Super Mario Galaxy 2

[tlozoot]

Castle Crashers for a first time gamer? I think LBP would be better, yes, but Castle Crashers has a good art-direction, co-op, decent difficulty curve and use of (kinda) the three dimentions.

 

[Dexiro]

okay, yahtzee, i've never disagreed with you more than i do now. to say that each new mario game has had significant game play improvements/changes is making you sound like another fanboy trying to reassure himself that he's not exactly just that, a crazed, mouth-foaming fan boy.

Who cares if each sequel isn't the next big thing regarding originality. Every one is just as fun, if not more. They don't change the game completely they just add enough to keep it fresh.

You might not like them but you can't ***** at other people for not having the same opinion as you. Fans have enough to justify liking Mario.

I know there's a bit of annoyance over Galaxy 2. That didn't add too many new mechanics, rather just new levels and new ways to use existing mechanics. I can see why some people wouldn't like it after playing Galaxy 1 i guess. Apparently it did actually start of as just a level pack type thing but they ended up with enough ideas for a full game

I really liked it but i don't think i could play Galaxy 1 and 2 back to back D:

 

[YonderTunic]

Hm, judging by his few Mario game reviews I figured Yahtzee would be one the people crying that mario games never change anything and are made for casuals because the idea is a little childish. Glad to see he's at least got intelligent thought behind his hate.

 

[Jonsbax]

okay, yahtzee, i've never disagreed with you more than i do now. to say that each new mario game has had significant game play improvements/changes is making you sound like another fanboy trying to reassure himself that he's not exactly just that, a crazed, mouth-foaming fan boy. and mario galaxy 2 seems no different to me. the only thing that has significantly improved over the years is the graphics. other than that, we've had one or two things added to each iteration. and this is the exact reason i've grown so bored to tears of them. well, i never did like the 3d ones much anyway (the single handed BIGGEST change to mario, ever, but since then, it's just been that one or two things changing).

Super Mario Bros. -> Super Mario Bros. 3
+Significantly greater level variety and design.
+Different boss battles instead of repeating the same one.
+Map screen.
+Crapload of new costumes, enemies, obstacles etc.

Super Mario Bros. 3 -> Super Mario World
+Somewhat better level variety and design, all the secret routes a definite plus.
+Yoshi
+Again, crapload of new enemies and obstacles.
+Improved map screen with secret routes and levels.
-To be fair, less power-ups.

Not going to go any further, but... Well, have you seen the Dead Space 2 -trailers (do a double check since you might've thought they were old Dead Space -trailers)? Ever compared Uncharted with Uncharted 2? Metal Gear Solid to Metal Gear Solid 2 and MGS2 to MGS3?

I think Mario wins in improving its gameplay because it actually introduced something new while today most developers usually settle with improving what they have and throwing a couple of unnecessary but mandatory new weapons. I mean, look at MGS4 for example. What the hell do I do with 5 different assault rifles and as many rocket launchers? In a sneaking game!?

 

[BehattedWanderer]

I'll counter your recommendation of Little Big Planet with a recommendation of either Lego Star Wars, or Lego Indiana Jones. Both have content that is readily familiar to most people, and the art style never gets in the way of what the game wants to do. They are fun alone, but shine their brightest with a partner in Co-op mode, which as you said was ever important to the learning experience. The games rely on other media for the finer story details, but still convey the basic plot. The mechanics are easy, a nice mix of platforming and beat-'em-up, with a little bit of puzzle solving to help the transition. While in no means are they the most in-depth games, that exact qualification makes them perfect for both the veteran gamer and newbie gamer variety.

 

[duchaked]

Incidentally, the whole reason Nintendo did that whole Doki Doki Panic re-skinning rigmarole was because they didn't think they could get away with releasing a game so similar to the first in non-Japanese countries. Where the hell did the guy who made that decision disappear to? What's changed since then to make the rest of the world as cowed and obedient as your fellow countrymen, Nintendo?

yeah...seriously!

but alas, I have long since retired the Mario (and Legend of Zelda) series in my life. old faves must die eventually...or should anyway (even if, or especially if, I grew up with them)

on second thought...maybe I'll go buy the Paper Mario for the GameCube
(still getting my butt kicked by the SNES Mario games haha...)

 

[mindsale]

Good introductory game: Bioshock on easy.

 

[MasterRahl]

I think most of everyone who has replied to this is going in the wrong direction. There were a lot of games being recommended, however, I think a 'one game fits all' attitude is completely wrong.

If you really want to start someone on games, you have to know something about them. There's so many different play styles that it would be criminal not to consider it.

