Teaching kids about homosexuality

[Beliyal]

Not until their older. My little brother had the awkward moment of asking what does gay mean after hearing it from another kid in his class. My dad had to go for the actual old english meaning not for the slang its used as these days.

And why is that? You plan to keep your brother in a protective glass for how long? What are you protecting him from in the first place? The fact that there are people on the planet that are attracted to the same gender, and not the opposite one? How is that going to help your brother become tolerant, good and accepting towards homosexual people? Why do people have this inclination to "protect" the children against something completely natural that has existed in humans since the beginning of time (and that exists in the animal kingdom in general)? What is going to happen to your brother if he finds out that there are homosexual people? He's immediately going to turn into one of them because, hey, each of us, when we first heard about homosexuality, our first impulse to that knowledge was to run into the hands of a person of the same gender and have sex with them "to check it out"? You and your family should answer each of these questions. Sorry if this sounds preachy, but it really saddens me to see that you want to shield your brother from knowledge about the world around him. If it was physics, chemistry or history, it would be outrageous. But a simple biological fact about life and the world is also outrageous when kept away from kids that are learning about the world that surrounds them.

No, Unless the child is homosexual (which in most cases, is not) You should avoid the topic.

So, only homosexual people should know about homosexuality? The rest of us should just keep our eyes shut. And if the kid happens to ask about it himself/herself, like in the above example, you're going to tell them "Oh it's nothing, don't worry about it, really, it's not like it's an important part of our world"? That would also mean that you shouldn't talk about heterosexuality with kids that are homosexual. Isn't that flawed even when said hypothetically?

Also, the main question; why would you avoid talking about it? Out of fear your kid might discover they're gay? Because you think they won't be able to understand it? Kids understand much that we believe they don't. And explaining homosexual relationships is not one of those highly difficult things to understand. Also, if somebody really is afraid that their kids might end up saying that they're gay, they really have no idea what is a true value of life, if such insignificant little thing would shatter their world.

 

[101flyboy]

My pregnant sister has a 7 year old step-daughter who's in the process of learning about the birds and the bees. I was a little rattled to learn that my sister is only teaching her about hetrosexual relations, saying that it would be 'inappropriate' to tell her about homosexuality at such an early age as the step-daughter might discuss it at school and awkward phone calls from the teachers might follow. Since my sister is in a hetrosexual marriage she argued that it's what her step-daughter encounters on a daily basis, and thus is what she should be taught as the 'norm'.

Do you escapists think that children should be told about homosexuality and homosexual relationships at the same time as they're learning about straight relationships?

Absolutely not.

If an adult wants to make the decision that that lifestyle is for them, thats their business. But I completely disagree with teaching a child about it. As a parent, I find it outrageous that anyone would try to do so, to be honest.

That lifestyle is a sexual orientation and an attraction that most people in their lives feel at one time or another. And, I find it outrageous you think it's outrageous to teach kids about reality.

You may as well just say "I disagree with homosexuality and don't want kids to think it's an acceptable option." Since it's clear that is what you're saying.

If you go read all my other posts, you will see that I do not agree with homosexuality. I have stated that. I also disagree that MOST people feel a sexual attraction towards their own gender at some point in their lives. Sure, there are people that experience it. But most? I dont buy that.

Either way, you have your opinion, and I have mine. You will have to accept that they are different from each other.

I don't have to accept anti-gay attitudes. And I don't. I do accept you're entitled to your incorrect views, but I don't need to ACCEPT them. Because they are unacceptable.

And also:
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

"Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality, and includes various forms of bisexuality."

You know what a range is. You have the two extremes, and then the mean number. That is what sexual orientation is. The two EXTREMES are heterosexuality and homosexuality. The mean number is some degree of bisexuality.

Obviously, God wouldn't create these individuals this way, if he didn't mean to. I don't think God makes mistakes.

 

[KuwaSanjuro]

Yes, its all about the persons decisions and inner feelings and they should know that if they feel that way then it is fine to feel like that, its not encouraging it, its telling your child that if you feel that way you do not have to repress these feelings which makes everything so much worse. Children should be taught about heterosexual and homosexual relationships.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

My pregnant sister has a 7 year old step-daughter who's in the process of learning about the birds and the bees. I was a little rattled to learn that my sister is only teaching her about hetrosexual relations, saying that it would be 'inappropriate' to tell her about homosexuality at such an early age as the step-daughter might discuss it at school and awkward phone calls from the teachers might follow. Since my sister is in a hetrosexual marriage she argued that it's what her step-daughter encounters on a daily basis, and thus is what she should be taught as the 'norm'.

