Super Mario Galaxy 2

[AgentNein]

Mario 1 -> 2 = More of the same
Mario 3 -> World = More of the same
Mario 64 -> Sunshine = More of the same
Mario Galaxy -> Galaxy 2 = More of the same

Do your damn homework next time Yahtzee, Nintendo have been doing the major revision -> minor tweaks since the very beginning. You could argue that the Rock suit, Yoshi, Cloud suit and revised map are less of a change than the water pack or Yoshi plus revised map but you can't say there's a significant difference.

Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World, despite both being platformers, are extremely different games. I remember first playing World and thinking to myself "my god, they've thrown out all the things Mario 3 did and have gone back to the drawing board...". It honestly made me mad till I realized what a great game Mario World was.

So yeah, a good analogy is comparing Mario 64 (Mario World) to Mario Galaxy (Mario 3). Mario World (and Mario 64) gave us a sandbox to fuck around in with just a couple of (really useful) tools. Levels are wide open, with secrets out the ass. Mario 3 (as with Mario galax..ies?) gave us a very tight, very lean and VERY challenging game play experience. It focused the experience to a laser point.

I see you completely omitted Mario World 2 (which wouldn't have helped you anyway).

Same goes with Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine. Both do have generally similar structures in terms of level design, but the waterpack completely changes the gameplay! It's nothing to shake a stick at, as these are platformers when you change the very nature of the 'platforming' in question you're making a huge difference. The water pack alone (like it or not) made Sunshine a completely different game.

So yeah, I'd say it's safe to disagree with the idea that Nintendo has been doing this for years with the core Mario franchise. About the only point you correctly made was that the J-super Mario 2 was essentially an add on for Super Mario bros, and that's something he already pointed out in the article.

 

[Makszi]

Little Big Planet shall now be known as the 'Gaming Tutorial'

 

[joebushido]

I got my mom into the whole idea of gaming by giving her my DS with a copy of professor layton and the curious village. It's got a good, charming story with interesting characters and the puzzles are challenging in-and-of themselves without demanding mastery of the input device. She also really liked Exit DS and Picross.

Also, I showed Crayon Physics to my younger cousins and they made their dad buy a tablet for their laptops.

 

[wellhereiam]

So am I the only one who noticed that Yahtzee cussed out some random guy for no(good) reason. Is there some type of history between them because otherwise that was completely uncalled for.
I understand thats how he makes a living but singling out someone like he did is just plain dickish the guy didn't say anything to warrant that. Fuck you Yahtzee.

Edit: Oh and of course after reading the rest of the article thinking he might behave like a decent person and retract that I find that he instead opts to do it a second time. Lovely.

 

[GloatingSwine]

On the other hand, The Lost Levels was originally SMB2 in Japan, so it's not exactly unheard of for Nintendo to put out an expansion pack sequel for Mario, they just haven't done it in a while.

 

[AntonyC]

Shigeru Miyamoto is a toymaker.
He makes toys for children.
Yahtzee has written a piece of work outlining why he is disappointed with a children's toy.

Why is Yahtzee playing with children's toys?

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

-1st letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians.

 

[Bloodstain]

I think Katamari Damacy would be a good introduction to gaming as well.

I'd probably recommend some sort of not too violent FPS game like Half-Life 2. I think the fast pace and pretty easy but pretty fun puzzles would be good for a starter.

I think a newbie would be too scared of dying.
Whenever I start playing a new game, I am a bit.

 

[boiled_elephant]

The games that drew my mother and sister respectively into gaming were Portal and Trine. Small, cutesy games with a nice graphical veneer and a simple core gameplay mechanic are best (and no fucking cutscenes or cinematic pretention).

 

[Not That]

This may sound weird, but I think Portal would be a great first game to introduce someone to gaming. Yes, it's complex, but it starts out simple and teaches each new mechanic individually before building it up into the bigger challenge and putting all the little puzzle elements together. It's sophisticated, has great and intelligent humor, and would be a good introduction to the first person perspective, because leaving aside the turrets there's nothing trying to murder you.

 

[Iranon]

I agree on most parts, but SMB2 wasn't only released in Japan. I live in Sweden, and I have (had, I guess) a PAL version of it. Unless I was special in some way and found the only PAL version in existance, I'd say it was released here too.

Hi there! I'm a fellow Swedish person and I recall us getting the Doki Doki version of SMB2. With Mario, Luigi, Toad and Princess Peach all playable. Later on we also got Lost Levels, but that was Way much later. There were of course these cassettes available with like 31 or 51 games on them and usually the original SMB2 would be on them

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

As an introduction to gaming i would suggest Klonoa: door to Phantomile for the ps1.
Yeah its retro now, but its one of the games in 3d that is easily to get because it uses a 2.5d control scheme. the difficulty curve is constant, but relies more on thinking and logic than pure reflexes, and in the end you have to think a couple of moves ahead both in platforming and boss encounters.

 

[Pixiebutt]

On the "games to recommend the critical newcomer" topic, I'd list these as the reading/playing assignment for the PC centric, in no real particular order:

1) Half Life 2 - I was debating the first game, but considering just how balmy the original gets, and the excess of jumping puzzles, I think the second installment would be a great primer to the concept of modern gaming.

2) World of Goo - To counter the argument of "all games are about space marines beating up hookers". It's an absolutely beautiful puzzle game that represents some of the best of independent development efforts.

3) Fallout - One of the great classic cRPGs, and a great example of choice and consequence gameplay. While the GTA series are lauded for their sandboxy freedom, Fallout edges it out for the recommendation.

