Study Says Videogames "Problematize" Religion as Violent

[mightybozz]

The sample size is statistically irrelevant. He needed to look at far more games to draw proper conclusions.

However, I think anecdotally he is probably correct. The first reason is probably that videogames had and indeed largely still do have a core nerd audience. This audience tends to be better educated, and this correlates with scepticism about religious dogma. Note that I do not deny that there will be nerds with beliefs. Just that I doubt that there are many nerds who also faithfully refuse to eat meat on Fridays.

A second reason (and I would be grateful if someone could finish this thought for me ) would be to do with the essence of narratives in videogames, the player as a force etc.

A third reason: if the player character was particularly religious, you risk alienating some of your audience. It is harder to distance oneself from a main character whose beliefs and actions you disagree with than it is in an non-interactive medium. So to keep the player engaged, the character can't have too contraversial views.

Finally I would add that religion ISN'T always problematic. Many RPGs treat temples as places of healing and to pick up healing magic and stat bonuses through communion with the gods, as they largely were in Oblivion. That's superficial, but it doesn't say religion is destructive.

 

[Knight Templar]

Oblivion, really?
I don't see that one supporting his case all that strongly.

 

[RJ 17]

Could someone please explain how Mass Effect uses religion as a source of violence? Does the guy think that robots genetically altering an entire race and turning them into slaves is the foundation of a religion? Really can't say I see the connection there at all. The Reapers aren't religious figures...they're alien robot overlords that want to destroy everything, not be worshipped. I mean the only religious things I can think of in the ME series is Ashley stating that she's a Christian and Thane explaining why he prays to various gods before starting a mission.

Oblivion is kinda on the fence...technically you're not up against an entire religion, you're up against a creepy cult complete with matching robes, an insane leader, and a hideout inside a cave.

I'll give him Assassin's Creed and Castlevania (though I never played the latter, most Castlevania games haven't so much been a struggle against a religion as they've been against a struggle against a being that denies religion), never played FF13 so I can't say anything about it, but at least to my knowledge the only FFs that centered around the world's religion was 10 and Tactics.

I dunno, I'm not saying there aren't examples of what this MU student brought up, I just don't think it's nearly as widespread as he seems to be trying to make it.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Who put all these egg shells on the thread floor. I'm afraid to say anything because someone might get offended.

I will say, games are just entertainment, maybe it's best to not read into it too much.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Some religious, right-wing fundamentalists say games are violent.
Some games say religion is violent.

It balances out i guess.

Total win right here, so true.

 

[Porygon-2000]

Funny how everyone is saying that religion is responsible for most of the violence in the World (This is true), but weren't Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot (to name a few) all atheists? Weren't they all responsible for millions of deaths? It's not just that they were atheists, but they all followed the doctrine of communism, which has significant elements of atheism in it.

Did World War 1 or 2 (Which both killed far, far more than all religious wars combined) have anything to do with religion?

Ah well, don't mind me. I've probably stirred up a shitstorm anyway.

I think the distinction is that people have killed in the name of Christianity. No one has killed in the name of atheism.

Like, there are atheists who have killed, but it wasn't because of their atheism. It was usually an extreme devotion to something else, like say communism.

True, it is probably the case that Stalin, Pol Pot etc. did not, in fact, shout "For Atheism!" whilst doing what they did best, but the intent was there. In the case of Stalin, he actively tried to eradicate the Russian orthodoxy during his purges (except during the war, but that's another thing). Pol Pot, again, tried to destroy Cambodia's culture, its traditions and its religion.
No (sane) person would argue that it wasn't for any other reason, but these people pretty much tried to kill their gods through their followers.

People have killed, essenially, for Atheism. And getting bogged down in how overt the declaration is, or over semantics involving literal definitions, is not the best way to have an intelligent discussion on the matter.
(This last bit isn't actually meant for you, but to everyone else in the forum getting into "No True Scotsman" mode)

 

[Blind Sight]

Ah, I see your position much better, well the theory of skepticism/atheism really comes down to two words: "Prove it." In terms of academics I don't know anyone who suggests that they know there is no God because we understand things on an atomic level (in fact saying that last part of the sentence is just plain stupid, we don't fully understand plenty of reality). Of course there's also plenty of examples of people attempting to argue on the grounds you're presenting, but beyond the argument that 'we understand all this, there's still plenty left to understand, but we have found no evidence of god(s)' it's a pretty poor defensive point.

