Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent

[irishda]

Religion's like anything else, it's not inherently bad, and believing that going to church is going to turn you into a fanatic makes you just as gullible as the zealots that you're condemning. Religion does just as much good as it does evil. For every priest that assaults an altar boy, there's one that provides a lot of counseling and help to the poor and needy.

 

[Treblaine]

Right, and Eve being made from Adam's rib and just two breeding pairs repopulating the earth in a few thousands years without being crippled by inbreeding. Not to mention how this DOES contradict both science and the "theistic evolution" as mentioned.

So the Bible stating that Adam and Eve are THE FIRST humans created and doesn't mention God making any other humans automatically means that God didn't make any other humans after Adam and Eve?
You have to take Religion with a HUGE bag of salt 90% of the time but you also have to put some thought behind what some things in the bible state.

The bible said mankind were created from Adam and Eve. That in itself is nonsense and contradicts the archaeological record of ape-like creatures gradual evolution into modern humans.

Sorry, grain of salt or bag of salt, there is no excusing how the Bible is full of false claims, as has been proven by science. The bible's word has about as much weight as Aesop's Fables and other stories.

We can get into the whole evolution debate if you would like but we do not have proof that they evolved into humans we know that they evolved into human like not necessarily human itself though since we did not observe it and that is the only definitive proof there is.

That's nonsense, we HAVE seen this evolution in the fossil record, accurately dated for each of the remains and confirmed further with study of genetics.

These "human like, not necessarily human" used complex tools, wore clothes, communicated verbally, cared for their sick and made art and jewellery. We know this from the archaeological record, how those with poorly injuries meant they were nursed to stay alive even though they didn't recover.

You're just being arbitrary to say these are not THE missing link of human evolution from primates. And just to clear up any confusion, we didn't evolve from chimpanzees, they are our "cousins". We have a common ancestor, they chimps and gorillas went one way, the path of living in the forests of fruit and forage. The path that would lead to humanity had far more evolutionary pressures that lead to us standing tool-users.

 

[AnarchistFish]

I will say the central tenement of Christianity (at least) is based on violence; that is you don't follow their dogma then you will be horribly tortured for all eternity.

Not really... The absolute most important teaching in Christianity is showing compassion to everyone. I don't actually know if it's ever been specifically taught that you must be a Christian to go to "heaven". Many believe you do, but many believe the oppositen't. Maybe all Christianity and other religions require is just that people follow those morals throughout their lives, rather than worship idols, even if you don't believe in a god. That's what I understand from religious teachings and I think it's in that way that religion has lost its way and violence has stemmed from it as a result.
Whether there's a god or not is another question.

 

[Treblaine]

I will say the central tenement of Christianity (at least) is based on violence; that is you don't follow their dogma then you will be horribly tortured for all eternity.

Not really... The absolute most important teaching in Christianity is showing compassion to everyone. I don't actually know if it's ever been specifically taught that you must be a Christian to go to "heaven". Many believe you do, but many believe the oppositen't. Maybe all Christianity and other religions require is just that people follow those morals throughout their lives, rather than worship idols, even if you don't believe in a god. That's what I understand from religious teachings and I think it's in that way that religion has lost its way and violence has stemmed from it as a result.
Whether there's a god or not is another question.

In my experience in dealing with Christians who insist creationism rather than evolution should be taught in schools (and all aspects of the bible being literally and infallibly true). Over and over again they fall back on the hollow threat hell that they use to argue their point, attempting the fallacy of Pascal's Wager not realising (or not caring) that it is effectively blackmail. And ineffective blackmail as every other religion would make the same wager it's a matter of believing in WHICH god!?!

"Maybe all Christianity and other religions require is just that people follow those morals throughout their lives, rather than worship idols, even if you don't believe in a god."

OK, so what is the point in religion? We are SUPPOSED to be good anyway! If that's the case, why can't we just be good and God will take over when we die. Do NOT try to tell me morality comes from religion. Of all the false claims of origins of the universe, religion does not have the moral high ground of telling people what is right and wrong.

