Teen Arrested for Home-Made "Hot or Not" List on Facebook

zeldagirl

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pokepuke said:
Even expelling him was going too far. I'm sure the police are thinking "this is why I went to the academy", but maybe also thinking it is another day they can avoid being shot at.
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zeldagirl said:
That's awfully naive, and if I were a victim of his prank, it certainly wouldn't be a laughing matter to me after a few years. This is sexual harassment, and that has a way of staying with you.
Yeah, but you seem unusually stuck up, so you're not the norm here.

As a lady of this thread, I've already said what I think - it's sexual harassment, plain and simple. It's hurtful and demeaning, and I'm hurt and demeaned even as someone who is only a bystander and not actually involved. It pains me to see boys do this to girls.

Though, I'm sorry, may I ask - if I think it's wrong, does that invalidate my opinion?


For the record, I spell women with an e, because etymologically that is correct (wo is the feminine prefix). I also consider myself a feminist - I want women to be treated with respect.
Hmm, feminist? not really. If you were, you'd be for equality, not holding one group on a pedestal. You also seem to fallaciously think that you matter here; your anecdotes or viewpoints are irrelevant. Why not just as "a person of this thread"? Your name is even overly telling of your pretentious nature. Try coming back down to earth.

Lol. Where am I not for equality? I have said multiple times, this sort of behavior is unacceptable REGARDLESS OF THE GENDER of the person doing it. I'm not holding women up on a pedestal, I'm trying to defend my gender from the constant attacks that we are "oversensitive" or that we should allow men to sexually harass us.

My name is the same name I have at another forum that I've had since I was 10 years old. I like it, and it has meaning to me, so I use it on the internet. But thank you for letting me know it was pretentious. And thank you further for letting me know that my opinion is not valid, because "I'm not in the norm" of women who agree with YOU. And again, further, sorry - how dare I think that I, a woman (who was asked for her opinion) matter here?

Really, dude? Sexism isn't cool.
 

JoeThree

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zeldagirl said:
JoeThree said:
zeldagirl said:
JoeThree said:
Seriously, this is just stupid. High schoolers will be high schoolers, in a few months most of those girls will look back on this list and laugh, and in years, probably remember it fondly through rose-colored glasses. This kid, however, is going to have his life fucked for something that seems fresh out of an American Pie sequel.
Anyone who thinks this is anything serious needs to get out of their parent's basement and go talk to a real life girl who isn't some raging fem, they'll tell you it's dumb and roll their eyes. Actually, I'm curious what the ladies in this thread think, and where you tend to fall on other issues of gender equality, if you think he should be severely punished. How many people calling for his beheading also spell "women" with a "Y"? Or is that sexist to only ask the women? =X

One last thing, anyone who doesn't think that girls do this shit all the time is a retard. And, how many of you were morally outraged by that South Park episode where the school's girl made a list like this of the boys? I mean, clearly, that's like making light of the holocaust.
That's awfully naive, and if I were a victim of his prank, it certainly wouldn't be a laughing matter to me after a few years. This is sexual harassment, and that has a way of staying with you.


As a lady of this thread, I've already said what I think - it's sexual harassment, plain and simple. It's hurtful and demeaning, and I'm hurt and demeaned even as someone who is only a bystander and not actually involved. It pains me to see boys do this to girls.

Though, I'm sorry, may I ask - if I think it's wrong, does that invalidate my opinion?


For the record, I spell women with an e, because etymologically that is correct (wo is the feminine prefix). I also consider myself a feminist - I want women to be treated with respect.

You're right, girls are capable of doing this. And that is wrong. But those wrongs does not make THIS right.


EDIT: wonky quotations.
You being offended should not be a reason for another person to be incarcerated.

And would you be as offended by a girl doing this? I'm not saying a wrong makes a right, I think in both cases it's just stupid high school crap, but would you have been as offended if this was a woman doing this to men?
You're right, me being offended isn't enough for another person to be incarcerated, or even just having charges filed against them.

Sexual harassment is, though. And that's what *this is*. You don't think that sexually harassing you women is okay, do you?

And yes, as I ALREADY said, I would be offended if a girl did this. I was outraged when the woman at Duke pulled this stunt. It doesn't make it right. Like I said. Before.
I'm not in favor of sexual harrassment, but as a man who's spent about 7 years studying law, I don't think this qualifies. In no way is anyone being coerced, bullied into sexual acts, or propsitioned. This is kids being kids, plain and simple.

For the record though, anyone who bashes you for liking Zelda is a moron.
 

PhiMed

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zeldagirl said:
PhiMed said:
I don't buy it. You say that the entire system is designed out of a hatred for or fear of femininity, but there are stigmas against women who are perceived to be too masculine, as well. How does this fit into your model?

