I wrote a huuuuge post...so I broke it up into spoiler tags to break it up and hopefully make it digestible.
To those of you saying that this is no big deal:
That is poetic justice in a sense-the one who objectified is now being objectified - but I disagree with that as a proper solution. He is not going to learn that objectifying women is wrong from this, unless by some miracle the police are willing to recognize the true problem and teach the kid some compassion.
Call me embittered and jaded, but I doubt that's going to happen.
This case is-terrible. The punishment does not fit the crime. Even the expulsion doesn't change anything. It tells him that it was wrong - but he is human, and lacking a compelling moral reason why, that will not affect any change.
Sigh. The entire situation is awful. All I can hope is that we can all collectively look at this and learn-that the teachers of this school will look at this incident and try to instill better values by leading by example-that maybe someone will look at this and reflect upon themselves and think about the morality of objectifying, and what it means to take someone's humanity away from them-that the courts will look at this case and, instead of dismissing the kid as just a kid, instead of looking at the kid as a criminal, see the true problem here and, god willing, find some way to teach him why.
I may as well be shouting in the middle of a desert, for the likelihood anyone will read this whole thing; goes double for anyone actually getting anything out of this. But for that one person in the middle of the desert with an open mind, here it is.
Apologies for the odd ? floating around, the transition from word to forum post is not always smooth.
To those of you saying that this is no big deal:
I suppose you could argue survival of the fittest. There are times when I'm inclined to agree, but this is not one. There is no question that what he did was wrong. I also don't like the idea of someone saying "this person was weak because s/he killed him/herself because someone insulted him/her." Anyone who says that doesn't understand there are deeper problems at work, more than just the one insult.
And...anyone who says that doesn't know - or perhaps has forgotten, or become wrathful instead of compassionate - what it's like to be alone, isolated. It's a terrible feeling, one that no one deserves to feel, and definitely not while in the awful cesspit that is so much of middle/high school. One that's, unfortunately, not always endurable.
And...anyone who says that doesn't know - or perhaps has forgotten, or become wrathful instead of compassionate - what it's like to be alone, isolated. It's a terrible feeling, one that no one deserves to feel, and definitely not while in the awful cesspit that is so much of middle/high school. One that's, unfortunately, not always endurable.
In addition to what I said about those people not knowing what it's like to be alone, I'd like to argue this from a purely beneficial-to-society view: the woman that lost confidence in herself may now never make to society the contribution that she may have made before. All for a cheap laugh. So all I have to ask about that is?
Hell, even to RISK that outcome, is it worth it?
You might argue that people need to be hardened, to grow a thick skin, and certainly with the realities of the world it helps. It's especially crucial when dealing with constructive criticism, because without that thick skin you will not grow from it. However, this is not constructive. No one was bettered by this experience-- the perpetrator of the list included. The women were not bettered by this list in any way, they were publically humiliated, and there's no one that grows in a good way due to that. The list-maker was positively reinforced for objectifying and publically humiliating women, which only reinforces the ideas he very obviously has about women. Now he is going to be tried, and worst-case scenario he is going to go to jail, to be not only objectified but subjected to the dehumanization reserved for those we determine have violated laws enough to be removed from society. Even if he doesn't go to jail, which I hope he doesn't, he still has this three-month (?) ? not sure if it's three months, but a length of time nonetheless - where police are poking their noses into his business, treating him as a criminal.
You might argue that people need to be hardened, to grow a thick skin, and certainly with the realities of the world it helps. It's especially crucial when dealing with constructive criticism, because without that thick skin you will not grow from it. However, this is not constructive. No one was bettered by this experience-- the perpetrator of the list included. The women were not bettered by this list in any way, they were publically humiliated, and there's no one that grows in a good way due to that. The list-maker was positively reinforced for objectifying and publically humiliating women, which only reinforces the ideas he very obviously has about women. Now he is going to be tried, and worst-case scenario he is going to go to jail, to be not only objectified but subjected to the dehumanization reserved for those we determine have violated laws enough to be removed from society. Even if he doesn't go to jail, which I hope he doesn't, he still has this three-month (?) ? not sure if it's three months, but a length of time nonetheless - where police are poking their noses into his business, treating him as a criminal.
