Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent

[Jegsimmons]

and here come the non theist calling religion violent despite its just people who are violent and religion (well the big ones) are totally against it.

hell political ideology such as nazism and communism has cause more deaths in 100 years than religion in the past 1500 years.

how ever...yes they have a point in this study, but i think its only coincidence.

Funny you should mention the Nazis, since the Nazis' "political" agenda was largely driven by Hitler's religious beliefs. Not even really just Hitler.

I'd like to see your sources and numbers on that, though. Could be an interesting read.

yeeeaaahhhhh....no....hitler wasnt a christian. he even spoke against it.

Also, these were written by an atheist.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/godless-gross/the-body-count-issue-20100827-13v8a.html

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-san-diego/atheist-vs-christian-whose-killed-more-and-who-will-survive


Also, the fact that atheist regimes have killed so many in just 112 years when you have to go back hundreds upon hundreds of years to get those numbers on the religious side is worth acknowledging.

And if you say "Well they didn't do it in the NAME of atheism!" well true, but at the same time....they still fucking did it. Most religions teach AGAINST murder and killing, however just like these regimes, people will use what ever to achieve their selfish goals. Humans are just prone to violence and corruption.

 

[NaramSuen]

I have been racking my brains to come up with how religion is tied to violence in Mass Effect 2, but I am not having any luck. Samara is a Justicar which has religious overtones, particularly in terms of her militant commitment to the Code of Justice, but she is not presented as any more violent than the Krogans who seem to be completely devoid of religious beliefs. The closest is the use of the term Heretic in regards to A House Divided, but that is a bit of stretch in my opinion.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Ah, I see your position much better, well the theory of skepticism/atheism really comes down to two words: "Prove it." In terms of academics I don't know anyone who suggests that they know there is no God because we understand things on an atomic level (in fact saying that last part of the sentence is just plain stupid, we don't fully understand plenty of reality). Of course there's also plenty of examples of people attempting to argue on the grounds you're presenting, but beyond the argument that 'we understand all this, there's still plenty left to understand, but we have found no evidence of god(s)' it's a pretty poor defensive point.

I merely used the atomic thing as an example. Again, I'm simply not convinced one way or the other because knowledge, as of now, is not finite. Claiming to understand the inner most workings of something doesn't necessarily rule out the supernatural and vice versa. It's part of the reason why I mentioned pantheism, that God isn't a person or thing, but laws of nature.

 

[Twilight_guy]

In video games religion is always either evil or just a set piece in the background. It's as cliche as having the guy with a funny accent be the villain. It gets a bit unnerving when you consider the message that sends as whole but individually its either a convenient way or telling story or a story crutch(you mean the church actually worships Satan? What a twist, nobody's ever done that before).

 

[mjcabooseblu]

Does anybody else realize just how the comments above such as "Well duh religion is violent", "religion is racist", "religion is a pox upon society" kind of tie in to the point the student was trying to make.

As a game designer and a catholic I actually agree with him quite a lot. It's hard to find a plot line in a video game that has a religion where that religion isn't all that's wrong with the world. Think about it, who are the good characters of faith in video games? You know the people who are supposed to set a positive role model for faith? The only two I could think of were Yuna from FFX and Ashley Williams from Mass Effect. The role models in video games for people of faith are someone who was tricked into following a lie through her naivety(Yuna) and someone who, while capable, is not the sharpest tool in the shed (Ashley).

Seriously I feel like the internet has been unwittingly and unintentionally indoctrinated into this belief that religion is evil. Extra Creditz made the point that if game designers, out of sloth/laziness, portrayed all Arabs as extremists/terrorists that it would feed into the gamer cultural psych. Using that same point, if all game plots portray religion as an violent, bigoted, narcissistic entity couldn't that feed into the gamer cultural psych?

Gamers aren't immune to being indoctrinated in this manner; nobody is.

Sigh. I promised myself I wouldn't get involved, but then somebody had to go and say something retarded.

You seem very adamant in your understanding of the student's "point," yet also make it abundantly clear that you did not actually read the study. At most you read the title of this post and the first few sentences. The student isn't trying to make any sort of "point," they're just observing a trend that happens to make for a good narrative. Also, you claim it hard to find a game with religion in it where religion isn't inherently evil. I counter with two incredibly obvious examples you have apparently overlooked: Assassin's Creed 2 and Skyrim. "But wait!" I hear you cry. "In Assassin's Creed, the Templars are the bad guys!" To which I reply...yeah. Welcome to the point. The Templars are the bad guys. The Templars are not, however, all of religion. They're simply one very vocal group. In fact, Ezio himself is portrayed as a man of faith, and he's a heroic badass. As for Skyrim...does this really need explanation? Seriously. The closest thing to "problematization" of religion in that game is the portrayal of crazy cults as...well, crazy cults. You'll note that almost all of the cast of good guys believe in the divines, and many are open followers.

