Student Protest

[fullbleed]

Oh if only there were some other way to pay for education or get rid of debts.. err ... ah .. i hmmm.. dunno taxing the rich... maybe?

[HEADING=1]NO! NO, DO NOT TAX THE RICH. NEVER TAX THE RICH! NOT NOW NOT EVER![/HEADING]

 

[CompetingMantis]

I've been reading these forums for a while, and decided finally to register when I saw this thread because, well, I was there!

I arrived at the Millbank building just as the bonfires got going, and stayed there for a couple hours to watch (and, yes, to chant) as it all unfolded. Apart from anything else, it was amazing to see how easy it is to get caught up in a situation like this, and how easily it can escalate. After about half an hour it was no longer about anything to do with student fees, and the atmosphere was more like a festival, or school outing or something. Everyone was standing around chanting 'Tory scum' and cheering as waves of protestors threw themselves at the riot police.

I truly believe however that, apart from the incident where someone threw a fire extinguisher from the roof (which shocked everyone there, and even prompted the crowd to break out into chants of 'stop throwing shit') most of it wasn't truly malicious and the majority of the violence, from what I saw, was attributable to the actions of about 50 or so idiots at the front of the pack.

First Welcome to the escapist! This is the first forum iv ever made as well i feel like we have a very loose bond somehow.

So apart from the few things that were done by thugs (e.g fire extinguishers) Did u think it was better things went the way they did or would you of rather carried on with the march and not stormed any buildings?

Personally, I definitely had more fun at the riots than the rest of the march, and of course it's gained a huge amount of media attention for the cause...

However I really think that in essence all the riots really did were further sully the reputations of the nation's young people and cheapen the protest somewhat. I don't think there's any justification for the violence that ensued and it's certainly not going to change anything. A non-violent sit-in, or even just leaving it at the bonfires would have been great, but smashing windows and chucking stuff at police? A tad too far, I feel.

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the welcome =D

 

[Lexodus]

I was there too. It really wasn't as bad as it's been chalked up to be, and although it was a little over the top, peaceful protests do not work at all. I can only hope that, with what's happened today, the shitrags in charge will understand that we are not going to stand for this; perhaps now, after they've gotten over the shock of 'OMGWTF happened?" they'll start to question WHY it happened, and see how ridiculous it all is. Part of the reason people were so pissed off was because there are MANY ways to get the money without having to slash budgets- the bankers, those bastards that crippled the global economy, are doing less work and STILL taking bonuses, and there are 19 millionaires in the cabinet alone. On top of this, Clegg lied to the people who elected him (as soon as he got in power he welshed on his promise to prevent such cuts) and Cameron and the others all went to top universities like Oxford and Cambridge when education was FREE.

Mark my words, Escapists; this is definitely not the last we've seen of this. People are fed up with the unnecessary shit the government's pulling, and we've finally seen just how angry they'll get, and it will only get worse.

 

[Kirkby]

Personally, I definitely had more fun at the riots than the rest of the march, and of course it's gained a huge amount of media attention for the cause...

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the welcome =D

However I really think that in essence all the riots really did were further sully the reputations of the nation's young people and cheapen the protest somewhat. I don't think there's any justification for the violence that ensued and it's certainly not going to change anything. A non-violent sit-in, or even just leaving it at the bonfires would have been great, but smashing windows and chucking stuff at police? A tad too far, I feel.

Im surprised more people didnt get beaten by riot police actually... There was a lot of shit thrown and they just seemed to take it, infact.. Y did they let those people kick in the windows in the first place? They could of stopped them.

p.s Np we are generally a friendly bunch at the escapist, you know, when we aren't discussing politics and the like

 

[andyallen123]

i was part of the 50,000 people protesting. i wasnt involved in the violence but im not supprised it happend. there was a lot of anger in the air and the building was on the route of the protest. yes its wrong, no i dont condone it, yes it was bound to happen.

btw we pay our taxes for all these services which we are now being denied. students didnt start the economic crisis so why should our tuition fees be raised to bail the govenment out.

 

[thebighead01]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

 

[3aqua]

I was there, it was great the art students made the banners and posters and the music student wrote the rhymes and the maths and science students stayed home and played starcraft : )

 

[andyallen123]

I was there today, I helped tear up the lobby and stole an office chair and relaxed in the middle of the violence.

I'm a Tory, I think the entire day was a success.

well done!!!

 

[Lexodus]

I was there today, I helped tear up the lobby and stole an office chair and relaxed in the middle of the violence.

I'm a Tory, I think the entire day was a success.

You were there too? I was the guy in the V mask and suit with the crutches, who ended up getting sucked into the building twice :L

 

[Bobic]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

You seem like an ill informed fool so no, not really.