No atheist suggests that they KNOW there is no God. This is a very annoying misconception. Any self-proclaimed atheist that claims otherwise is only being hyperbolic for effect, in the same way that you would tell someone that you "know" that Santa doesn't exist, which you certainly don't know with complete certainty.

We only suggest that, since we "understand all this, even despite there still being plenty left to understand," having no evidence of god(s) thus far, it'd be wrong to suggest their existence when we've got a billion theories of our own that explain things just fine.

Especially since any perceived "evidence" for a god could just as easily be some law of nature we haven't grasped yet...It's all semantics. Anything outside our measurable universe is, by practical definition, outside of reality and thus illogical to speculate on. Everything in our own universe has, essentially without exception, followed pretty damn specific rules.

If someone tried to seriously argue that we live in the Matrix, and, when asked to provide evidence, only provides something like, "well you don't know everything yet! You can't say that we won't find evidence one day, ergo I have an equal logical footing as you!" you would be right to think him illogical.

Yeah my answer was a bit poorly worded, but you're right in the sense that it comes down to the lack of evidence suggesting that there is no god(s). Like I mentioned before, atheists are the negative of the burden of proof analysis, so it's not possible to prove '100% accurately' that there is no god, but the lack of evidence suggests that outcome. The problem is that some theists 'move the goal posts' to an extent as in your example and attempt to explain god(s) in horribly abstract, supernatural or metaphysical terms which really has no evidence for either side, it all just becomes blind theorizing.

 

[Simonoly]

It's as if video games represent religion in the exact same ways as films, books, television etc etc. Religion or should I say religious people in many many circumstances do either participate in or promote violence in the name of their religion. And video games should be portraying this as much as possible.

 

[Darkmantle]

Funny how everyone is saying that religion is responsible for most of the violence in the World (This is true), but weren't Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot (to name a few) all atheists? Weren't they all responsible for millions of deaths? It's not just that they were atheists, but they all followed the doctrine of communism, which has significant elements of atheism in it.

Did World War 1 or 2 (Which both killed far, far more than all religious wars combined) have anything to do with religion?

Ah well, don't mind me. I've probably stirred up a shitstorm anyway.

I think the distinction is that people have killed in the name of Christianity. No one has killed in the name of atheism.

Like, there are atheists who have killed, but it wasn't because of their atheism. It was usually an extreme devotion to something else, like say communism.

True, it is probably the case that Stalin, Pol Pot etc. did not, in fact, shout "For Atheism!" whilst doing what they did best, but the intent was there. In the case of Stalin, he actively tried to eradicate the Russian orthodoxy during his purges (except during the war, but that's another thing). Pol Pot, again, tried to destroy Cambodia's culture, its traditions and its religion.
No (sane) person would argue that it wasn't for any other reason, but these people pretty much tried to kill their gods through their followers.

People have killed, essenially, for Atheism. And getting bogged down in how overt the declaration is, or over semantics involving literal definitions, is not the best way to have an intelligent discussion on the matter.
(This last bit isn't actually meant for you, but to everyone else in the forum getting into "No True Scotsman" mode)

The intent was not there*! Intent implies that while they didn't say "for atheism!" they meant or thought "for atheism!" and they didn't. Stalin actively tried to kill the orthodoxy because communist thought at the time said that religion was part of the evil capitalist scheme and only served to keep the people down. They did it "for Communism!".

By your logic, Allan Legere is a raging atheist because he killed a priest. the failing of course comes when you realize he didn't do it based on atheism, he did it for something else. Not every decision is related to religion or atheism in that way.

 

[Abedeus]

He forgot SMT2 where you try to kill God. He'd have a field day with it.

Or Devil Survivor on NDS where you can give God the middle finger and rescue humanity with your own power, not siding with either him or the evil forces.

 

[Magnalian]

Nice to see it's the other way around for a change

Also, he missed a pretty big one: the Halo series. I mean the whole reason the Covenant are fighting the humans and want to light the Halo rings is that they believe that's the way to heaven.