Do you escapists think that children should be told about homosexuality and homosexual relationships at the same time as they're learning about straight relationships?

Absolutely not.

If an adult wants to make the decision that that lifestyle is for them, thats their business. But I completely disagree with teaching a child about it. As a parent, I find it outrageous that anyone would try to do so, to be honest.

As an adult who grew up under parents who didn't teach me about homosexuality, I am outraged that they didn't prepare me for the world I would find myself in.

Seriously - homosexuality is something that children need to be introduced to (by "introduced", I mean that they should be taught that a: homosexuals exist, and b: it is not a choice a person makes, and c: it is a perfectly acceptable way to be) homosexuality. I'm a lesbian, and I spent my entire life until I was 19 agonising over attractions and tendencies I couldn't understand because my upbringing had not prepared me to deal with them, before finally being able to realise who and what I was.

Statistically, chances are, your child will be straight. But if they do turn out to be gay, bi, whatever, you are risking some serious harm by not preparing them adequately for that possibility. And even if they are straight, they are almost certain to meet gay people during their life, and they have to be prepared to treat those people as they would any other "normal" person.

I teach my children to treat everyone how you want yourself treated. I make sure that I encourage them to make a decision about whether or not they like a person base off how the other person behaves, ie are they mean, friendly, insane, etc. I feel my wife and I have done very well with this, because both my boys have friends that are white, black, latino, etc. I feel that teaching them in this way will also encourage them to treat someone the same whether or not they are gay or straight. Either way, they are human beings, and deserve the according respect.

However, I still do not agree with, nor will I be teaching them about homosexuality, when they come to me about the birds and the bees. If they come to me and ask me about it, then thats different, and I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

Hmmm, interesting. I'm going to teach my kids to LOVE and EMBRACE and RESPECT people, but remember, it's wrong to be straight, black, a woman and left handed. But to LOVE these people and their wrongness, I mean, although they are wrong in who they are, we can still love them for who they are. We can hate who they are and love who they are, because that's LOVE, and it's powerful. Hopefully they don't ask me about these things, but if they do, I'll cross that bridge and discuss it truthfully.

Ok, now you are just being an idiot. Also, you seem to have a problem comprehending what you read, because that certainly isnt what I said. Do not put words in my mouth.

Its also very obvious you do not have kids, and havent a clue how you would handle it. You may THINK you do, but you dont

 

[101flyboy]

My pregnant sister has a 7 year old step-daughter who's in the process of learning about the birds and the bees. I was a little rattled to learn that my sister is only teaching her about hetrosexual relations, saying that it would be 'inappropriate' to tell her about homosexuality at such an early age as the step-daughter might discuss it at school and awkward phone calls from the teachers might follow. Since my sister is in a hetrosexual marriage she argued that it's what her step-daughter encounters on a daily basis, and thus is what she should be taught as the 'norm'.

Do you escapists think that children should be told about homosexuality and homosexual relationships at the same time as they're learning about straight relationships?

Well when I was taught about the birds and the bees, I was learning about how babies were made, not relationships. As far as I know, when a pair of homosexuals have a physical relationship, it doesn't end up producing a baby.

The birds and the bees is inherently discussing relationships. A sexual relationship. Without a sexual relationship, there are no birds or bees.

True, no sex no baby but sex does not equal love. While I would agree that kids should be taught about test tube babies and artificial insemination, what point would there be in adding a blurb saying something along the lines of "Gays are okay and have sex too", when we're teaching kids about the biology part of making a baby?

The whole discussion is about sex. So, if you are teaching kids about sex, just say "when 2 people love each other"............then discuss the fact that a woman and a man come together, and they can have babies. Then say some men and men/women and women come together, and then discuss test tube/IVF/adoption etc, that while two people of the same-sex don't have kids in the same way two people of the opposite sex do, there are plenty of other ways for them to be parents.

I can understand not doing it all at one time, but since it's a reality of life, it needs to be discussed.

Proof that sarcasm on the internet does not work.

OT: I am very much of the opinion that if they ask (where babies come from/what is sex) answer the question asked. So where do babies come from, mummy and daddy bonk and a baby pops out.
What is sex, 2 people love each other they bonk.

I like the word bonk

Oh, you were being sarcastic? Good job! I usually can read it well.