Yes, the woman is often judged for making a poor sexual decision while in high school. Men are, sometimes, as well. For the sake of brevity I'll admit that at the age we're discussing it is the exception rather than the rule. Until men are able to carry children, this will probably continue to be the case.

In primate social structures, the male is, generally speaking, the one who does all the posturing, and the female makes the selection. This is why most primates have a polygamous structure where a few males have sex with many females. This is the evolutionary stuff from which we have sprung. Our brains have been hard wired by tens of thousands of years of evolution to view a male who has sex as being successful in being selected, and viewing a female who has sex as having made her choice. Women who sleep with idiots or sleep with multiple guys not only come off as a bit indecisive, but as failing to understand or properly utilize the power they wield. Women have the sexual power in society, not men.

That's right. I said women wield the sexual power in Western society. Think I'm being silly? When people say, "sex sells", to which gender's form are they usually referring? If you think of a woman's sexuality as a night club, which club is more prestigious, the club that lets everyone in without a cover, or the one with an exclusive guest list? Following this analogy, who is perceived as cooler, the club goer who is denied admission to even moderately exclusive clubs, or the one who comes and goes as they please? Even then, though, that person's "coolness" is defined by someone else's choice. That someone else being the owner of the "club".

Women are able not only to define their own social status through their actions, but the status of men. That's power. Feminism seeks to destroy that power, and I think that's irrational.
I would say that women who are masculine are stigmatized because they SHOULDN'T be masculine according to society - only men can be masculine, because masculine in the 'stronger' of the two. I think it actually fits quite nicely into that model.

As to your second point, that is an example of inequality. "Until men are able to have children this will be the case." Don't you see the inherent unfairness? So far, it seems like you've actually kind of supported my points.

Sorry, your nightclub example is bunk (in that it makes no context after the sentence you've placed it, and it's wrong). But let's roll with it for a second. You seem to forget the notion that unfortunately, many women have people who try to "infiltrate" their nightclub - men get grabby, can harass, even coerce for 'admission.' The fact that rape happens to women far more often than men hampers this argument. While rape is NOT ALWAYS about sex, you discount the fact that there are people who will try to gain admission to the nightclub any way they can, and the owner's pain and expense. But, like I said, I think it's a weak example.

I do want to talk about something else though. You mentioned 'selling sex'? Yes, let's look at that. Take the ad industry, where female sexuality 'sells' only after their bodies have been photoshopped to hell so that women are constantly faced with an onslaught of images of 'perfect' female sexuality which really no woman can attain. Let's talk about the ad images that portray women as sex objects for men - here are some photos:

http://bit.ly/mEhVF5

http://bit.ly/mtK9GK

Sex sells, but it mostly sells when it's a woman suggestively servicing a man. The fact is, women's sexuality sells at the EXPENSE of women; it's not a positive thing. It's not empowering to see only ads of sexualized women playing into false stereotypes.

If you really want to boil it down, your last statement, "Women are able not only to define their own social status through their actions, but the status of men. That's power. Feminism seeks to destroy that power, and I think that's irrational," is wrong. Women aren't defining their own social status in that way, and they don't through the status of men, either. I'm sorry you think that is the world we live in, but it's just not true. That's not power or agency.
Well, then. Isn't it nice that women in Western society almost always receive sympathy, not derision, when they are raped? It's true. In a case of he said/she said, the accuser is protected while the accused is not.

I'm not delusional. I know that rape occurs, and that women are often coerced. Rape is unconscionable, but coercion is something I'm having a little trouble getting too outraged about. People coerce others to do all sorts of things that are harmful to them, and we blame the person who succumbs to it in almost all cases. There are all sorts of names for people who succumb to coercion outside of sexual behavior: "Sucker", "dope", "rube", "mark". Why, when it comes to sexual coercion, must the label suddenly switch to "victim"?

I don't really understand your point about status, though. You seem to be awfully selective about what does and does not constitute a choice, and what does and does not define status. You state that men who sleep with a lot of women are praised, but then you say that the women they sleep with have no part in defining that status. Are you suggesting that every man who has ever slept with a lot of women is a serial rapist? That's a big claim, and stating that women don't have some role in defining... whatever label you think is positive for "man whore"... requires a level of mental acrobatics that I'm just not up for right now.
 

GoGrapefruit

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Andy Chalk said:
According to reports, after distributing the list at his former school the student addressed an "impromptu gathering" of cheering students, during which he danced around and warned that "women are the future, unless we stop them now."
Ok I lol'd
 
Apr 6, 2009
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What happened to the old days of solving our own problems (i.e. kicking the crap out of the douche who insults your daughter behind a dark alley) instead running to the police? I understand where the parents are coming from, but come on, you seriously needed to involve law enforcement?
 