That is poetic justice in a sense-the one who objectified is now being objectified - but I disagree with that as a proper solution. He is not going to learn that objectifying women is wrong from this, unless by some miracle the police are willing to recognize the true problem and teach the kid some compassion.
Call me embittered and jaded, but I doubt that's going to happen.
I'm actually rather sad the school expelled him-they had the chance to do some real good. Although they obviously failed in some way because this still happened in the first place. If they could have taught him why it's so wrong to objectify women, why it's so wrong to reduce a person to a scale of numbers, and then had him make amends-that would have been true progress. This would not only have changed him, but those assholes that cheered him for this list.
The arrest upsets me, not because it's a gross overreaction, but because it doesn't fix anything. There's obviously an underlying problem - not just in this school but in this damn topic too - that, in society's subconscious, it's still okay to treat women as less than men.
It's not okay to treat anyone as less than anyone.
The arrest upsets me, not because it's a gross overreaction, but because it doesn't fix anything. There's obviously an underlying problem - not just in this school but in this damn topic too - that, in society's subconscious, it's still okay to treat women as less than men.
It's not okay to treat anyone as less than anyone.
This case is-terrible. The punishment does not fit the crime. Even the expulsion doesn't change anything. It tells him that it was wrong - but he is human, and lacking a compelling moral reason why, that will not affect any change.
Sigh. The entire situation is awful. All I can hope is that we can all collectively look at this and learn-that the teachers of this school will look at this incident and try to instill better values by leading by example-that maybe someone will look at this and reflect upon themselves and think about the morality of objectifying, and what it means to take someone's humanity away from them-that the courts will look at this case and, instead of dismissing the kid as just a kid, instead of looking at the kid as a criminal, see the true problem here and, god willing, find some way to teach him why.
I may as well be shouting in the middle of a desert, for the likelihood anyone will read this whole thing; goes double for anyone actually getting anything out of this. But for that one person in the middle of the desert with an open mind, here it is.
I don't know where you people get the idea that everyone goes about systematically making a list ranking people based purely on superficial features. Anyone that goes through that sort of effort, I'd seriously consider recommending them see some sort of psychologist. I'd like to see this kid put into some sort of counseling. Maybe then he'd be taught something. Sorry, wandered from my point. I've never really ranked anyone beyond "ooh, he looks nice" or "man, she's kinda hot". And yes, I've been through high school. Knowing people from every "clique"?every person deserves to be treated as a person.
And?yes. That?sometimes becomes troublesome when searching for porn, I admit. ._. The whole "you objectify people to jerk off to them" point?yeah. No fun.
No, I don't think this would be more okay if it was a woman who had published a list about 50 men. Men can have their feelings hurt just as much as women, even if society conditions them to hide it better. An athletic, beautiful, talented, honor-student man is to be mourned as much as an equivalent woman if, for some reason, they are dehumanized for a cheap laugh.
Final note. Someone that just criticized others for spending ridiculous amount of time on a list based on superficial appearances just spend a ridiculous amount of time making a forum post. I am aware, yes, thank you.
And?yes. That?sometimes becomes troublesome when searching for porn, I admit. ._. The whole "you objectify people to jerk off to them" point?yeah. No fun.
No, I don't think this would be more okay if it was a woman who had published a list about 50 men. Men can have their feelings hurt just as much as women, even if society conditions them to hide it better. An athletic, beautiful, talented, honor-student man is to be mourned as much as an equivalent woman if, for some reason, they are dehumanized for a cheap laugh.
Final note. Someone that just criticized others for spending ridiculous amount of time on a list based on superficial appearances just spend a ridiculous amount of time making a forum post. I am aware, yes, thank you.
Apologies for the odd ? floating around, the transition from word to forum post is not always smooth.