Oh of course, because religions have some rather twisted forms of morality they want to enforce. Such as Leviticus declaring that homosexuality is an abomination that must be stoned to death and their fate in afterlife is to be tortured forever in hell. Nice morality there. It is somewhat open to interpretation but none the less this allows horrific homophobic persecution. Christianity IN PRACTICE you have not seen compassion here, you have seen oppression.

And of course the bible is very explicit, it doesn't matter how good you are, you MUST believe in this one god AND "His Word" or you do not stand a chance, this has been made clear to me by angry creationists and I cannot dispute that is what their holy scripture does make this threat. The ultimate threat of violence. But a hollow one.

And the real corker, the way these rules are laid out, a believing priest can rape little children and then if he says a load of magic words of "repent" then he can still get into "heaven". But all the good and charitable Hindus and other polytheists, bible is explicit that they will suffer an infinitely horrific fate.

 

[Nu-Hir]

Anyway, the guy's absolutely right, though I don't really think it warranted an entire study. Everyone with functioning eyes and ears already came to this conclusion. Most game developers know that the majority of their fanbase dispises religion in every possible way, so why come up with some sort of new and interesting evil corp. when you can just say "they're religious" and be guaranteed the fans will hate them on the basis of their ideology alone?

I don't think that the majority of gamers (since you didn't define which fanbase) despises religion. I would probably put it at a minority, or 40/60 at most (60 being the religious side). I might be one of the few of the non-spiritual type, but I do not despise religion, in fact I think it helps some people become better people.

But no, this guy isn't right. Religion isn't always painted out to be the violent bad guy, there are games where religion is painted rather nicely,

Spoiler: Xenosaga Ep III

choas and KOS-MOS essentially kick-started the whole Christianity thing

He took a very small sample of recent games and used those to paint the picture that he wanted. As a Journalism student, he knew the smallest sample with the largest support of his opinion was the way to go. He hand picked those games for a reason because their plots revolved around the idea he wanted to get across, that's why he didn't look further back for games that would go against his thesis.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Sorry to say, but for anyone to seriously suggest that organized religion is completely innocent of any involvement in any kind of real-world violence... is either a demonstration of historical ignorance or intellectual dishonesty.

 

[ElPatron]

Umm... Does anyone actually expect a doctoral student to make an original finding that is novel, controversial and well defended?

No.

While atheism itself has some rather vicious purges to its name

I'm genuinely interested, give me examples of atrocities done in the name of an absence of belief.

Before Hitler got all "Valhalla" in his regime a lot of his propaganda and party platform was based on the science of Eugenics. The Jew was "scientifically" an inferior race. Whether or not you think Hitler misrepresented Eugenics is not the issue, it's a very concrete example of science being used to instigate one of the most horrible events of human history.

So science equals absence of belief? I don't know about that.

Also, we have know about racism and selective reproduction before science, and way before we discovered genetics. No scientific development was needed for the belief that Jews were inferior.

 

[Vhite]

A University of Missouri doctoral student says many modern videogames "problematize" organized religion by equating it with violence in their stories.

Nevermind the centuries of warfare, racism, intolerance, and bigotry spurred on by religious leaders. Videogames are the real problem.

There weren't videogames back then to do it for them.

 

[Aerosteam]

Great, another person labeling video games as evil. When will they learn?

If this guy is mentioning that religion is tied to violence in video games, might as well mention that's the case in real life. I don't think I need to mention what has happened (or is happening) to certain countries purely because of religion.

Who is the violent religious sect in Mass Effect 2???

The closest I can think of is Samara. "Find peace in the embrace of the Goddess *bust head open like a melon*"

That's about all I can think of. Oh, and "Dead Gods still dream" (something like that).

I'm thinking of the Geth and the Reapers.

The Geth worship the Reapers, Reapers want to kill everyone. Apparently that's bad enough to get called out on problematizing religion as violent. Although that's more to do with the first Mass Effect, meh.

 

[kasperbbs]

History lessons showed me that religion can be evil before anything else..