 

[Snork Maiden]

A government should help those who cannot help themselves. The conservatives exist to help those who don't actually need help, and fuck all the rest who do.

Er... yeah. But I was just pointing out why the new funding plan doesn't actually harm the poor anymore than the rich. The only people who are better off are the ones who have all fees paid for by their family, but this is the case now anyway.

But cheers for not actually refuting any points.

Oh, sorry. I was kind of going off-topic from the beginning, whatever debate is struck up about this particular policy, I just love jumping at the chance to rant about what an awful bunch of shitheads the tories are.

Oh, well I think thats a sport we can all enjoy.

 

[Kashyyk]

I'm at the age where I'll be the first set of students to pay for these new fees So I'm all for protesting. But as everyone else has said, violence just makes it worse. I wish I could've been there, but I didn't have the money to get into London.

 

[Kirkby]

I was there today, I helped tear up the lobby and stole an office chair and relaxed in the middle of the violence.

I'm a Tory, I think the entire day was a success.

I might of seen you on TV. So you reckon u made ur point and its the right way to go? Also im guessing the police didnt take any of ur details at all?

Out of interest, did you take the office chair home? U should hold on to it as a keepsake = P, you know something to tell the grandkids and all

 

[CompetingMantis]

Im surprised more people didnt get beaten by riot police actually... There was a lot of shit thrown and they just seemed to take it, infact.. Y did they let those people kick in the windows in the first place? They could of stopped them.

p.s Np we are generally a friendly bunch at the escapist, you know, when we aren't discussing politics and the like

A lot of what I saw being thrown were drinks cans or bits of wood from the placards, nothing that would have done any substantial damage really. At the start when the windows were broken there were hardly any police there, certainly not enough to cover both the windows and doors, which were the priority. Later, when the riot police showed up with helmets and shields they were better able to defend their position, but by then it was too late and tons of people were already either on the roof or in the building somewhere.

I was there too. It really wasn't as bad as it's been chalked up to be, and although it was a little over the top, peaceful protests do not work at all. I can only hope that, with what's happened today, the shitrags in charge will understand that we are not going to stand for this; perhaps now, after they've gotten over the shock of 'OMGWTF happened?" they'll start to question WHY it happened, and see how ridiculous it all is. Part of the reason people were so pissed off was because there are MANY ways to get the money without having to slash budgets- the bankers, those bastards that crippled the global economy, are doing less work and STILL taking bonuses, and there are 19 millionaires in the cabinet alone. On top of this, Clegg lied to the people who elected him (as soon as he got in power he welshed on his promise to prevent such cuts) and Cameron and the others all went to top universities like Oxford and Cambridge when education was FREE.

Mark my words, Escapists; this is definitely not the last we've seen of this. People are fed up with the unnecessary shit the government's pulling, and we've finally seen just how angry they'll get.

Still a bit pumped, eh? I can't really believe how into it everyone got - setting off flares, screaming at the police, and someone even brought along a drum-and-bass sound system haha. I have to admit I'm way more angry about the issue than I was before I went today, it's definitely rubbed off.

Most of the time people seemed absolutely pissed off because as a generation, we are paying for the budget deficit caused by the mistakes of the older generation, who got their education for free. Hypocritical and unfair much?

 

[thebighead01]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

You seem like an ill informed fool so no, not really.

lol, damn you make a compelling, logical argument, i take back everything i said. reverting to insults? what happened to being dignified. lol

 

[Lexodus]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

I'm with you on this one. If I'm protesting, I don't want some cock in a fluorescent jacket telling me exactly what I can and can't do. I'm PROTESTING, for fuck's sake. I'm unhappy with the way things are and I want them to change, and that includes you!
If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

 

[fullbleed]

Oh if only there were some other way to pay for education or get rid of debts.. err ... ah .. i hmmm.. dunno taxing the rich... maybe?

[HEADING=1]NO! NO, DO NOT TAX THE RICH. NEVER TAX THE RICH! NOT NOW NOT EVER![/HEADING]

I recall a rather amusing quote from a book I read which was discussing Blair: "apparently, Britian's heart is made of working families with their nose permanently to the grindstone - or at least it is according to Blair. But hang on, as a Labour party member, isn't his job to help them get their nose off the grindstone? and if he's a member of the labour party, shouldn't his course of action to be to, y'know, tax the rich a little? even just a tiny percentage increase would generate sums so large that the inland revenue would run out of carrier bags to put it all in. But no, according to Blair, they would "hire accountants to do this and that" and exploit loopholes in the system. Carrying out an illegal and controversial invasion that no-body actually wants in order to do battle with militant jihadists? Bring it on! Accountants doing "this and that"? oh, Christ no! to the boats! to the boats!"