For people who like puzzle games:

Puzzle Quest - I can't believe no one has mentioned this game yet. It has some of the most basic game play and it's an rpg. I'll give you maybe it's too casual that it wouldn't get them 'into' gaming, but little steps...

Portal - For sure. Did you ever listen to the commentaries? This game was designed to get people to realized what they're getting into. If it's too hard, then... well, FPS isn't the game for them for the next 20 years.

For people with control problems:

Dungeon Keeper II - One of my all time favorite games ever! (Damn you EA for canceling the franchise!) The tutorial on this game is a hand-walking master piece for new players. "Click here and drag here".

There should also be follow up games that you need to consider. Say they loose interest in the first choice. People are going to gawk at my next recommendation.

Metroid Prime I - So, the first part of the level maybe hard. You get access to all of your stuff, and it might be overwhelming. After you beat the first boss, you lose all of it. Thus your controls are now: Aim, Shoot, Jump and Move. The first areas are very forgiving too. OMG IT'S THE GIANT... beetle? takes 3 hits to kill and does about 2% damage... on noes. Another reason I mention this one is that it has a pretty good difficulty curve. You're never given enemies that you can't defeat. After you beat a hard enemy, then you're given some item that makes the older enemies easy. This also means the games about to throw a harder enemy at you as well. That and this game is visually beautiful to a first timer. Down part is that this game can get a little boring or frustrating when you don't know where the **** to go.

If you think they would be into any rpg style game, then give them one from the Mario RPG line. Maybe not the greatest RPG's (I think they're awesome though) but it's great for a beginner no matter what.

People are going to hate this one too, but, Pokemon, the very first Red or Blue game was an amazing game. Easy to catch on to, plenty of stuff to do, and a clear objective to complete.

Alright, criticize away.

~MasterRahl

 

[boredpulmonologist]

OK, Left for Dead is not a good idea for beginners. They don't really have time to learn how to move and look around because if they are distracted they DIE. Plus, a newbie wouldn't fit with L4D because (more than likely) if the zombies start closing in, s/he will run. And then get killed by being separated.

You're probably right. I was thinking portal too, but I don't know how representative Portal is of the whole shoot and kill things genre. I guess for the controls it's good. Half Life 2 might be the happy medium, but the creepy atmosphere might be off putting to some non-gamers. I guess it really depends.

At the risk of sounding sacrilegious, Chrono Trigger has not aged well. Fantastic as that game was, I find it possible that a modern player would find the retro graphics, sound and even turn based gameplay hard to get past (though the last one is a matter of taste). I think something more modern is required. The trouble is, most modern RPGs are so unintuitive that no new person would find them fun.

 

[orangeapples]

I'd recommend final Fantasy X.

Basic navigation of an avatar through a 3D world.
Simple enough story to follow.
gradual difficulty curve.
Action is entirely FMV or combat.
Combat waits for you.

after the turn based combat of JRPG I'd move them over to a hack-n-slash/beat-em-up

get them used to the idea of real time fighting

if not that then maybe some lightgun games (Time Crisis)

then move then onto a platformer (Sands of Time, Kingdom Hearts, Ratchet, God of War)

some more advanced 3d gaming navigation

I can't think of any good examples from this gen right now >_>

 

[MissAshley]

Mario has finally succumbed to the temptation of the fast buck.

Galaxy 2 wasn't motivated by greed. It was motivated by the desire to more fully realize the toolset the developers had created with Galaxy. This has been stated multiple times.

I also don't understand how enjoying "more of the same" amounts to being "cowed and obedient." For myself, at least, the best games I've played have left me not just wanting more, but more of what I just finished playing. For once since SMB2 JP (which was released 24 years ago), Nintendo has provided that, and for one of its most malleable toolsets yet no less.

I understand your perspective, but I feel you're unfairly accusing Nintendo of acting under less than benign motivations.

 

[MissAshley]

My point here is that Mario is perfectly fine the way it is. If the people who have played this game grow sick of it, there's always a younger generation of little kids willing to play it. I don't think anybody in Nintendo designed Super Mario Galaxy 2 for thirty-year-old curmudgeons with sweet hats.

Well said. You remind me of something I read somewhere about Sonic 4 at E3. The writer found himself personally dismayed by it, but had to concede it still had purpose as he learned of a child glued to a demo booth.

I firmly believe that while people may never outgrow video games, certain games and franchises may simply cease to be for those people as they get older. And nine times out of ten, the reason isn't because the game or franchise has changed; those people have.

