This whole idea that a man should be "grateful" for a women that has sex with him is really pathetic and undignified.
What's even worse is how many guys are ok with it.
Stop Camping Your Girlfriend for Sex
- Thread starter Lara Crigger
- Start date
What's even worse is how many guys are ok with it.
I don't think you were necessarily a Nice Guy. My other half is very nice, but he's never been a Nice Guy.Sandytimeman said:
A Nice Guy (in this context) is one of those men with a sense of entitlement, who commodifies women and thinks that because he has done X, Y and Z he is entitled to romance or sex. You see them online all the time saying things like, "Why do chicks always dig jerks and treat nice guys like crap? I did all these things and she still went off with someone else!" You know, those guys who don't see that being hateful about women or treating them like chattel is actually not nice at all.
Romance is not like a BioWare game, where if you follow the walkthrough you get laid, because human beings have their own preferences and free will to express them. If you're naturally nice, don't stop being nice. Treating others like people is ultimately the way to get the most satisfying playthrough in real life.
Why is it that modifying your behavior to be "nice" isn't cool, but modifying it to be a jackass is? I constantly see advice on this forum telling people to be more of an asshole, more of a jerk. It seems like THAT is the "X, Y, and Z" that works.ms_sunlight said:
I mean, if one example of behavior modification is manipulative and demeaning, surely the other HAS to be as well.
![])rStrangelove](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/125/125479.jpg?1621029148){kind=avatar}
I see this a lot in partner websites, a lot of women seem to want a strong, secure, independant man who has a realistic outlook on his life / is not an illusional dreamer.KaiusCormere said:
A mixture of Bruce Willis and George Clooney, somebody who acts and looks like he doesnt really need a relationship, but is open for an opportunity.
And then they also want somebody who carries them / protects them / supports them / does everything for them / spends a lot of time with them.
It seems Mr.Paradox is a wanted man.
It's always an 'all he wants is sex' problem- I would prefer that to my 'he has almost no sex drive' problem!
I just think ladies are too picky these days! Aren't we just crazy!
I just think ladies are too picky these days! Aren't we just crazy!
So... you want people to be selfish assholes, wasting their life away? Okay, let me make it a little more clear that this 'guy' I was talking to just in general seemed like a boring, bitter douche bag, and his constant playing of WoW was just one symptom I observed to give that diagnosis. And what I'm saying is that other people can have the (perfectly fine) symptoms, but not necessarily have the disease.el_kabong said:
Exactly... I think. Whatever.FluxCapacitor said:
Well I'm mostly concerned about what it would sound like to the girl herself.FluxCapacitor said:
Okay, now I should really explain some of what I mean when I say 'cool' or 'lame'.FluxCapacitor said:
Coolness = patience, selflessness, being interesting, being friendly, loving passionately, being able to let go of things, making other people feel good about themselves, ext
Lameness = the opposite of everything mentioned above
And in addition, one thing I've come to realize (that is kinda related to 'coolness) is that if you're always there for your partner; if you're always available to play with them, they lose a lot of immediate interest in you. I've noticed a pattern with me and this girl (and other girls I've chatted to online over the last few years):
There'd be a time where I'd be online for a few hours every single night; I'd always be on before she was. And she would log in very infrequently; once or twice a week. Then finally, I'd give up and not log in very often, then suddenly, she was logging in all the time; she'd usually be on if I were on. Her faithful presence very quickly make me bored of our time together, so I started logging in very rarely. Thus, the cycle went on and on.
But then finally, I became aware of the cycle, and figured out that the way to break it is to ration out your time to them; don't log in some nights even if you kinda want to; tell them 'I have to get off at [insert time here]' even if you're free all night; and so on. The simple fact is humans are programmed as hunter-gatherers; we love to fight for and earn and obtain things. That's why RPGs are so appealing to a lot of us, and that's why if you present yourself to your partner as some unlimited, perpetually available recourse, they will probably get bored and you'll both suffer. (My, this is a lot like what Laura about letter #2!)