Bonk is a cool word. I prefer fuck though. Although obviously that's not appropriate for kids. I'd probably use boink rather than bonk.

Anyway, I agree that a good course of option is just answer the asked question, but then again, if you're being asked about "where do babies come from," you're by default being asked about sex. If you're being asked about sex, then you're discussing sexuality as well. It's all part of that umbrella, it's hard to separate these intrinsically connected things.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Because if the shoe fits..............

The only one name calling here is you. Go for it, if it makes you happy, but I'm not a bigot, nor would any rational person reading my posts think so.

 

[Azrael the Cat]

I hope you're not male, otherwise YOU FAIL BIOLOGY FOREVER!!

I mean, if you ARE male...please don't tell me that you didn't get erections until 18? Because if you did, I hate to break it to you but there IS something wrong with you. Most of us get erections when aroused from about 11-12 at latest.

Isn't that a pretty good guide for sexual attraction? Obviously you can get an erection without being interested in someone, but as a general principle you get an erection through sexual attraction. How the hell can you get confused about who you get erections around? I mean, it's pretty clear when it happens...

Actually, I know my biology. In truth a man can get erection for both anything and nothing at all without feeling any sexual arousal (it happens on an every day-basis as well). Your argument is null.

It actually isn't null, sorry. Until you actually walk up to someone of your same-sex, ask them out, go to the bedroom, get hard, stay hard, and have sex, you actually do NOT fit the qualifications of someone who is actually attracted to men. Yeah.

The whole "guys can erections from anything" is not relevant to this discussion. We're not talking about one of those fluke hard-ons. We are discussing actual sexual attraction and knowingly being aroused by someone. If you are knowingly aroused by the same-sex, you are not 100% straight. So no, you don't seem to know your biology, or common sense.

Yeah, as I said in my original post, I'm not talking about the ability to get erections outside of attraction - there's one hell of a difference between consistent arousal and just generic body-doing-its-own-thing. In my case, I started getting the urge to masturbate (sorry for the graphicness, but it seemed to go over your head when put more subtley) WELL before dating age - and from other guys I've known that seems pretty standard. As a bisexual guy myself I just can't see a straight kid in his pre-dating years learning how to masturbate while flicking through pictures of guys.

Seriously, did YOU have trouble working out what pictures you wanted to look at while 'experimenting' with yourself in those formative years? Are you seriously telling me it didn't make any difference to your, um, arousal, what gender was in the pics (I'm assuming from your comment that you're hetero)?

Are you seriously telling me that after watching a tv show and finding that you had some strange pleasant feeling in your groin that you hadn't felt before the start of puberty, you didn't have any idea which character it was that made you feel that way? That you just thinking about lovely sunsets and daffodils when you snuck off to the bathroom for some 'alone time' after? You didn't have a particular gender - heck, a particular person - in your mind during those times?

I hate to say it, but if 'yes', I think that's a confusion all of your own. Most of us have a pretty firm idea of what's in our head during those episodes.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

I teach my children to treat everyone how you want yourself treated. I make sure that I encourage them to make a decision about whether or not they like a person base off how the other person behaves, ie are they mean, friendly, insane, etc. I feel my wife and I have done very well with this, because both my boys have friends that are white, black, latino, etc. I feel that teaching them in this way will also encourage them to treat someone the same whether or not they are gay or straight. Either way, they are human beings, and deserve the according respect.

However, I still do not agree with, nor will I be teaching them about homosexuality, when they come to me about the birds and the bees. If they come to me and ask me about it, then thats different, and I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

No, sorry, I'm confused. You're teaching your children that all people ought to be treated equally, yet you're withholding information about homosexuality from them because...? (Also, without meaning to be offensive, I have to add that 'my boys are open-minded because they have black and Latino friends!' is only really one step up from 'I'm not racist because I have black friends'.)

EDIT:

go into detail about a fetish?

Failure.

Way to expand. Purpose of life is to reproduce. Going against that is abnormal. I'm sorry but being a homosexual isn't an identity its just a preference.

I don't plan on reproducing, I plan on adopting. Does this mean I am a failure at life? D:

The comment was a factual statement that related to what I was talking about. I do not teach my children to see anyone else any different, no matter what color they are. I honestly think you are trying to make a point about a point that simply doesnt exist.

 

[Fawcks]

That I can agree with. Lots of 'bisexual' kids running around because it's the cool thing to be this week. My point was just that in my oppinion, information is important when building tolerance. If she doesn't know about gays, they'll always be strange and different. Teach a kid from the start that people are different and like different things, and maybe the social stigma will eventually go away.