Welcome to logic. I know, it must feel weird to have an atheist provide a logical argument in a discussion about religion and gaming, but hey. I'm a weird guy.

 

[Kimarous]

Homeopathy isn't religion. It IS bullshit, though.

I was not trying to say anything about homeopathy. I agree that it's crap.

Why are you trying to force this clearly false claim of universe-creation with actual science, it won't fit. And the time-scales set by scientists are based not on the earth being creased by a giant creator but by natural scientific forces.

I'm not "trying to force" anything. I was just proving that not all religious people are creationists.

BTW, love how you're like to say "clearly false" and "won't fit" without providing a specific rebuttal. Once again you're just shoving your fingers in your ears and going "la la la" without actually giving it consideration.

Right, and Eve being made from Adam's rib and just two breeding pairs repopulating the earth in a few thousands years without being crippled by inbreeding. Not to mention how this DOES contradict both science and the "theistic evolution" as mentioned.

I'm not arguing the semantics of Adam and Eve. I was just presenting a different viewpoint of creation in general.

This is unbearable. I never thought I'd see someone try to scientifically defend genesis on Escapist forums.

Yay, I got under your skin! ^_^

 

[217not237]

Well, I think the Geth are metaphors for Christians and Quarians are metaphors for Muslims, at least that's how I interpret it, one believing in a, in this case, race of all-powerful, immortal beings and invading the others home. Hell, I'm pretty sure Shepard is just Jesus, except he/she kills gods instead.

 

[Kimarous]

Well, I think the Geth are metaphors for Christians and Quarians are metaphors for Muslims, at least that's how I interpret it, one believing in a, in this case, race of all-powerful, immortal beings and invading the others home. Hell, I'm pretty sure Shepard is just Jesus, except he/she kills gods instead.

So Muslims made Christians as slaves, then made a preemptive strike against their growing faith and got booted out of Mecca as a result, which the Christians are keeping pristine for whenever peace is made with the now wandering Muslims?

 

[Evil Alpaca]

So much rage and insulting over a seemingly uncontroversial point. The guy was saying that organized religion is often used in video games.

However this can be said for anything. Look at government in games. Notice how the big bad government often tends to be an Orwellian superpower or official trying to make one? Are games anti-government or are they using a general image that most people can relate with?

Same with religion. No one is ever sent on a quest to stop the evil Overlord Jebadiah from living a peaceful life without the corrupting influence of technology. Its always draws from the darkest, most gruesome parts of religious history because that's what sells. Not many kids want to play being a practicing priest who is kind to everyone he meets.

 

[maturin]

Most of those games were made in the U.S, where we were attacked by religious zealots. So I think this is more of a product of the times than of video games themselves.

If you read the last bit of the article, the study specifically highlight Templar and Crusader analogues, which are practically omnipresent. Those aren't Al Qaeda-inspired.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

Here, let me sum up The Escapists reaction to this, "Oh indeed, how quaint."

 

[chadachada123]

And this is a problem because...?

No, seriously, that's my reaction. I can't be arsed to say that this is worrisome. If an organized religion came into control of something like a parasitic mind-controlling virus (Resident Evil 4) or some super space weapon stuff (Dead Space), I'd bet my soul that control would fall into the hands of the fanatics that would seek to destroy/control everything.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Who is the violent religious sect in Mass Effect 2???

Also, the Protoss in Starcraft would be another good example.

Who is the violent religious sect in Mass Effect 2???

The closest I can think of is Samara. "Find peace in the embrace of the Goddess *bust head open like a melon*"

That's about all I can think of. Oh, and "Dead Gods still dream" (something like that).

Actually playing through Mass Effect 2 right now. Just got to the Legion part and he refers to Seren/Soverign's Geth as Heretics. So the Geth are a religious entity.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Right, and Eve being made from Adam's rib and just two breeding pairs repopulating the earth in a few thousands years without being crippled by inbreeding. Not to mention how this DOES contradict both science and the "theistic evolution" as mentioned.

So the Bible stating that Adam and Eve are THE FIRST humans created and doesn't mention God making any other humans automatically means that God didn't make any other humans after Adam and Eve?
You have to take Religion with a HUGE bag of salt 90% of the time but you also have to put some thought behind what some things in the bible state.

 

[Mugen]

A University of Missouri doctoral student says many modern videogames "problematize" organized religion by equating it with violence in their stories.

