Target Australia will no longer stock GTA5

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Guerilla said:
Could you clarify your post? I don't understand your point. Are you agreeing with me because Anita really said this bullshit and there's a transcript to confirm that.
I'm saying that you're making claims that can't be proven. The transcript doesn't say what you want it to say, you can't demonstrate she's a con artist, and I don't think you can even point to her calling Hitman misogynistic.

I'm saying that, in order for me to have meant what you claim I meant, you have to first ignore the fact that it's said without regard to any truth of the matter. Which seems to the MO for Gamergate and its "sympathisers."
 

Guerilla

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Zachary Amaranth said:
I'm saying that you're making claims that can't be proven. The transcript doesn't say what you want it to say, you can't demonstrate she's a con artist, and I don't think you can even point to her calling Hitman misogynistic.

I'm saying that, in order for me to have meant what you claim I meant, you have to first ignore the fact that it's said without regard to any truth of the matter. Which seems to the MO for Gamergate and its "sympathisers."
When you're right, you're right. The transcript is actually much, MUCH worse. I quote it for everyone to witness feminist lunacy that ignores both the big picture and common sense:

Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

It?s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.
 

rob_simple

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Guerilla said:
Modern feminism is quickly becoming the conservatism of the 21st century, the censorship, sex phobic behavior and mud slinging against anyone disagreeing with their dogma all point to that.
So, Third-Wave Feminism is essentially the Left's Right?

Sorry, I just said that in my head and it made me chuckle. I do agree, though.
 

Something Amyss

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Guerilla said:
When you're right, you're right. The transcript is actually much, MUCH worse. I quote it for everyone to witness feminist lunacy that ignores both the big picture and common sense:

Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

It?s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.
It's only much worse if you're still unconcerned with honesty.

So you failed to back up one claim, and ignored the other two. Can't say I'm exactly surprised.
 

darkstarangel

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Just when we finally started getting the good games some fuckwit jumps in to ruin it for everyone.

We assume it's a feminist who made this complaint because they know nothing about GTA5 & took no consideration about games that promoted violence against men, because somehow that's ok.
 

ugeine

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Guerilla said:
Are you seriously putting in the same category game "journalists" and actual game creators? Yes, ugeine, boycotting the ones supporting censorship is EXACTLY the same as censoring creators. Perfect comparison, congrats again.
The category is 'Private organisations.' Ilovechocolatemilk was complaining that 'SJWs' were pressuring private organistations into doing their will, I simply pointed out that games journalists and games creators both belong to private organisations, and gamergaters famously launched an operation to pressure games journalists into doing their will.

Unless you think that the organisations that games journalists belong to aren't private? Do you think they're owned by the government?
 

Guerilla

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Guerilla said:
When you're right, you're right. The transcript is actually much, MUCH worse. I quote it for everyone to witness feminist lunacy that ignores both the big picture and common sense:

Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

It?s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.
It's only much worse if you're still unconcerned with honesty.

So you failed to back up one claim, and ignored the other two. Can't say I'm exactly surprised.
What is this, opposite day? I specifically provide a copy-paste of the quote and I'm the one failing to back up my claims? I just did, you're the one being completely abstract while refusing to acknowledge concrete proof I'm providing.
 

Guerilla

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ugeine said:
Guerilla said:
Are you seriously putting in the same category game "journalists" and actual game creators? Yes, ugeine, boycotting the ones supporting censorship is EXACTLY the same as censoring creators. Perfect comparison, congrats again.
The category is 'Private organisations.' Ilovechocolatemilk was complaining that 'SJWs' were pressuring private organistations into doing their will, I simply pointed out that games journalists and games creators both belong to private organisations, and gamergaters famously launched an operation to pressure games journalists into doing their will.

Unless you think that the organisations that games journalists belong to aren't private? Do you think they're owned by the government?
You're completely right, I skimmed his post and didn't realize he was talking about private organizations. Personally I don't give a crap about pressuring private organizations, some organizations focus on creating and shouldn't be censored but others are an opportunistic waste of oxygen and resources. But yeah, you're right, his post was ironic indeed.
 

Loonyyy

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Loonyyy said:
Don't you know, they're completely misrepresenting the game. THE HUMANITY.
Oh crap, you're right. I forgot that it was totally different now that it was something I cared about being misrepresented.
See, for that the punishment is severe. Misrepresentation is the worst.