 

[persopolis]

as a suggestion for Roger Ebert: portal maybe? The controls aren't that hard, the difficulty curve runs smoothly and it has been praised as one of the best games ever, not only by the more mainstream critics, but also by yahtzee himself.

 

[Juan Regular]

Interesting of you to bring that up now, because only moments ago I played DeathSpank with my girlfriend and it was literally the first time she managed to navigate the levels instantly, so maybe that top-down semi 3d gameplay might be a good place to start for a non gamer.
Problem of course is that those games are usually RPG´s and they´re never exactly accesible on the long run, even if they´re fairly simple. But the navigation works.

 

[Slinker07]

I actually always feelt that Mario 64 was a great introduction to 3D for me at the time. Cause it allowed you to explore and fool around a lot.

 

[twm1709]

well, how about Trine? Its not THAT difficult, both graphics and sound are VERY pretty, its controls are accesible enough and doesn't look as childish as LBP can.

 

[NotMePleaseIgnore]

In LBP the controls AREN'T floaty but just different to Mario and most 2D platformers. Or rather they are floaty in a way but not using floaty as a pejorative, just a general description; if you can't deal with the controls because they're different then that doesn't mean that they're immediately terrible. Take some time to get used to them or just say that you're bad with those type of jumps; not that those type of jumps are bad.

Alternatively wait for LBP2 where you can change the gravity in the levels you make anyway and have it play just like Mario.

 

[Slinker07]

OK, Left for Dead is not a good idea for beginners. They don't really have time to learn how to move and look around because if they are distracted they DIE. Plus, a newbie wouldn't fit with L4D because (more than likely) if the zombies start closing in, s/he will run. And then get killed by being separated.

You're probably right. I was thinking portal too, but I don't know how representative Portal is of the whole shoot and kill things genre. I guess for the controls it's good. Half Life 2 might be the happy medium, but the creepy atmosphere might be off putting to some non-gamers. I guess it really depends.

At the risk of sounding sacrilegious, Chrono Trigger has not aged well. Fantastic as that game was, I find it possible that a modern player would find the retro graphics, sound and even turn based gameplay hard to get past (though the last one is a matter of taste). I think something more modern is required. The trouble is, most modern RPGs are so unintuitive that no new person would find them fun.

I would go for portal if I wanted someone introduce directly to the whole first-person thing. Cause it has a great introduction to the gameplay at the beginning. And it's more about solving pussels rather than be good at moving around at the beginning. I've notice that when people often try FPS they often gets lost a lot at the beginning. I think Portals small, and simpel look would make it easier for new players to find it's way in.

 

[F-I-D-O]

OK, Left for Dead is not a good idea for beginners. They don't really have time to learn how to move and look around because if they are distracted they DIE. Plus, a newbie wouldn't fit with L4D because (more than likely) if the zombies start closing in, s/he will run. And then get killed by being separated.

You're probably right. I was thinking portal too, but I don't know how representative Portal is of the whole shoot and kill things genre. I guess for the controls it's good. Half Life 2 might be the happy medium, but the creepy atmosphere might be off putting to some non-gamers. I guess it really depends.

At the risk of sounding sacrilegious, Chrono Trigger has not aged well. Fantastic as that game was, I find it possible that a modern player would find the retro graphics, sound and even turn based gameplay hard to get past (though the last one is a matter of taste). I think something more modern is required. The trouble is, most modern RPGs are so unintuitive that no new person would find them fun.

It's not for point and kill. But it's a great intro to the mechanics that are the bones of every FPS. After Portal, maybe Halo or Half life, and then an adrenaline packed stress-filled fragfest that is L4D.
About your comment on Chrono trigger

I've been playing it on the DS a lot recently, and I felt it was the perfect RPG intro (if you wanted something a tad deeper than Mario). I adore the retro graphics

They might not look good on a TV now, but they fit right in on the DS.
And I'm keeping my pixels.
The sound could use some work, and the battle system is only a bit away from Real time. As you're telling party member 2 what to do, party member 1 is being attacked, and party member 3 is attacking. It allowed a faster system, and the fact that the options can slow it down would be great for beginners. It's not the best modern RPG, but I thought it would fit the bill perfectly. Interesting characters, good plot, nice long game, and a great learning curve.
And if they don't want to play with pixelated characters, then I can not teach them.

Yeah, sorry about the image heavy post.

 

[Crossborder]

Put Mario Galaxy in front of someone who's never played a game before in their lives and see how well they do.

That's my point. And the reason those tutorial thingy's are there are there.
And yes, maybe casual was the wrong word, but it's not exactly aimed at the hardcore audience either, now is it?
And thanks for mentioning me, btw.