time limit...

- Can it be coded in ActionScript 2.0? Or it only matters if it runs on any current flash player?

- Can the developers include MochiBot code for their own monitoring purposes ?(we have egos, you know.. and I think there's nothing wrong with checking out how many times you guys will play our game to gather enough material in order to bash it without mercy... "Hey! Yahtzee said my game should be considered as a torture device for how bad it was... but at least I KNOW he played it 20 times!!)".

- Can members from anywhere in the world participate? (you know.. because I want that swag bag to reach the infamous shores of Uruguay if I'm lucky enough to win)."

 

[aamesxdavid]

Sorry, but this illustrated my one point perfectly:

I want my games to be popular and get millions of views, yes. But I can get that from the numerous flash portals and get money on top of that from sponsors and adds (someone has already gone into that, so I'm not going to repeat it all).

Then go off to your flash portals, and get the fame and fortune you so obviously deserve, and leave the rest of us to make games because it's fun, and it would be a personal joy to see it up on a popular site. And if we gain some notoriety beyond that, as well as some swag, and the possibility for interest from a AAA developer, then all the better.

No tears will be shed due to your absence, we will be better off without "veterans" such as yourself.

 

[Rod F]

Epic Combo-Breaker

What he said!

Understand the basic premise:

You make a game with OUR stuff, about OUR intellectual propety: so WE get to keep it, becuase WE don't want OUR stuff to be used everywhere without the proper licensing.

What's in for YOU? YOU get the exposure YOU DESERVE for making the best game in the contest. That way YOU will probably end being picked up by some game developer company or even by US to make MORE GAMES THAT INVOLVE REAL MONEY!YOU can even say in your resume that YOU WON A CONTEST as proof of your excellence to stand out from a crowd of game developers. Hell, you can brag to other people that YOU got picked up by YAHTZEE, who we all know he's harsh to 99,9% of games out there, to be the representation of HIS whole web-series.

Oh, and YOU get a swag bag as a physicall manifestation of your programming skills.

Come on, people! See the big picture! It's a great opportunity to STAND OUT and get EXPOSURE!!!! Everytime you sign to make a game with other people's IP you are sometimes considered LUCKY if you ever get to say your name in the credits!!! (but you get good money for that... in this case, the 'money' part is potential to be exploited latet)

EDIT: Oh and thanks to the user that quoted my questions, I would love to have them answered, Thanks man

Oh and what he said about guys wanting to have their fame and fortune in Newgrounds or Kongragate or whatever... it ain´t easy to stand out in there... you´re game could be the next best thing but, in the case of Newgrounds, if you´re not highlighted the next day with an award or, lucky you, on front page... your game gets forgotten just as easy...

 

[Platinum Sorceror]

aamesxdavid, you read my mind.

Jarico, thanks for the welcome! Ironically, I registered to be able to participate in the contest. It seems that no matter where I go, my first post on the forums is always a tsunami of furious anger and barely controlled rage.

Eh, what can ya do?

Good luck, all!

 

[hamster mk 4]

I thank Platinum Sorceror and aamesxdavid for being the voices of reason in what has become a some what bad tempered discussion. However I fear the damage has already been done. It has been just over 24 hours without a post from an escapist official. I fear they have written off this thread as a flame war. It is a shame because there are still questions pending.

By the way welcome to the escapist it is not always this bad.

 

[Blind0bserver]

aamesxdavid, you read my mind.

Jarico, thanks for the welcome! Ironically, I registered to be able to participate in the contest. It seems that no matter where I go, my first post on the forums is always a tsunami of furious anger and barely controlled rage.

Eh, what can ya do?

Good luck, all!

Hey, if it's any consolation I like your style (we're talking about the tsunami of very poignant furious anger and barely controlled rage, of course). It's good to have you here. Personally I can't wait to see whatever it is your going to crank out.

 

[scarybug]

"OMFG teh Escapist ownz mah gaem?? WTF?"

You are making a ZP-based game - a series on the Escapist - presumably using assets and logos from the series/site - owned by the Escapist. They're just protecting their trademark, you can't claim full dominion over the game, as you didn't create every part of it. Also, they know as well as you do who made the game, and are offering exposure for your work - more than enough compensation for any indie developer.

"mah codez?"

Yes, your code must be able to be reviewed to check usability and protection against any malicious software. In addition to protecting their name/trademark, they're protecting their computers, this is common sense.

Adorable, use lolcat speech to mock your opponent's argument. That's as productive as using sarcasm to, wait. sorry.

There is no reason to check against malicious software. It's Flash. It has insane security protection. No other site ever makes coders submit code for this reason. You think Addicting Games or Kongregate or Newgrounds get to, or have time to, look at the source code for all the games submitted to them? The only sites that do make people submit code are those that rip the developer's name out of the file and post the game as their own. Not that I'm accusing Escapist of planning this, because I don't think they're dumb or evil, but flash developers have heard or had horror stories from shady sponsor sites doing this. That means any experienced coder is going to be very wary of giving up his or her source code. It's just a thing. If you're actually worried about offensive easter eggs, then you make your contest winner sign a contract agreeing to pay for any damages caused by hiding offensive content in the game so if you get sued you aren't liable for damages.

Now you say it uses escapist assets, so you can't claim full ownership because you don't own all elements of the game? But Escapist isn't creating the code, and they DO own the game fully? Sorry but dumping a bunch of elements into a zip file is not as much work as making a game. You could easily allow a developer to keep the rights to his code to use in a differently skinned game. That way everyone would own the thing they actually made.

The only time game developers give up source code is when they are payed to write it.

Also Platinum Sorcerer, depicting someone who disagrees with you as "crazy" is not remotely helpful. I understand that this contest will be fun for people trying to learn flash. I'm just explaining that The Escapist has closed the door to the mainstream flash game developer community because of the terms of the contest. If they want a professional-level flash game, they could change the terms very slightly to protect everyone's interests and not have to pay a cent more for it.

 

[Arby]

I find it absolutely hilarious that Yahtzee uses characters from various games in parody and claims it as intellectual property, but then when it's time that other people use his stuff in parody it's suddenly OH, WAIT, BATTER DOWN THE HATCHES MEN.

But ignoring that little(?) detail... you guys talk as if every game is going to get publicity. I would like more information about this because as far as we've heard, it's winner-takes-all which is absurd when you're dealing with something that takes a large amount of time to make (I did read the thread. they said they were "on the fence" about showing runner ups). If you don't win, you've spent a large portion of time making something that you can't use anywhere else, you don't even own anymore... If you've had ANY experience with contests, you will see how bad this could turn out. I've seen too many games contests end in tears... Then, it reflects badly on the host.. etc.

BTW, the reason i'm even bothering to bang this into your obviously hardened skulls is because intellectual property is the #1 concern in the flash industry. Mainly because situations like this are abused by the people running them. I'm not saying that they WILL, but if they use this as an excuse to rack up huge amounts of viral media then use it to promote themselves with only a footnote for the people responsible for it, I'll be disappointed in them. And if you don't think that's a problem, reconsider how much you actually think your work is valuable.

 

[Rod F]

Hopefully those members that discard the flame war will get the good out of this and start making their games.

 

[JHelfrich]

I apologize if this has already been answered somewhere in this thread but what would be the policy on additional art/sound/animation taken from the reviews themselves or would we be limited to the contest assets package and original content?