Being bisexual is cool?!

Where the HELL have I been!

Anyways, I am 100% behind letting them know about homosexuals whenever they're ready for the sex talks. My niece (4) got into a talk with me about why our two female cats are always grooming each other, then she went on about how they couldn't be boyfriend and girlfriend since they're both girls. It was cute.

DISCLAIMER: I didn't bring up homosexuality or try to explain it to her, she's 4.

There is NOTHING to fear in explaining homosexuality to kids.

Just make sure to tell them furries are also aiiiiight.

 

[101flyboy]

Whether the user meant it or not, I can't help but feel a sort of homophobic vibe from this post. To approach homosexuality in a retroactive fashion only helps the stigma. To make it known that it "isn't right" even though that besides sexual preferences, gays and lesbians are people like everybody else.

Trust me, it's not like that. My sister was a lesbian through the ages 15-17, and even I had my moment.

Furthermore, to say heterosexuality is the norm is like saying that being right-handed is the norm. Sure, their may be more right-handed people than left-handed people, but that doesn't mean left-handed people are abnormal. Like a person's handedness, many forms of sexuality have been around since the beginning.[/spoiler]You don't give a presumed right-handed kid left handed toys and tools, now do you? That's the point I'm trying to prove. Why even open the possibility to them getting to think they are something they are not. I am speaking from my own experience.

Naturally, you shall in no way hush about it should the kids ask about homosexuality at some time, and should attraction to the own gender be shown it shouldn't be shunned.

Yes, heterosexual intercourse is the only way for new life to be born. However, encouraging everybody to do so will only create problems. Whether people believe it or not, the world is overpopulated. With overpopulation comes scarcity in resource (just because it isn't happening to you, does not mean it isn't happening elsewhere). Homosexuals are actually doing the world a grand favor in the long run. They cannot produce new life (in most cases*) and many are willing to give homes and a family to children in need of both.

You have a good point. But as I said, I have nothing against homosexuals. Letting them raise a child is also something I'm not entirely sure off I approve in all cases. A child is a fragile thing, and even though two men or two women may be the most wonderful parents in the world together, society and peers are bound to react on it and treat the kid unfairly. Once again, the problem is not with the actual homosexuals, but with the world.

My point: Yes, we should teach children about homosexuality. We should teach them because at the end of the day sexuality doesn't matter and that we should love our children despite their preferences.

All I'm saying is that they should not be too encouraged. You can see the side effects of that, just as well as I can.

On an unrelated note; I got about 30 quotes on the 2 posts I made in this thread up until now. There was a lot of critique, and an equal amount of praising, sorry for not having the time to address all of you. It would take up important sleep time, and I would just repeat myself.[/quote]


1)Both you and your sister were experimenting with your sexualities, until you found JEEZUS!!!! Is that about accurate?

Or maybe, just maybe, you were experimenting with your sexuality because that's the natural thing to do as a kid, be curious, figuring things out, what you're into and what you aren't. Yeah, it may just be that.

2)You do have something against homosexuals. You wouldn't need to keep saying you don't. You're trying to prove you don't, to yourself more than anyone else probably, and it's not working. You would not need to qualify it if you didn't.

3)The problem "is with the world" is not an excuse for denying a kid a loving home. In those situations, you fix the problem, which is homophobia. Homophobia is the problem. The solution is to educate and rid of homophobia.

4)You're saying homosexuality shouldn't be encouraged, because you DO NOT believe homosexuality is acceptable compared to heterosexuality. Period. Also, sexual orientation isn't a choice, it's a sexual orientation, meaning, an immutable trait.

Just be honest. You think homosexuality is wrong. Yeah, I understand, anti-gays don't like having to wear the label. But, it is what it is.

 

[101flyboy]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Because if the shoe fits..............

The only one name calling here is you. Go for it, if it makes you happy, but I'm not a bigot, nor would any rational person reading my posts think so.

Being anti-gay is wrong and irrational in itself.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Then explain to me how keeping children ignorant helps them in the slightest.
And don't reach for "preserving their innocence" because that is a bullshit copout.

You are doing it again. YOU think that by not teaching a CHILD about homosexuality means you are keeping them ignorant. I disagree. You are trying to set up your beliefs as fact, and they most certainly are not fact for me. You have an opinion, and again I will say that its fine, but it most certainly is NOT fact. You think its keeping a child ignorant, and I think that its something that should be approached either if they ask you about it, or at a much older period in their life.