JPArbiter

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question? while there was no doubt this kid was a dirtbag, did he deserve to get expelled, and did he in point of fact do anything illegal? again, if anything this is better suited for civil court.
 

Shoggoth2588

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Like The Prince, this would be far funnier if so many people didn't take it so seriously. Maybe he should have posted the list on a different website though? I mean, Facebook doesn't even have a 'dislike' feature which is a strong indicator that it wants to be a positive force of some kind.
 

OhSnap

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Well, I wouldn't get offended over something like this, but I could understand why some people would. Teenage girls, especially in high school, tend to be oversensitive and care about their reputations. I'm not saying that a bad reputation based on behaviour isn't deserved, but passing out a list like that at school is just not the best idea I've come across. The kid really doesn't deserve legal action taken though, an expulsion was plenty.
 

zeldagirl

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PhiMed said:
Well, then. Isn't it nice that women in Western society almost always receive sympathy, not derision, when they are raped? It's true. In a case of he said/she said, the accuser is protected while the accused is not.

I'm not delusional. I know that rape occurs, and that women are often coerced. Rape is unconscionable, but coercion is something I'm having a little trouble getting too outraged about. People coerce others to do all sorts of things that are harmful to them, and we blame the person who succumbs to it in almost all cases. There are all sorts of names for people who succumb to coercion outside of sexual behavior: "Sucker", "dope", "rube", "mark". Why, when it comes to sexual coercion, must the label suddenly switch to "victim"?

I don't really understand your point about status, though. You seem to be awfully selective about what does and does not constitute a choice, and what does and does not define status. You state that men who sleep with a lot of women are praised, but then you say that the women they sleep with have no part in defining that status. Are you suggesting that every man who has ever slept with a lot of women is a serial rapist? That's a big claim, and stating that women don't have some role in defining... whatever label you think is positive for "man whore"... requires a level of mental acrobatics that I'm just not up for right now.

What are you talking about? I'm glad you live in a society where that is the case, but as a survivor of sexual assault, let me tell you, more times than not the accuser is NOT protected. The accuser has the burden of proof, and is NOT at all more likely to be believed! Well, now, no wonder we are at such an impasse. I don't say this to be mean, but we literally live in completely different worlds, and I really don't think you have ever had to experience that, or know what it's like to not be believed when you say someone has sexually assaulted you. :( Oh goodness; I guess I realize why you think this now, but please - that is actually a false. Things have gotten a lot better, but it is still very difficult for women who accuse men of rape to be taken seriously in this society.

For the record, I actually don't like the term victim, so I'll agree with you on that one.


I apologize for not being clear. My point is, women who sleep with a lot of men are not valued in the same way that men are. I'm not suggesting men are serial rapists, and I have no idea what you are trying to get at. Perhaps I misunderstood your point before - it appears you are talking about women defining the sexual status of men. I thought you were only talking about women's sexual status, so I apologize for that. I was under the impression we had moved on from talking about men's sexual status.

So, you're saying that women define men's social status through sex? That, if a man sleeps with a desirable woman, she has the power to raise his social status? Is that what you are getting at? I want to be clear before I answer.
 

Icehearted

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Girls used to do this when I was a kid... they called it a Slam Book. Nobody was arrested. Typical.
 

Caffeinated

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Mar 14, 2009
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death by hanging
because the look on his face as he walks to the gallows will be pure lulz

but in all seriousness, whatever happened to honour; this boy deserves at least some form of corporal punishment or to be put in a chain gang till he starts sounding like Morgan Freeman.
 

zeldagirl

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JoeThree said:
I'm not in favor of sexual harrassment, but as a man who's spent about 7 years studying law, I don't think this qualifies. In no way is anyone being coerced, bullied into sexual acts, or propsitioned. This is kids being kids, plain and simple.

For the record though, anyone who bashes you for liking Zelda is a moron.
I was under the impression that sexual harassment, in school, is more along the lines of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment_in_education

"Sexual harassment in education is an unwelcome behavior of a sexual nature that interferes with a student?s ability to learn, study, work or participate in school activities. Sexual harassment involves a range of behavior from mild annoyances to sexual assault and rape."

I would definitely say he falls under this definition of sexual harassment - it's behavior of a sexual nature that will affect how these girls are treated and participate in their school.


And thank you, Zelda is awesome. :)
 

GeorgW

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Aug 27, 2010
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Boys will be boys.
So don't arrest them for it!!
Sure that's not really okay, but still, it's just a stupid high school prank. This is ridiculous.
Oh, and does anybody know where to find that list? It sounds like a hilarious read!
 

