Table top RPGs

[Ossian]

Okay this is sort of a hybrid discussion/advice topic.

I've been playing more and more video games lately and found wanting, either the single playerness of RPG games feels empty or they are too scripted, anyways. I was looking through some crap on my bedroom shelf and I found my brother's old Starwars RPG books (Wizards of the coast) I read through some of them and remembered the awesome times I had when I was a kid playing with my brothers.

Problem is, I don't have many (if any) friends that would play it with me. I asked my most nerdy friend, one that would spend an entire day playing video games like nazi zombies with me, and it didn't end well.

First he said "Eww, there aren't any graphics" at which point I facepalmed on the other side of the phone. Then he goes on to say "Games like that are just lame"
Now, I haven't given up on him, but I'm having trouble trying to get him to get past his preconceptions. Does anyone have any advice how I could spin it to him and some other friends without them reacting so poorly? I really want to game-master these guys in an RPG, and I'm not really willing to go out and look for some group of strangers to play with.

On the discussion front; why on earth do people think RPG games are so horrible? Has D&D completely jaded an entire generation towards such games? When I talk about it people think its all like dressing up and playing make believe. They don't get that it is basically a non video game version of all their favorite RPG video games like KOTOR/Mass effect/Dragon age etc.
I thought we were more tolerant then this?

 

[TheDuckbunny]

Show them the youtube videos of Robot Chicken playing D&D or let them listen to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts on the Wizards of the Coast website. They do an awesome job of showing the game in a fun and interesting way.

 

[Megalodon]

Frankly, I doubt you will have much luck trying to twist people's arms into playing and RPG with you.
I'd recommend you check out if your college as some form of RPG society, that way you get a game and also meet new people, which is always good.

 

[Aulleas123]

The problem, in my opinion, is that in order to play many of these games, it requires a group of people who are interested in similar things. For example, my friends and I are all interested in the Warhammer 40k universe. We all got together and started playing some of the table top RPGs associated with it (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader). We all have a good time with it, yeah it's a little nerdy, but so is playing WoW or KoTOR. In fact, the whole gaming community is nerdy, so what?

The dressing up part is only for LARPing, and while I'd never be caught dead doing that, I'd give those guys credit for having the balls to do that in public. I can't really see how anyone would really dress up to sit around a table and roll dice.

Oh, and for the friend who made the comment about graphics, ask him if he reads books. I'm pretty sure once you get past third grade, the picture books are no longer part of book clubs.

 

[kingcom]

Firstly, people are extremely hostile to things which are even the slightest out of the norm. Video games have become the norm so its not something that can be judged as "nerdy" by the usual expectations.

Secondly, they will never treat it like their favourite RPG, its like people who watch sport and cant understand how someone can treat a video game like Starcraft in the same manner. Just because it uses the same set of logic, their different on the surface, therfore people will see them differently.

Now on to the topic. Show them the strengths of the Table Top Roleplaying medium, not how they are different to videogames. Why I like them is that they give you a freedom to make your own decision. If you really want to go down the Video Games to TTRPGs, ask them if they thought any of Shepards decisions were stupid. Ask them what they would have done. Explain to them that they can go an do that. That is called a TTRPG.

 

[Ossian]

To clarify, the one I quoted is basically an xbox kid, uses words like "gay!" and "fag!" so you could understand if watching videos of people playing a game wouldn't help, in fact I think it would actually detour him.

But I thank you for the videos, watching them now

 

[Ossian]

The problem, in my opinion, is that in order to play many of these games, it requires a group of people who are interested in similar things. For example, my friends and I are all interested in the Warhammer 40k universe. We all got together and started playing some of the table top RPGs associated with it (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader). We all have a good time with it, yeah it's a little nerdy, but so is playing WoW or KoTOR. In fact, the whole gaming community is nerdy, so what?

The dressing up part is only for LARPing, and while I'd never be caught dead doing that, I'd give those guys credit for having the balls to do that in public. I can't really see how anyone would really dress up to sit around a table and roll dice.

Oh, and for the friend who made the comment about graphics, ask him if he reads books. I'm pretty sure once you get past third grade, the picture books are no longer part of book clubs.

He doesn't read novels, he only reads books when it is required by school, and he hates it.
I on the other hand have read dozens of novels, and I'm trying to write my own.

 

[zHellas]

Show them the youtube videos of Robot Chicken playing D&D or let them listen to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts on the Wizards of the Coast website. They do an awesome job of showing the game in a fun and interesting way.

Yeah, the Robot Chicken writers playing D&D actually got me into the idea of it.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I've never had a problem with tabletop games, but then I got into tabletop during the 8-bit era when people had to rely on imagination, not graphics cards, to bring a game world to life. There are a lot of people out there though who prefer sparkly graphics over deep gameplay, but (if I may be so bold) these aren't really the type of people to invite to an RP session as their main 'gaming focus' is not on in-depth gameplay - something which is fundamental to a cohesive RP group.