I will also add that 7 years old is honestly too young to be having the discussion.

Yes, you are keeping your kid ignorant, and you specifically are doing it intentionally so you can indoctrinate your kid into your belief system. It's not even about approaching it later in life with you, it's about telling your kids your own VERSION of reality, instead reality itself. You don't care about the facts, you only care about propagating your religious views. Religion isn't fact, it's a belief system. You want to force your beliefs on others, and that is to the detriment of kids who need a proper education.

Let me correct you there... you say instead of my own version of reality,instead of reality itself. You are not the end all, be all. Therefore, you do not have a right to state what TRUE reality is, only YOUR version of it. As I have stated in my posts that its my opinion. You are entitled to yours, and I am entitled to mine. Dont like it? Fine. Move the hell on, then. I am going to quit responding to your idiotic posts, because your garbage insinuations are started to get me extremely angry. You want to make comments about me? I could give a rats ass. But the minute you start trying to accuse me of wrongly teaching my children, its going to start getting ugly. Quick. Back the hell off.

 

[ziggy161]

I was never taught anything like that till i was in secondary school (14-15)._. my, how times have changed.

 

[101flyboy]

OT: It's a tough call to make. On the one hand, portraying homosexuality on the same plane as heterosexuality is important, imo. On the other hand, the social issues and everything surrounding society's gradual acceptance of homosexuality is a little much for a 7 year old to handle.

I think that I would just teach them the procreation stuff (heterosexual), and leave the rest for later. When you think about it, our society primarily uses sex for recreation (heterosexual and homosexual), but you really don't want to tell a 7 year old "yeah, it's great fun." I would save the sexual orientation discussion for when they're old enough to understand that sex is done for other reasons than making babies.

You don't need to tell a kid about homophobia, that is something that definitely shouldn't be brought up until experienced. Because at that time, a kid is innocent, so you don't want to pollute their mind with hatred. You want them to understand that being accepting is the only positive option.

Homosexuality isn't just for fun. Gay/lesbian people have sex for the same reasons heterosexuals have sex, the only difference IS procreation. And ultimately, if you're discussing procreation, you're discussing relationships. If you're discussing relationships, you're discussing sexuality. Just putting one option on the table is what will confuse kids, when that isn't a reality, and there are two available options.

 

[joshthor]

I think in school it shouldnt be covered. it effects a small minority of the population, and will just confuse kids. if parents want to cover it, more power to them, but otherwise no.

"Some men like men, some men like women"

Can you tell me what is confusing about this statement?

Also, most kids have same-sex thoughts. Or should that be ignored, and we tell kids that there are only ONE option, and that is heterosexuality, although most people are not 100% straight?

I think in school it shouldnt be covered. it effects a small minority of the population, and will just confuse kids. if parents want to cover it, more power to them, but otherwise no.

"Some men like men, some men like women"

Can you tell me what is confusing about this statement?

Also, most kids have same-sex thoughts. Or should that be ignored, and we tell kids that there are only ONE option, and that is heterosexuality, although most people are not 100% straight?

I dont beleive that for a second. however, i dont believe kids have only one option, heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality are thier choice. however, kids will discover this stuff on their own. sex ed teaches about the anatomy of both men and women, and sex itself. it doesnt need to go into specifics about orientation.

 

[101flyboy]

So? I find a lot of words offensive, but I don't act like a diva and ask everyone to stop using them. There are too many opinions in this world to satisfy everyone.

Gasp.. A white, straight boy comparing his experience of being insulted with that of other people.. I never saw that coming!

It's more of a philosophy than anything else. If people were less stuck up about things the world would be a much better place

AND DON'T DARE CALL ME WHITE
That is both unsensitive and misleading [small]It's actually more like beige[/small]

Spoiler: THE CONFESSION

Anyway, if it feels like you can identify more with me, I was bullied through entire elementary school

You were bullied, yet you're anti-gay, and calling people stuck up because they ask not to be disrespected. One would think you would have learned.

 

[The Hairminator]

You were bullied, yet you're anti-gay, and calling people stuck up because they ask not to be disrespected. One would think you would have learned.

Easy, tiger. First, I'm not anti-gay. And second, that matter got cleared up. You'll be happy to read I made peace with that at least 6 pages away.

Please read before you answer.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Why? take gender out of it and teach basic sexuality IE some people love other people, ggaaa humanity is to caught up on gender roles and specs....

 

[CarlMin]

About time says I.