PhiMed

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Nov 26, 2008
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zeldagirl said:
PhiMed said:
Well, then. Isn't it nice that women in Western society almost always receive sympathy, not derision, when they are raped? It's true. In a case of he said/she said, the accuser is protected while the accused is not.

I'm not delusional. I know that rape occurs, and that women are often coerced. Rape is unconscionable, but coercion is something I'm having a little trouble getting too outraged about. People coerce others to do all sorts of things that are harmful to them, and we blame the person who succumbs to it in almost all cases. There are all sorts of names for people who succumb to coercion outside of sexual behavior: "Sucker", "dope", "rube", "mark". Why, when it comes to sexual coercion, must the label suddenly switch to "victim"?

I don't really understand your point about status, though. You seem to be awfully selective about what does and does not constitute a choice, and what does and does not define status. You state that men who sleep with a lot of women are praised, but then you say that the women they sleep with have no part in defining that status. Are you suggesting that every man who has ever slept with a lot of women is a serial rapist? That's a big claim, and stating that women don't have some role in defining... whatever label you think is positive for "man whore"... requires a level of mental acrobatics that I'm just not up for right now.

What are you talking about? I'm glad you live in a society where that is the case, but as a survivor of sexual assault, let me tell you, more times than not the accuser is NOT protected. The accuser has the burden of proof, and is NOT at all more likely to be believed! Well, now, no wonder we are at such an impasse. I don't say this to be mean, but we literally live in completely different worlds, and I really don't think you have ever had to experience that, or know what it's like to not be believed when you say someone has sexually assaulted you. :( Oh goodness; I guess I realize why you think this now, but please - that is actually a false. Things have gotten a lot better, but it is still very difficult for women who accuse men of rape to be taken seriously in this society.

For the record, I actually don't like the term victim, so I'll agree with you on that one.


I apologize for not being clear. My point is, women who sleep with a lot of men are not valued in the same way that men are. I'm not suggesting men are serial rapists, and I have no idea what you are trying to get at. Perhaps I misunderstood your point before - it appears you are talking about women defining the sexual status of men. I thought you were only talking about women's sexual status, so I apologize for that. I was under the impression we had moved on from talking about men's sexual status.

So, you're saying that women define men's social status through sex? That, if a man sleeps with a desirable woman, she has the power to raise his social status? Is that what you are getting at? I want to be clear before I answer.
A desirable woman choosing a man absolutely increases his social status. If you're going to harp about "trophies", let me stop you there. Trophies don't have the ability to leave, and they don't have the ability to award themselves to other competitors. "Cuckold" is an insult for a reason. Women are able to define a man's social status through their behavior.
 

Desert Tiger

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Something tells me if the genders were flipped and girl was doing this about guys, suddenly things would be different...
 

zeldagirl

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PhiMed said:
A desirable woman choosing a man absolutely increases his social status. If you're going to harp about "trophies", let me stop you there. Trophies don't have the ability to leave, and they don't have the ability to award themselves to other competitors. "Cuckold" is an insult for a reason. Women are able to define a man's social status through their behavior.

All right, I see where you are getting at, and it would be a valid point...if it took her perspective into consideration. You're absolutely right that this might be the case, that men might get some kind of social standing through sleeping with a certain woman. But, why does she sleep with him? You can't talk about her getting power out of that interaction unless we know what's going on from her perspective. So, I can see where you are getting at, but that's a gray area. She might be raising the man's social status, but if it's coming from a place of weakness from her, you couldn't really call it empowering, could you?


And let's move to another point: it's possible for men to use women's sexuality to raise their social status...without women knowing. This is experiential, but I did have a friend who was very upset that a supposed male friend of hers told every he slept with her...even though he didn't. She could say she didn't sleep with him till the cows came home, but his friends didn't believe her...they believed him. So, even in that case, I would make the argument that more often than not, a woman's sexuality can be used to increase a man's social power without any benefit (and actually even at a cost) to her.


EDIT: just being able to affect a man's (temporary) social status isn't real power. There's no agency in it for the woman, necessarily. That's key.
 

JaceArveduin

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zehydra said:
JaceArveduin said:
umm... are you saying Watson was right in this article?
Depends on your definition of "right" in all honesty. But yes, I'm inclined to believe that at least some of the information he used was pulled from reliable sources, a VG Cats comic comes to mind, I just can't be bothered finding it. But let's just say first hand experience probably played a role in the creation of this list.

But hey, what do I know? All of these parents know exactly what their little angels do and also know they would never participate in such hideous acts.

edit, it just sent me to the code of conduct, so ill assume that means ive been warned for soemthing, probably one of these posts
 

Cousin_IT

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Feb 6, 2008
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Ironic that facebook is used to bust a guy making a hot or not list, since that's what the site originated from.