Spoiler: As for most people's view of RP? Well here you go:

 

[The Almighty Grigard]

I really don't know what to say. My experience is completely different.

I've been playing Exalted for a while with friends and people I know that I never thought would ever show any interest in RPGs are joining us and we are having a laugh.

Recently I felt like GMing an Fallout pen and paper RPG and within a day I had a complete group of people to play with. Again people I really didn't think would be that into it.

Really though, it does have that "geeky" feel to it at first and our first session (we were all newbies) we were almost ashamed to speak up. We got over that quickly and found a world of laughs instead, which attracted even our militant, non-geek, never touched a game outside the occasional Call of Duty, friend and he is having a blast.

I hope you can talk your friends into it and that they start enjoying it. Believe me, once the gamemaster gets going and people are willing to immerse themselves in another world and just being a character it's great. I actually like the character interaction much more than the combat parts.

 

[fleischwolke]

If you don't want to proselytize, then the tip about the college is quite valid, or looking for a friendly local game shop. I did that every time I changed city and met a lot of interesting people and future friends this way.

 

[Turing]

To clarify, the one I quoted is basically an xbox kid, uses words like "gay!" and "fag!" so you could understand if watching videos of people playing a game wouldn't help, in fact I think it would actually detour him.

But I thank you for the videos, watching them now

Yeah honestly he doesn't much sound like anyone I'd think you'd enjoy playing RPGs with anyway.
Better to go find local gaming group and join their game, I'd say

 

[Aulleas123]

The problem, in my opinion, is that in order to play many of these games, it requires a group of people who are interested in similar things. For example, my friends and I are all interested in the Warhammer 40k universe. We all got together and started playing some of the table top RPGs associated with it (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader). We all have a good time with it, yeah it's a little nerdy, but so is playing WoW or KoTOR. In fact, the whole gaming community is nerdy, so what?

The dressing up part is only for LARPing, and while I'd never be caught dead doing that, I'd give those guys credit for having the balls to do that in public. I can't really see how anyone would really dress up to sit around a table and roll dice.

Oh, and for the friend who made the comment about graphics, ask him if he reads books. I'm pretty sure once you get past third grade, the picture books are no longer part of book clubs.

He doesn't read novels, he only reads books when it is required by school, and he hates it.
I on the other hand have read dozens of novels, and I'm trying to write my own.

See, this is why you will be a successful individual and he will not.
(Of course I know absolutely nothing about your friend so let me take the time for this disclaimer that I am in no way insinuating that your friend is a failure who doesn't read or have an imagination. I will neither confirm nor deny statements that would suggest or deter success based on reading from leisure. I am in no way responsible for the contents of this post, except that I am and I hope your friend, should he ever see this post, should not waste time yelling at me and just read a book)

 

[kingcom]

He doesn't read novels, he only reads books when it is required by school, and he hates it.
I on the other hand have read dozens of novels, and I'm trying to write my own.

This guy clearly isnt someone who would be interested in playing a table top rpg. I wouldnt bother any further with him.

 

[Wutaiflea]

At the risk of being a total *****, I think of tabletop RPGs as being horrible because they are. This opinion isn't affected by D&D- it's one tabletop system I've never tried.

I've tried my hand at pretty much every forum of roleplay (games, online gaming, LARPing etc) and I can honestly say my worst experiences were with tabletop roleplaying.

Fans of tabletop seem to be under the false impression that their games are entirely unpredictable and driven by the players' actions, but I found this couldn't be further from the truth. If anything, most campaigns are driven by whatever in the instruction book, and, even worse, by the GM.

On more than one occasion in games I've played, GMs have stubbornly refused to allow the party to leave a room, lest we miss their cunning set-piece, or we wouldn't be allowed to carry out our preferred action because they hadn't considered it, and daren't think on their feet. Where is the freedom in that? You might as well be following the script of any linear computer game, except with more time wasted while you all scramble around for your dice.

I also have to say that I've found more tabletop campaigns to be predictable than computer games. I, quite famously within our roleplaying group at the time, blew open what was supposed to be a long-winded, subtle political intrigue plot with one question in the first session.

Although I know these experiences don't necessarily reflect every GM and every tabletop roleplayer out there (even I've had good games), I think most people who have a crack at tabletop are met with this bullshit, namely very unimaginative, uncreative people who have more of a stonk-on for the numbers and maths involved than telling a good story or playing a good character.

And why the fuck would anyone persevere with that? There are better roleplayers at LARP meets, and you get to wear a pretty costume to that too.