 

[Frozenfeet2]

what about the games that don't associate it with violence? Off the top of my head I can think of being blessed in skyrim which heals diseases.
And anyway, stop blaming videogames when other meadia do it to equal extent.

 

[Vhite]

Also whats always gives me a chuckle is how people think that evertyhing that was done in name of religion was because of religion. Like when vikings accepted christianity and kept pillaging, yeah thats because bible says so, not because they just wanted to make strong allies just so they can keep raiding other lands.

 

[Jinxey]

Sigh. I promised myself I wouldn't get involved, but then somebody had to go and say something retarded.

I see that we will be fighting like gentlemen *discards monocle*

You seem very adamant in your understanding of the student's "point," yet also make it abundantly clear that you did not actually read the study. At most you read the title of this post and the first few sentences. The student isn't trying to make any sort of "point," they're just observing a trend that happens to make for a good narrative.

This is actually correct. I didn't read the students paper but I read the Escapist article in whole. I trust the Escapist to skew a bit to the left but to be truthful and diligent in their representation of gaming news.

I believe I may have misrepresented myself a little. I shouldn't have implied that the student is trying to prove what I believe, but someone else is looking into what I do view as a problem. It's been a grudge of mine in the industry for a couple years now so it was quite vindicating to see someone start the process.

I was excited, I shall try to suppress my joy in the future

so, you claim it hard to find a game with religion in it where religion isn't inherently evil. I counter with two incredibly obvious examples you have apparently overlooked: Assassin's Creed 2 and Skyrim. "But wait!" I hear you cry. "In Assassin's Creed, the Templars are the bad guys!" To which I reply...yeah. Welcome to the point. The Templars are the bad guys. The Templars are not, however, all of religion. They're simply one very vocal group. In fact, Ezio himself is portrayed as a man of faith, and he's a heroic badass. As for Skyrim...does this really need explanation? Seriously. The closest thing to "problematization" of religion in that game is the portrayal of crazy cults as...well, crazy cults. You'll note that almost all of the cast of good guys believe in the divines, and many are open followers.

While I misrepresented myself earlier, I believe it is you who misunderstood my main problem. The problem isn't that religion is being portrayed as bad but that it is the ONLY way it is being presented.

To talk to your specific examples. I disagree with your perspective on both Ezio and religion in Skyrim. In my opinion Ezio removes himself from the church. Furthermore if you read all the database entries in AC2 (I did because it irked me) they make a pointed effort to implicate that the entire church, up to the papal office, are corrupt/amoral not just the Templars. This gives the whole game a perspective that a righteous man must either leave or fight the church to be righteous.

Furthermore in Skyrim the Empire/Church sells out its beliefs to the Thallmore to save its life. The Thallmore in turn use this religion as a motive to enact genocide in Skyrim. I don't see that as a positive example of religion (i.e. as a motive to genocide).

Welcome to logic. I know, it must feel weird to have an atheist provide a logical argument in a discussion about religion and gaming, but hey. I'm a weird guy.

St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augastine say hi.

 

[Jinxey]

So science equals absence of belief? I don't know about that.

Also, we have know about racism and selective reproduction before science, and way before we discovered genetics. No scientific development was needed for the belief that Jews were inferior.

Not when said like that it doesn't. "Science/Logic/Reason" are the reasons given when someone says they don't believe in God. I haven't heard of any other. You may disavow God because you think He is cruel/unfair but that's completely different then believing He doesn't exist.

And the act of reasoning and logic falls under the "science" branch right? inductive reasoning is part of forming the hypothesis that is to be tested. I remember from history class that the Nazi regime dissected blacks and Jews to prove their hypothesis that Jews were a inferior race. So step 1.) use reasoning to form a hypothesis 2.) experiment...scientific method in action.

 

[Evilpigeon]

Also whats always gives me a chuckle is how people think that evertyhing that was done in name of religion was because of religion. Like when vikings accepted christianity and kept pillaging, yeah thats because bible says so, not because they just wanted to make strong allies just so they can keep raiding other lands.