But at least with blair we could all act shocked and say "what a twat he turned out to be, eh?". When the toffs start giving most people in Britian a great big financial punch in the face in favour of rewarding the people who don't actually need any more money, all we can really say is "We fucking knew this would happen, it's not like it didn't already happen just THIRTY YEARS AGO FFS!"

I'm losely paraphrasing a quote from a book I've got called "Is it Just Me Or is Everything Shit?", pretty apt a title no?

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Hey everyone, to catch up none UK residents and people not watching the news....

First of all in the UK the government is raising the annual fee of £3000 to £9000 for university students, this has caused a lot of anger and today a protest turned a little violent today.

Students stormed the Millbank tower and began protesting there. Windows were smashed and bonfires lit but no one was seriously hurt. The media is up in arms about it and everyone is calling it a disgrace. But is it?

I mean as far as i know no ones been hurt and the most violent thing i saw was window smashing and its gotten the nations attention, unlike every other "peaceful" protest so maybe something will now be done.

So topic for discussion.. If youv been following this on the news are you for or against this protest? If you dont live in the UK/dont know wtf is going on, do you think peaceful protests are effective? Or is it sometimes good to cause a stir to raise awareness for an important cause

p.s just to state its important to remember there have been no serious injuries, obviously very violent protests are always wrong

I'm surprised nobody thought costs for going to school would go up anyway. I do think that £6000 is a high raise(how much is that in USD?), I thinking that they are apparently making up for raised that they didn't do ever year.

Here in the US, the tuition for colleges and universities raises ever year, I think it raised at least 1000 USD this year, and I believe it was close to that amount it raised last year. This year I am paying over 15000 this year, I remember only a few years ago it was barely over 13000.

That is a lot of money, significantly more than I pay, and I am in very close to the most expensive university program in Canada.

How much? I have to pay ~$6000 a year (about 3000 pounds... huh).

$11 500 Canadian for tuition, residence is $6000 a year.

You guys have it easy up there.

I'm paying 15000 this year, and that's only because I'm an in-state resident. If I came from out of state, I think the cost would go up to at least 20000 or more.

I'm just glad I didn't decide to go to the private university that is next to the one I am going to, their in state tuition is 32000 a year.

 

[Bobic]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

You seem like an ill informed fool so no, not really.

lol, damn you make a compelling, logical argument, i take back everything i said. reverting to insults? what happened to being dignified. lol

I said it in my poshest most dignified voice.

 

[thebighead01]

You obviously missed the bit where someone threw a fire extinguisher onto the police from the roof, that coulda been quite deadly.

Also, I wouldn't say the media are that up in arms about it, both bbc and sky news have made a point about saying that only a few of the protesters are being twonks and that most of the students there were being nice, peaceful and productive.

Anyway, I am very much against the violent destructive side of the protest. It undermines any serious point people were trying to make, it also causes the protesters to appear like a bunch of uncivilised scumbags.

And to anyone that says they don't think peaceful protests can work I'll ask you to remember ghandi, the guy's a household name for a reason

good for the students, especially the ones who used violence. Before you idiots start quoting Gandhi let me remind that 1 million people came to the streets of London to protest against going to war in Iraq and we STILL went. And that protest was peaceful beyond any reason. And let me also remind you that protesting against anything is harder than ever in this country. You have details taken, photographs taken, can be arrested under anti-terrorism legislation for protesting, black listed, etc. Please don't be simple by saying that all these students had to so was protest peacefully because lets face it the government will be passing this through parliament whether anyone likes it or not. It's better to go down fighting than on your knees. I just hope there are more protests like this in the future.

If they'll be passing it no matter what what's the point in causing pointless destruction and injuring innocent, hard working, productive police officers?

And I'd say it's better to go down fighting in a civil dignified manner than like a screaming brat.

you serious??? innocent? hard working? productive??? police officers enforce, no, blindly enforce laws passed by politicians not in an effort to protect people but make the biggest politically influential group in any western democracy feel safe and happy i.e. the middle classes. when they say that people should be protesting peacefully it means that you have to play by their rules. to subvert them in defiance is a win. so called civil dignity is a clean term that they use to demonise those opposed to them while making them seem legitimate. it also means that people like you swallow it up and say more please. and that pointless destruction was targeted, for one, at conservative headquarters, the people who are in government right now doing their best to cut everything they see. do you really want to continue this conversation???

You seem like an ill informed fool so no, not really.

lol, damn you make a compelling, logical argument, i take back everything i said. reverting to insults? what happened to being dignified. lol

I said it in my poshest most dignified voice.