4) The Sims 3 - This may seem like a bit of a sissy recommendation, but it is one of the best "God games" currently available that doesn't require a headache or two to "complete". It really is as close to a toy box game as I can think of for the PC.

5) Grim Fandango/The Neverhood (Tie) - These two adventure games are, I feel, the creme of their gene's crop. Fandango has its distinct art style and grand tale, while The Neverhood has it's own minimalist storytelling style and quirky sense of humor.

6) Wing Commander 3 - The exception to the FMV rule, a basic but well told space opera with fun gameplay and a star-studded cast with excellent performances. While earlier Wing Commander games might be better for showing what the series was about, WC3 is the best of the series for a new player to enter.

7) American McGee's Alice - For a game based on an existing literary work, Alice is one of the best examples of taking the material and carving out a new interpretation. Admittedly a hard game, but well worth the investment of time for the visuals and story.

8) Mirror's Edge/Prince of Persia (2008)/Portal - While Portal is a bit of a no-brainer, the other two are also excellent examples of platformers with a a rich, colorful art style and gameplay not centered around "killin doods".

9) Eve Online - "Whoa," I hear you say, "That's not exactly 'first-time' gaming material!" I personally recommend it on the basis of what happens when you take a simulation to extreme levels, and exposing a new game player to the realities of player-versus-player gameplay. Everything after Eve Online seems like a cakewalk.

10) Team Fortress 2 - A multiplayer game whose style and culture rampantly bleed and infest a good chunk of the gaming demographic, it is a solid FPS multiplayer game that is simple to learn and had to master. I'd star them on a vanilla-content server to start with, and graduate them to the unlocks and hats later.

 

[Unesh52]

Ok, I'm getting mixed responses. First Croshaw says that Nintendo overuse their intellectual property, but then retracts and says that that the Mario franchise is diverse and by no means are his new games simple iteration. What am I misunderstanding here?

 

[Pixiebutt]

Ok, I'm getting mixed responses. First Croshaw says that Nintendo overuse their intellectual property, but then retracts and says that that the Mario franchise is diverse and by no means are his new games simple iteration. What am I misunderstanding here?

The way I'm reading it, is that Croshaw is saying the Mario franchise in this case is very prevalent in Nintendo products, to the point where you could swing a dead cat and usually hit a first party Nintendo product that has Mario embedded in it. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Galaxy, Mario Tennis, Paper Mario, Mario Pole Dancing, things like that. The amount of games that Mario stars in is enormous in comparison to his peers.

However, looking at the list of games I cited above (minus Mario Pole Dancing), are not simply the same game with a new name. They're widely different products, each one usually both serving the Mario fans while being tailored to a specific genre of gameplay.

So in this case, Nintendo may whore out Mario a lot, but they whore him out for a lot of different things.

 

[Towels]

An old retro game like the original Mario or Sonic-perhaps even Mega Man would work out pretty well.

A turn-based RPG would also work pretty well IMO.

I agree that Mario, Sonic or Megaman would make good beginner games because they are simple and straight-foward, but I disagree about RPGs. Consider the attention span of the average newbie gamer, and then consider how patient a player must be watch through dialoges and cutscenes to get to the gameplay, especially with today's RPGs.

Personally I think Arcade games make the best demonstrations, but all the good ones are online now. I sure do miss the golden age of arcades...

Plus, I also think American Football games make good introductions too, if the person is a sportsfan. The controls are usually simple enough for a gamer newbie/football fan to pick the right play and go with, but eventually they can learn advanced controls when they get comfortable.

 

[Raykuza]

Posts like these are the reason I still pay attention to Yahtzee. Behind all the nitpicking and dick jokes is probably one of the best video game critics around.

 

[XAEnimaX]

I think the lego games are also a good entry-level series for new gamers. They have some decent platforming elements, the controls are simple but also respond poorly at times, it encourages the "gotta collect everything" feel that most gamers have almost instinctively and they almost mandate co-op so you can be a crutch for the newb. Perhaps LBP has many similarities though. I haven't played it myself so I can't really tell but I'm sure you're probably right in your assessment.

 

[ValentineBlacker]

I actually had this idea last week (which one game would you force someone to play to prove that videogames are a valid medium of expression) and was going to be all smart and make a forum post about it, but I couldn't come up with an answer. I was going to say one of the Gamecube Zeldas, since I think the GC has a really intuitive controller, and Zelda tends to be fun and engaging without being too difficult, but then I flash back to attempting to teach my mom how to play Super Swing Golf and give up on the whole idea.

I hope to god Mario games never feel like they need to be too innovative on the plot. That's not what we play them for. We have Mario RPGs for that.

 

[Gaming King]

Super Mario 64 has a nice and easy difficulty curve and you can learn to play as you go by reading the signs. GREAT for a new gamer. And my second or third favorite game, right after BioShock and possibly BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger. (If Continuum Shift and/or BlazBlue 3 screw it up for me, Calamity Trigger may drop a few.)

 

[Solaris Paradox]

Feh, evolution be damned. Mario Galaxy 2 is enough of a better game than Galaxy 1 and on the whole *infinitely* better than Sunshine (not from a "the water pump was a stupid idea" standpoint, mind you, but from a "there were just too many @#$%ing terrible aspects" standpoint). You can talk about evolution all you like, but Galaxy 2 did what any sequel worth its salt should do--took what was good about a previous installment and expanded on it. For me, that's more than enough.

It's great when a game does more than "just" improve, mind you. But I just do not see that as a requirement for a good game or even a great game.

EDIT: Variety, on the other hand, is plenty required, but personally I see variety within a game more important than variety between games. Maybe that has something to do with me being more concerned for the eight-plus hours I spend playing the game than for the two-plus years I spend waiting for the next one.