The original action doesn't have to be done in the name of religion, religion simply has to be leveraged to accomplish said atrocity: It's certain that many crusaders were in it for the money, however such a massive expedition to go kill muslims would not have occured without the religious framework provided by Christianity, even if none of the crusaders had any strong religious belief the Crusades could only have happened due to the Us vs Them grouping because of religious differences.

Your example with the vikings totally misses the point, people are not claiming that viking raiding done in the name of God because they didn't do it in the name of God.

But you're correct that not everything done in the name of religion is necessarily due to religion however, Christianity and most other major religions form some of the largest collective groups of people on earth and they give a lot of political power and leverage to people who are horrendously underqualified, even by the standards of politicians.

Pretty much every religion is founded on beliefs that illogical or demonstrably wrong, they also like to wield of faith - blind belief in something for no reason.

So we have huge groups of people who to various extents blindly follow the words of idiots with more power than they can handle. Viewed on the large scale, these groups cause huge problems in the modern world - Think about how screwed up the law is in many Islamic countries, how the pope manages to hinder the progress of science and medicine in due to some 2000 year old book of fairy stories that should have absolutely no relevance on technology that its writers couldn't even imagine.

I don't have to believe that everything in the name of religion was by religion there's enough stuff that's indisputably caused by people's religious beliefs to go on for long while.

Not when said like that it doesn't. "Science/Logic/Reason" are the reasons given when someone says they don't believe in God. I haven't heard of any other. You may disavow God because you think He is cruel/unfair but that's completely different then believing He doesn't exist.

And the act of reasoning and logic falls under the "science" branch right? inductive reasoning is part of forming the hypothesis that is to be tested. I remember from history class that the Nazi regime dissected blacks and Jews to prove their hypothesis that Jews were a inferior race. So step 1.) use reasoning to form a hypothesis 2.) experiment...scientific method in action.

Actually the roots of german anti semitism go back to medieval Christianity (look up Pogroms in germany) There was no reasoning involved, it's false logic based upon irrational belief and thus nothing at all to do with actual science.

 

[ElPatron]

Not when said like that it doesn't. "Science/Logic/Reason" are the reasons given when someone says they don't believe in God. I haven't heard of any other. You may disavow God because you think He is cruel/unfair but that's completely different then believing He doesn't exist.

Actually I have heard that people are simply atheists. No reason. Just like there is no reason to believe.

And the act of reasoning and logic falls under the "science" branch right? inductive reasoning is part of forming the hypothesis that is to be tested. I remember from history class that the Nazi regime dissected blacks and Jews to prove their hypothesis that Jews were a inferior race. So step 1.) use reasoning to form a hypothesis 2.) experiment...scientific method in action.

We dissected bodies before we developed what we consider scientific knowledge. Many times we were wrong, we thought the heart was our "brain".

Also, if you are telling a lie, it's not the scientific method. You don't need one to make people believe in you.

 

[AnarchistFish]

In my experience in dealing with Christians who insist creationism rather than evolution should be taught in schools (and all aspects of the bible being literally and infallibly true). Over and over again they fall back on the hollow threat hell that they use to argue their point, attempting the fallacy of Pascal's Wager not realising (or not caring) that it is effectively blackmail. And ineffective blackmail as every other religion would make the same wager it's a matter of believing in WHICH god!?!

Never met a Christian who's even openly believed in creationism, let alone push it that far. Things are probably different here though. And yeah, Pascal's Wager is pretty ridiculous, although I see people saying you can't be certain there isn't a god (which isn't really the same thing) and people jump on it accusing them of using Pascal's Wager.

OK, so what is the point in religion? We are SUPPOSED to be good anyway! If that's the case, why can't we just be good and God will take over when we die. Do NOT try to tell me morality comes from religion.

When did I say morality comes from religion? Of course it doesn't, but I don't think you can deny that it helps and directs many people.

Of all the false claims of origins of the universe, religion does not have the moral high ground of telling people what is right and wrong.

Don't really understand exactly what you mean by this.