Because none of us have ever heard of having sex with prostitutes in GTA and killing them to save money. Nope. Gamers have never heard of that, never done that. And because the game definitely doesn't implicitly endorse it, considering it's been present in numerous installments, and because the game(Especially not GTA V) definitely doesn't encourage you to keep money and not lose it. Definitely not.

But everything that's said in the petition is a lie, and those damn people definitely could never be Target's customers(Of course, most of the Australians in the thread have pointed out that Target is a pretty poor game shop, they're only worth going too on the off chance that they've fucked up and dramatically underpriced their games, so it's definitely not people being "Professional Victims" and pretending to be offended), and they're definitely not sickened. Nope, nope nope.

I'd say as a punishment you'd have to be misrepresented, but it looks like some other posters have taken care of that.
 

ugeine

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Guerilla said:
You're completely right, I skimmed his post and didn't realize he was talking about private organizations. Personally I don't give a crap about pressuring private organizations, some organizations focus on creating and shouldn't be censored but others are an opportunistic waste of oxygen and resources. But yeah, you're right, his post was ironic indeed.
Fair enough mate, thanks for clarifying.
 

Guerilla

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rob_simple said:
Guerilla said:
Modern feminism is quickly becoming the conservatism of the 21st century, the censorship, sex phobic behavior and mud slinging against anyone disagreeing with their dogma all point to that.
So, Third-Wave Feminism is essentially the Left's Right?

Sorry, I just said that in my head and it made me chuckle. I do agree, though.

The "left" in the US hasn't been actual left for decades. Liberals have embraced economic ultra-conservatism aka neoliberalism long ago and with the recent trend towards feminism they're embracing social conservatism too. They're pretty much indistinguishable from European conservatives, in fact in some European countries the right is much further to the left compared to them.

Feminists of course get furious when compared to conservatives but think about it, which other movement rejects large portions of the scientific community and its research (they reject biology, evolutionary biology, neuroscience), hates sex and both male and female sexuality (especially the male one, of course), makes up pseudoscientific bullshit to support their dogmas (like "triggers", a myth that is actually the completely opposite of what scientists suggest for PTSD victims) or supports censorship that feverishly? Only conservatives fit the profile.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Zhukov said:
gmaverick019 said:
see what I mean? There is no issue at all with people not liking something, hell I find GTA extremely boring, none of that shit has ever interested me, but I don't see why I should prevent someone else from being able to play it. Censorship is pretty much bad in all cases, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that actually warrants being outright censored, and sure, not every store has every item stocked in the history of stocking, but they aren't for "i'm offended! I demand to be accustomed to!" reasons, they are for the fact they aren't selling anymore or they can't get ahold of stock for it.
Again with the "censorship". Jesus, leave the poor word alone. It's already suffered enough.

GTA5 is not being censored. It is entirely legal to own, buy, sell and play GTA5 in Australia. This is a couple of retail outlets choosing not to stock a particular product because they wish to avoid offending their customers.

A few months ago a nearby bakery stopped stocking a kind of pie I really liked. Tell me, was that pie censored?
Again with the censorship, Jesus, leave the poor game alone. See?

Since you seem to be particularly obtuse in understanding what I'm getting at, I'll say it again, any store can choose to stock or not stock whatever the hell they want to that is within legal bounds, however, this is about the principle of choosing to not stock something because it "might offend someone somewhere at some time" when they have literally no interest in it regardless. As I've said before, I think GTA is as boring as watching paint dry, but like hell if I think it's okay that they removed a game because somewhere down the line, "teh womenzz can geht teh violense against dem" in some game, regardless of if I think it's remotely tasteful or not. They weren't even entirely accurate in the violent part that they were petitioning against.

A few months ago a nearby bakery stopped stocking a kind of pie I really liked. Tell me, was that pie censored?
What was the reasoning for them not stocking it anymore? Did some feminazi's threaten to throw flaming Molotov bra's at the store if they didn't get rid of them? Was there too much testosterone that might trigger rape thoughts in the pie?

Details, man.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Guerilla said:
I specifically provide a copy-paste of the quote and I'm the one failing to back up my claims?
When the quote doesn't back up your claims, yes. You might as well have quoted the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, for the relevance, and at least it would have been a more entertaining read. I'm sorry that I'm not going to falsely concede that you backed up your argument simply because you copypasted something that doesn't back you up, but I actually care about the truth value of the claims I make.