 

[Falseprophet]

I'm as critical of religion as any freethinker, but this has little to do with views on religion and everything to do with games themselves. Perrault said it himself in the article: "I believe they are only using religion to create stimulating plot points in their story lines. If you look at videogames across the board, most of them involve violence in some fashion because violence is conflict and conflict is exciting," he continued. "Religion appears to get tied in with violence because that makes for a compelling narrative." (emphasis mine)

I think it's safe to say the overwhelming majority of games that aren't sports, puzzle or edutainment make combat or violence very central to their gameplay or story. So of course religion is often portrayed as violent. So are corporations, various ethnic groups, popular movements across the political spectrum, governments of all stripes, the wealthy, the poor, the mentally balanced and mentally ill, the educated, the ignorant, the successful, the unemployed, anthropomorphic turtles, robots, wild animals, and so on. It'd be easier listing groups, organizations and institutions that haven't been portrayed as violent at some point in video games.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Right, and Eve being made from Adam's rib and just two breeding pairs repopulating the earth in a few thousands years without being crippled by inbreeding. Not to mention how this DOES contradict both science and the "theistic evolution" as mentioned.

So the Bible stating that Adam and Eve are THE FIRST humans created and doesn't mention God making any other humans automatically means that God didn't make any other humans after Adam and Eve?
You have to take Religion with a HUGE bag of salt 90% of the time but you also have to put some thought behind what some things in the bible state.

The bible said mankind were created from Adam and Eve. That in itself is nonsense and contradicts the archaeological record of ape-like creatures gradual evolution into modern humans.

Sorry, grain of salt or bag of salt, there is no excusing how the Bible is full of false claims, as has been proven by science. The bible's word has about as much weight as Aesop's Fables and other stories.

We can get into the whole evolution debate if you would like but we do not have proof that they evolved into humans we know that they evolved into human like not necessarily human itself though since we did not observe it and that is the only definitive proof there is.

 

[Krion_Vark]

Could someone please explain how Mass Effect uses religion as a source of violence? Does the guy think that robots genetically altering an entire race and turning them into slaves is the foundation of a religion? Really can't say I see the connection there at all. The Reapers aren't religious figures...they're alien robot overlords that want to destroy everything, not be worshipped. I mean the only religious things I can think of in the ME series is Ashley stating that she's a Christian and Thane explaining why he prays to various gods before starting a mission.

Oblivion is kinda on the fence...technically you're not up against an entire religion, you're up against a creepy cult complete with matching robes, an insane leader, and a hideout inside a cave.

I'll give him Assassin's Creed and Castlevania (though I never played the latter, most Castlevania games haven't so much been a struggle against a religion as they've been against a struggle against a being that denies religion), never played FF13 so I can't say anything about it, but at least to my knowledge the only FFs that centered around the world's religion was 10 and Tactics.

I dunno, I'm not saying there aren't examples of what this MU student brought up, I just don't think it's nearly as widespread as he seems to be trying to make it.

Quarians and the Geth. Well mostly the Geth. They pretty much make Shepard out to be Jesus since he killed a Reaper who some of them revere as God's.

 

[BodomBeachChild]

Religion is a tool used to justifiy violent. It has been since man got religion. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school all my life, and we never learned about the Crusades but we learned a shit load about how other religions do similar acts.

I hold a lot of the moral beliefs from religions around the world, but I'd never endorse a religion. People should be free to believe what they want as long as it leads to a morally good life.

 

[Urh]

I'm going to say what's probably already been said. It's not just video games that associates religion with violence. History pretty much does too, except that history does a waaaaaaaaaay better job of it.

 

[BrainWalker]

Yeah... it's already been said, but really, history "problematizes" religion as violent.

 

[lord.jeff]

I have to agree with this, I know religion has been used to start wars but today in America Christian organizations are the biggest fund raisers for very noble causes. I don't think we need to get rid of the violent zealot archetype in games I just think it should be easier to point out positive religious role models with in the medium.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Well that's a pretty meaningless observation really.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

The Heretics (though I do see that's a religious term, in the case of the Geth it's not implying a religion, simply that they go against the "norm" of Geth society) don't worship the Reapers as gods, they simply see them as the pinnacle of synthetic evolution and as such want to emulate them.

I just don't see it. I'm pretty sure that Mass Effect is much more about politics than it is about religious violence.