Oh of course, because religions have some rather twisted forms of morality they want to enforce. Such as Leviticus declaring that homosexuality is an abomination that must be stoned to death and their fate in afterlife is to be tortured forever in hell. Nice morality there. It is somewhat open to interpretation but none the less this allows horrific homophobic persecution. Christianity IN PRACTICE you have not seen compassion here, you have seen oppression.

And of course the bible is very explicit, it doesn't matter how good you are, you MUST believe in this one god AND "His Word" or you do not stand a chance, this has been made clear to me by angry creationists and I cannot dispute that is what their holy scripture does make this threat. The ultimate threat of violence. But a hollow one.

And the real corker, the way these rules are laid out, a believing priest can rape little children and then if he says a load of magic words of "repent" then he can still get into "heaven". But all the good and charitable Hindus and other polytheists, bible is explicit that they will suffer an infinitely horrific fate.

I don't really think the bible is a good representation of Christianity. It's pretty much just a collection of books written by different people many years after Jesus supposedly existed. It repeats itself, contradicts itself, probably misses things out, probably is extremely inaccurate even if Christianity as a concept is true and most importantly, it includes so many opinions from the writers themselves, of course it's mostly a load of crap. Leviticus is the worst. And there're all the disparities between religions. Religious documents are dangerous and I think people rely too much on them. Would a god who's main teaching is compassion actually believe in stoning homosexuals? Or in forcing people into believing in something they have no evidence for? It's with those misunderstandings that religion is then misused. I guess that's the difference between organised religion and personal spirituality. People who follow the bible literally are morons. But you shouldn't forget that people do use religion for good as well.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Farther than stars]

I must say, I've always felt that video games lightly demonize organized religion by usually making it seem cultist and run by maniacs. Fallout is a good example of that. But then I figure a large part of the video-game-developing community is atheïst, so that they might be looking at religion less personally (i.e. a religious person might not tie religion to violence and inquisition so easily). It's just a theory though.

 

[Woodsey]

snip

"Looking into the archeological and historical evidence for the resurrection, the least preposterous explanation is that Jesus died and was resurrected three days later."

The least preposterous explanation is that he wasn't resurrected.

Oh dear, look at that; A news item about a guy who somewhat stands up for religion.

Duh, I wonder how well this will go over with the community?

Anyway, the guy's absolutely right, though I don't really think it warranted an entire study. Everyone with functioning eyes and ears already came to this conclusion. Most game developers know that the majority of their fanbase dispises religion in every possible way, so why come up with some sort of new and interesting evil corp. when you can just say "they're religious" and be guaranteed the fans will hate them on the basis of their ideology alone?

Preaching to the choir, ey Escapist!

A quick look over the games he looked at (that I've played):

Assassin's Creed: Number 1 is set during the crusades. Number 2 and Brotherhood revolve around a Pope who was, to put it mildly, a bit of a ****. So yeah, real mean and false of them to, y'know, take actual historical instances.

(As for the wider plot of the series, it depends on your interpretation somewhat as to how critical they are of religion, although the question they pose is essentially, 'what is a god?'.)

For Oblivion, all of the gods that you encounter live in The Elder Scrolls' equivalent of Hell, all of the ones you don't (at least, from what I remember you don't) grant blessings and the priests and whatnot are all such wonderful people and whatever else.

And it seems no one knows what the Mass Effect example is this, so I'll guess and say perhaps the problem is with Ash being religious and a teeny-tiny-massive bit racist. Although, Mass Effect 2 quite obviously works as a Christ allegory. So... yeah.

So, that's three of his examples where religion isn't demonised, can't say I'm really sure what yours are. Looking over most of the games in my Steam library, none of them have a religious element.

I suppose the Chantry in Dragon Age are twats to the Mages (ironically).

Although my concluding line would be along the lines of "stop whining". Believe what you want, but if you believe something which is, by all accounts, completely ridiculous, then other people have every right to scrutinise and take issue with it.

 

[lacktheknack]

To be fair, video games tie EVERYTHING to violence. Religion is an easy target, but video games have depicted most urban cities as violent crime ridden areas, most archaeological digs are filled with hyper-violent undead/spirits/etc, and so on.