Hell, I left the quote in to show what I was responding to. I left it there for people to read because I was so confident that it doesn't make your point without some serious mental gymnastics.

Loonyyy said:
See, for that the punishment is severe. Misrepresentation is the worst.

Because none of us have ever heard of having sex with prostitutes in GTA and killing them to save money. Nope. Gamers have never heard of that, never done that. And because the game definitely doesn't implicitly endorse it, considering it's been present in numerous installments, and because the game(Especially not GTA V) definitely doesn't encourage you to keep money and not lose it. Definitely not.

But everything that's said in the petition is a lie, and those damn people definitely could never be Target's customers(Of course, most of the Australians in the thread have pointed out that Target is a pretty poor game shop, they're only worth going too on the off chance that they've fucked up and dramatically underpriced their games, so it's definitely not people being "Professional Victims" and pretending to be offended), and they're definitely not sickened. Nope, nope nope.
It's a shame none of those things are in any way true or relevant, because they would be awesome points. Alas, this is about how misrepresentation is wrong and that petition is totally not in itself being misrepresented.

I'd say as a punishment you'd have to be misrepresented, but it looks like some other posters have taken care of that.
The fault was mine. I went looking for internal consistency.

So does it count as time served, or what?
 

Guerilla

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Guerilla said:
I specifically provide a copy-paste of the quote and I'm the one failing to back up my claims?
When the quote doesn't back up your claims, yes. You might as well have quoted the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, for the relevance, and at least it would have been a more entertaining read. I'm sorry that I'm not going to falsely concede that you backed up your argument simply because you copypasted something that doesn't back you up, but I actually care about the truth value of the claims I make.

Hell, I left the quote in to show what I was responding to. I left it there for people to read because I was so confident that it doesn't make your point without some serious mental gymnastics.
It's amazing, the poster who has been obnoxiously ambiguous, not explaining how or why the exact thing I said and then quoted from a transcript Sarkeesian herself provides in her site ISN'T proven, is accusing me of mental gymnastics. I'm done with this so called discussion.
 

Eliam_Dar

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This makes me wonder, which game will be next? are we going to remove all games that offend anyone? because I assure somewhere there is someone offended by Candy Crush too. Then what, movies? why not magazines, then books, hell you could easily argue that the fantasy genre is male centric. Why not comics, and music while we are at it. When does it end? if someone is offended and we bend to their will every time, soon we will have nothing.
Why do they insist on everyone adapting to their needs?
- Don't like the game, don't buy it.
- Are you offended, grow up
- Want more games that cater to your taste, make them.
 

IceForce

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It's amazing how many of these arguments can be perfectly applied to GamerGate, with only a few simple word changes.

Allow me to borrow the following quote, for instance.
Eliam_Dar said:
- Don't like the game, don't buy it.
- Are you offended, grow up
- Want more games that cater to your taste, make them.
- Don't like a website, don't visit it.
- Are you offended, grow up. (Especially if you get called "dead")
- Want more articles that cater to your taste, write them yourself.
 

wAriot

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They are a private business, they can do anything they please with it. That doesn't mean I agree with it, especially because I see it as a knee-jerk reaction to a poll based on lies and distorted half-truths.
 

Lovely Mixture

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People defending this is pretty amusing.
"They weren't forced into not selling it, they just responded to a petition"
"They listened to their customers, it's a good thing right?"
"It's not censorship, it's a business decision"
"We shouldn't promote violence against women"

Amazing.


Zachary Amaranth said:
Guerilla said:
When you're right, you're right. The transcript is actually much, MUCH worse. I quote it for everyone to witness feminist lunacy that ignores both the big picture and common sense:

Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

It?s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.
It's only much worse if you're still unconcerned with honesty.

So you failed to back up one claim, and ignored the other two. Can't say I'm exactly surprised.
He provided the quote. He backed up the claim. Address his argument or admit that you were wrong.

IceForce said:
- Don't like a website, don't visit it.
Sure. But I'm not gonna prevent other people from visiting it.

IceForce said:
- Want more articles that cater to your taste, write them yourself.
If your viewers want better researched articles (that are otherwise flat-out wrong since they are supposed to be representative of actual events), then your first response shouldn't be to alienate your audience....Cause

IceForce said:
- Are you offended, grow up. (Especially if you get called "dead")
...it looks unprofessional.