Nevermind the centuries of warfare, racism, intolerance, and bigotry spurred on by religious leaders. Videogames are the real problem.

LoL dude, you totally nailed it, and i love that you where the first to post after the OP.

thread closed guys, nothing to see here.

 

[chadachada123]

Ah, I see your position much better, well the theory of skepticism/atheism really comes down to two words: "Prove it." In terms of academics I don't know anyone who suggests that they know there is no God because we understand things on an atomic level (in fact saying that last part of the sentence is just plain stupid, we don't fully understand plenty of reality). Of course there's also plenty of examples of people attempting to argue on the grounds you're presenting, but beyond the argument that 'we understand all this, there's still plenty left to understand, but we have found no evidence of god(s)' it's a pretty poor defensive point.

No atheist suggests that they KNOW there is no God. This is a very annoying misconception. Any self-proclaimed atheist that claims otherwise is only being hyperbolic for effect, in the same way that you would tell someone that you "know" that Santa doesn't exist, which you certainly don't know with complete certainty.

We only suggest that, since we "understand all this, even despite there still being plenty left to understand," having no evidence of god(s) thus far, it'd be wrong to suggest their existence when we've got a billion theories of our own that explain things just fine.

Especially since any perceived "evidence" for a god could just as easily be some law of nature we haven't grasped yet...It's all semantics. Anything outside our measurable universe is, by practical definition, outside of reality and thus illogical to speculate on. Everything in our own universe has, essentially without exception, followed pretty damn specific rules.

If someone tried to seriously argue that we live in the Matrix, and, when asked to provide evidence, only provides something like, "well you don't know everything yet! You can't say that we won't find evidence one day, ergo I have an equal logical footing as you!" you would be right to think him illogical.

 

[Nikolaz72]

"Joyful is the one who takes, and dashes his children against the stone."

Im so reminded of the guy who wanted to raise his kid as a wizard for 11 years only to have him run into a brick wall. http://i.imgur.com/y0k9N.jpg

 

[crimsonshrouds]

and here come the non theist calling religion violent despite its just people who are violent and religion (well the big ones) are totally against it.

hell political ideology such as nazism and communism has cause more deaths in 100 years than religion in the past 1500 years.

how ever...yes they have a point in this study, but i think its only coincidence.

Funny you should mention the Nazis, since the Nazis' "political" agenda was largely driven by Hitler's religious beliefs. Not even really just Hitler.

I'd like to see your sources and numbers on that, though. Could be an interesting read.

yeeeaaahhhhh....no....hitler wasnt a christian. he even spoke against it.

Also, these were written by an atheist.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/blogs/godless-gross/the-body-count-issue-20100827-13v8a.html

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-san-diego/atheist-vs-christian-whose-killed-more-and-who-will-survive


Also, the fact that atheist regimes have killed so many in just 112 years when you have to go back hundreds upon hundreds of years to get those numbers on the religious side is worth acknowledging.

And if you say "Well they didn't do it in the NAME of atheism!" well true, but at the same time....they still fucking did it. Most religions teach AGAINST murder and killing, however just like these regimes, people will use what ever to achieve their selfish goals. Humans are just prone to violence and corruption.

The problem with grouping atheist is saying they lack a belief in a god. In other words im being compared to ruthless murders because i lack a belief in a god. So because a lot of people in the world, christians included don't worship zeus and im pretty certain stalin didn't worship zeus. So then all the nonbelievers of zeus are responsible for more murders than the worshippers of zeus. You see the problem with these articles?

When people say christians are responsible for alot of atrocities through out history. We are pointing out a group of people who follow the same book and deity have had people within said group commit murders and genocide thinking their deity gave them permission to do so.

You see the difference here?

People who claim to follow the bible are just opening themselves to be compared to others who follow said text. Two guys join the kkk so they can run around dressed like ghosts are going to be compared to the group they joined whether or not they have all the same ideals.

Me and a lot of other atheists don't follow texts or any guidelines and thus have no way to be grouped like you christians.

 

[GeeksUtopia]

Religion for centuries has been violent. When the catholic church had a major power in the world, people were tortured for having different views. Crusades and witch hunts were all the rave back then. Even now people are persecuted because of religious differences across the world. Though if people would just stick to their teachings through just about any religion and not be nick picky about their religious teachings, then there wouldn't be as much violence. Do video games "Problematize" religion, I won't get into it that much, but they do bring to light of what happens when those who are ignorant of religion try to push it.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Wow, well that's oversimplified to hell. It's not just "one religion causes a bunch of problems", while it does, in most games it's good side is also shown off, and it's never black or white "religion is violent" or "religion is peaceful"