So maybe NOW you can see why being so willing to take an extended road trip to their house would send a lameness message. Now I've been chatting with this girl for over two years; we've even sent pictures of ourselves to each other (confirming our ages and genders) and have a mutual desire to meet in real life some day. So given this exact context, here's my very loose plan that I think would work:
Find some other reason to go in their approximate direction: business trip, visiting family, whatever. Then tell them, "You know, I could leave a day early, then take a detour to your city, and we could spend a day together in the middle of my trip!"
If they're smart (or if you hint), they'll probably figure out that you planned it that way. Which only makes it better, at least for me and her personally. I think that if she knew I really wanted to be with her, but knew better than to devote too much time to her, she'd like that. It's like when Stan Marsh--at the living museum--said to the employees who never break character,
"Uhhh, look, can we just drop the whole roleplaying thing? I would play along, but my girlfriend's here and I don't wanna look like a total dork in front of her."
And then Wendy, who was in fact standing right next to him, thanked him for that.
****
Disclaimers again:
1: I acknowledge the following statement: what the hell would I know about relationships? I've yet to be in a serious physical one.
2: I acknowledge that some parts of this post are ridiculously obvious.
Oh, okay - you're not worried what other people think, you're worried what she'll think...UltraHammer said:
In that case, you've been talking for 2 years?! Jump, man! And do it without any kind of smokescreen. Don't make her feel like a detour on your journey somewhere else, make her feel good about being worth the long trip to come see her. That's pretty selfless if you play it right, especially if you don't push the physical side. If it happens, awesome - if not, let it go without drama. That'll maintain the image that I think you're going for - you like this girl, and she's worth your time, but if you can't have her it's not the end of the world.
Don't ask me and expect an answer - I don't advise anyone to go around acting like an arsehole! I can't stand manipulative behaviour at all. That kind of bullshit belongs to surrendered wives and "the rules" and idiots that think NLP is science.KaiusCormere said:
Err.. So fun to see how everyone disagrees and agrees.
Everyone is a consultant these days are we not?
Sensible advice, and fun to read too!
Why was it fun to read? Erm..
>.>
<.<
Not because I got some weird reading other people's problems fetisch or anything.
STOP STARING AT ME!
[disclaimer] The written above is ment as a jest. The author has no weird fetisch. [/disclaimer]
Everyone is a consultant these days are we not?
Sensible advice, and fun to read too!
Why was it fun to read? Erm..
>.>
<.<
Not because I got some weird reading other people's problems fetisch or anything.
STOP STARING AT ME!
[disclaimer] The written above is ment as a jest. The author has no weird fetisch. [/disclaimer]
Well that's part of what I said...FluxCapacitor said:
The thing is, we're only 18 and 17 years old (with me as the younger one). When we first started talking, we were 16 and 15. So you can see why we've just kept talking for so long. Even now, I have a ways to go before I'm independent enough to take a road trip without anyone knowing, and the same for her. Plus, I've still got.. *looks at calendar* five months before I get out of highly-dangerous minor-to-non-minor territory.FluxCapacitor said:
You're so, super ultra right! I'm glad I talked about this here!FluxCapacitor said:
Yep.FluxCapacitor said:
Avid gamer or a love life.
I chose gamer. I sympathise with people who feel that they are forced to try and have a girlfriend/boyfriend because society tells them its "normal". This view that any man who chooses games over girls is an idiot is annoying to say the least. Its their choice stop making it seem like somebodies opinion is wrong.
I chose gamer. I sympathise with people who feel that they are forced to try and have a girlfriend/boyfriend because society tells them its "normal". This view that any man who chooses games over girls is an idiot is annoying to say the least. Its their choice stop making it seem like somebodies opinion is wrong.