 

[Ossian]

The problem, in my opinion, is that in order to play many of these games, it requires a group of people who are interested in similar things. For example, my friends and I are all interested in the Warhammer 40k universe. We all got together and started playing some of the table top RPGs associated with it (Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader). We all have a good time with it, yeah it's a little nerdy, but so is playing WoW or KoTOR. In fact, the whole gaming community is nerdy, so what?

The dressing up part is only for LARPing, and while I'd never be caught dead doing that, I'd give those guys credit for having the balls to do that in public. I can't really see how anyone would really dress up to sit around a table and roll dice.

Oh, and for the friend who made the comment about graphics, ask him if he reads books. I'm pretty sure once you get past third grade, the picture books are no longer part of book clubs.

He doesn't read novels, he only reads books when it is required by school, and he hates it.
I on the other hand have read dozens of novels, and I'm trying to write my own.

See, this is why you will be a successful individual and he will not.
(Of course I know absolutely nothing about your friend so let me take the time for this disclaimer that I am in no way insinuating that your friend is a failure who doesn't read or have an imagination. I will neither confirm nor deny statements that would suggest or deter success based on reading from leisure. I am in no way responsible for the contents of this post, except that I am and I hope your friend, should he ever see this post, should not waste time yelling at me and just read a book)

Its good, he's kind of a jerk, but I don't have many nerdy friends.

 

[kingcom]

If anything, most campaigns are driven by whatever in the instruction book, and, even worse, by the GM.

On more than one occasion in games I've played, GMs have stubbornly refused to allow the party to leave a room, lest we miss their cunning set-piece, or we wouldn't be allowed to carry out our preferred action because they hadn't considered it, and daren't think on their feet. Where is the freedom in that? You might as well be following the script of any linear computer game, except with more time wasted while you all scramble around for your dice.

I also have to say that I've found more tabletop campaigns to be predictable than computer games. I, quite famously within our roleplaying group at the time, blew open what was supposed to be a long-winded, subtle political intrigue plot with one question in the first session.

Although I know these experiences don't necessarily reflect every GM and every tabletop roleplayer out there (even I've had good games), I think most people who have a crack at tabletop are met with this bullshit, namely very unimaginative, uncreative people who have more of a stonk-on for the numbers and maths involved than telling a good story or playing a good character.

Personally i have only ever had 1 game run as you have described, for the others I've had nothing but great story and characters with a more on the fly numbers game. We had a guy who loved obsession over the numbers. You know what he played? An Adept (the knowledge character in Dark Heresy for clarification). I've heard of horrible stories and people giving much more long winded explanations and prefer to have a GM character show up and be awesome but never actually run into it myself.

Perhaps my luck and I can only speak from personal experience and say that a good DM and good group of friends can have an awesome roleplaying experience.

Honestly I see waht your saying to be more than the situation of having "a bad GM" which is just as easy to have as a bad video game plot (Fallout 3 springs to mind). These things happen, you find the elements of any system and things work out. Whats to stop bad LARPers ruining things? Making certain demands of how things are run?

 

[kingcom]

Its good, he's kind of a jerk, but I don't have many nerdy friends.

As a nerd, im kinda offended to be in the same category as this guy.

 

[Wutaiflea]

rant snippage

Personally i have only ever had 1 game run as you have described, for the others I've had nothing but great story and characters with a more on the fly numbers game. We had a guy who loved obsession over the numbers. You know what he played? An Adept (the knowledge character in Dark Heresy for clarification). I've heard of horrible stories and people giving much more long winded explanations and prefer to have a GM character show up and be awesome but never actually run into it myself.

Perhaps my luck and I can only speak from personal experience and say that a good DM and good group of friends can have an awesome roleplaying experience.

I'd say you're very lucky not to have had that kind of experience. I've tried a lot of games, and several groups and had pretty much the same experience across the board.

I will admit though, that you're right about a good GM and a group of buds- I was once part of an amazing Spirit of Century mini-campaign where my mate Karl's GMing was amazing.

As I said though, I think those experiences are in the minority, and I certainly don't feel like returning to the hobby on the off-chance of finding a good group- my bad experiences have utterly put me off, and I imagine they do with a lot of people.

 

[kingcom]

I'd say you're very lucky not to have had that kind of experience. I've tried a lot of games, and several groups and had pretty much the same experience across the board.

I will admit though, that you're right about a good GM and a group of buds- I was once part of an amazing Spirit of Century mini-campaign where my mate Karl's GMing was amazing.

As I said though, I think those experiences are in the minority, and I certainly don't feel like returning to the hobby on the off-chance of finding a good group- my bad experiences have utterly put me off, and I imagine they do with a lot of people.

I suppose thats the reason table top roleplaying will never get to any serious level of popularity. For it to work, you need many human elements to work. And human elements are fallible.