Actually, no, her job is to entertain. That's why the advice is published. Once you realize that the job of every advice columnist is ultimately to entertain readers, it all begins to make a lot more sense.artanis_neravar said:
What I assumed when reading the letter (and what Lara might have figured as well), was that the parents wanted to meet the girl, but didn't necessarily want to turn it into a huge thing. My parents are like that as well (they're overprotective as fuck and wanna meet everyone I associate with), but if I (as a person of-age) were living with them they wouldn't request formal dinners with people I meet; even they would be willing to talk to those friends a little if they came over for a visit, or came to pick me up for something. They understand that after a certain age, asking someone (especially of the opposite sex) sends a certain message, and would keep that in mind when trying to arrange something. I wouldn't be shocked if the guy used this as an opportunity to ask the girl out unofficially, and now is in denial that he ever intended it to be a date (though since he says he now wants to ask her out "again," even he isn't completely sold on that front).Dastardly said:
Can't say anything about the other example you cited because I never read it, but for this one I personally noticed a couple things (including what I already posted above):Katatori-kun said:
- He tried "to move slowly with this relationship"--what relationship, were they not already friends?
- His parents like to meet his friends, and I doubt they're oblivious to the notion that a 21-year old dude asking a chick to dinner might come off the wrong way. Kinda sounds like he used an opportunity where they could/would have been more than willing to meet her casually and/or in passing, to ask her out on a date. A theory that is somewhat reinforced by the fact that
- He says it would have been platonic (i.e., he wasn't doing this to ask her out), but then says "I still feel courageous enough to ask her again." As in, he wants to ask her out again. But I thought he hadn't done that yet, because the dinner invite was "platonic."
- Her exact words are "You know we're friends, and that's as far as it goes, right?", but now he's convinced himseld that this has changed, that she now may like her, and that he should ask her again.
Now these things individually aren't necessarily signs of Nice Guy behavior (or even bad behavior, for that matter); hoping that a girl you have a crush on has changed her mind isn't inherently bad on its own, for example, and it's not a heinous crime to not want to tell a person you have a crush on them, the minute you realize it. However, taken as a whole, they could easily show a less noble personality, and that interpretation isn't that fat-fetched. While he didn't know at first sight he wanted to be with her, he knew early enough to know he wanted to "move slowly" into asking her out (i.e., he was working towards the end goal of going out with her). As a 21-year old adult he could have easily either told his parents not to ask to meet his friends anymore, or could have compromised and said they could meet her when she came by to pick him up for something/when she hung out at his place/etc, but he chose to ask her to dinner with his parents instead. He says he intended the dinner to be platonic, but considers the invite to be a first stab at asking her out and/or figuring out his feelings for him, and as he can't get over her, is interpreting possible friendliness to mean she's into him after all, even though she made it pretty clear that's not going to happen, and is asking advice on how to do this asking, rather than asking "do you think I'm reading too much into this/should I drop it?", which would be the genuine-nice-guy reaction to the situation, given her reaction to his dinner invite. If not to just give up altogether and just try and be content as friends. His persistence in trying to ask her out when she made it clear friends are as far as they go, and the very real possibility that he used his parents' interest in his friends to ask her to dinner, both strongly indicate that he may not be all that innocent, and that he may very well fit the Nice Guy archetype.
Of course, he also may not. But the basis for the assumption does exist, if you know how to look for it.
I agree that the guy was probably using it as an excuse to make it a date. Kind of like showing up with two tickets to a movie accidentally and saying, "Wow, that's crazy, I accidentally got two -- wanna go?" It was likely just testing the waters.minuialear said:
But the problem there is the guy not being honest with himself (or his lady-friend) about the dating issue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting folks to meet your family, or your family wanting to meet your friends (as long as, being an adult, you can say "no" or "not yet," which we have no reason to believe isn't the case). There is no reason to assume it was some kind of parental "approval process."
It would be like if my reply to Lara was, "Just because you're not on good terms with your family, or your family's a bunch of nosy nutters doesn't mean everyone is like that." A reply like that makes a lot of off-base assumptions about a person's family and values, and has no basis in fact but rather in trying to have a bit of a sting to it.
I agree with that. After re-reading that sentence it does sound like she was off the mark on the approval part.Dastardly said: