Teenage Male Gamers No Longer Biggest Demographic

[neokiva]

Who cares if they don't take into account casual versus hardcore? Fuck hardcore. Hardcore people insult you when you ask for tips on dark souls. Hardcore people laugh in your face when you say you can't build your own PC. Hardcore people sling sexist remarks day in and day out with bullshit justification for it.

I play games all the time. That said, I also use cheats or make the games easier where possible. I consider myself casual even though I follow industry news and frequent forums like these. Mostly because I play games more for fun than gamerscore. But also because hardcore people (at least the people who identify as hardcore) seem to be as hateful and exclusionary as possible. And not just because you're not playing a game "correctly" (read: how they would play), but because if you're a woman you're apparently just gaming because you want attention and gaming is the popular thing now so you're doing it to be popular even though you once bullied this douche in school. At least he remembers how he was rejected in school and now he's just afraid of all women. Not all hardcores are like this, but I bet most who do this are.

Then there's the hate thrown at anyone who even espouses that there might be something sexist about some games. Look, I haven't seen anita sarkeesian's videos yet, so I don't know how crappy her claims are. But they could be the worst in the world and for me, it wouldn't matter. Not one bit. Because the sheer backlash and hate and anger that I saw from people, including kitchen jokes, death threats, rape threats, and a flash game where you beat the shit out of her, told me everything I need to know. No matter how bad someone's claims of sexism in gaming are, the audience on the side of gaming can be so much worse that it doesn't even matter. That is why I refuse to identify as "Hardcore".

Ok right there stop first off everyone who is bad at games gets ripped on it's not just women and any gendered insults are just used because it's easy. second Anita sarkeesian is a liar, a thief and a con artist. her videos are filled with stolen let's play footage without credit, her entire plug for this series she does was disingenuous and a bare faced lie she is not a gamer in fact the very idea of playing games repulsed her (which she states in another of her videos, you can't make this shit up). everything she says is out of context, she falsified the evidence on the hitman absolution game you know where she says the game encourages you to kill those strippers (and which no gamer ever does) and in that same video the moment she does it the game deducts points from her. she is the worst because of these things not because of what is in between her legs. and those so called harmful comments were all obvious trolls and she used it to perpetuate a victim complex and i found it funny when a news caster interviewing her called sarkeesian out "have you ever heard of don't feed the trolls" you should have seen sarkeesian's face when she was asked that. that flash game was out of line and she got an apology because of it.

and as for rape, death threats and the like feminists are just as bad at saying that shit as well.

 

[DOOM GUY]

snip

Women are playing videogames, yes, but they've always played videogames, they've just never been as popular with women. I used quotes when I said "real" games, 'cause, well, they're all games, it's just the "real" games are, for lack of a better term, the more hardcore games, which have much of same audience as before, and are the real meat of the industry. Are more women playing them than before, absolutely, but when you factor in mobile games too, you'll get a much larger number than without them, and the article itself had even said "The spike in the number female gamers is likely tied to widespread smartphone adoption"

It's not a bad thing, it's just that this has very little impact on anything other than maybe mobile games. I wouldn't go as far as saying they're "fake gamer girls" either, they're just women who like to play games on their mobile device, but don't care about the gaming industry.

 

[neokiva]

Why is it so hard a acknowledge?
Women like to play videogames, too? As much as Men do. For some parts just different gengres?
Are the boys afraid that their FIFA and COD will go away and be replaced by a AAA angry bird?

The only thing that may change is, that we get more lara crofts or ellies: More greatly written female leads and supports for games. And less sexist crap. CoD won't die because of female gamers.

Instead of saying: "No! they are not real gamers" one good reaction would be: "Cool. More folks to play videogames with. You wanny play?"

can i just point out that companies will always go for the low hanging fruit, the one that makes them the most money the easiest and cheapest way. so the fear is well justified especially when you look at how ea and other companies are ripping people off in the free to play genre (too bad there are good and fair free to play games)
while women playing games is always a good thing I'd prefer it if they played the games with more than a token effort put into making them.

 

[Timpossible]

snip

Women are playing videogames, yes, but they've always played videogames, they've just never been as popular with women. I used quotes when I said "real" games, 'cause, well, they're all games, it's just the "real" games are, for lack of a better term, the more hardcore games, which have much of same audience as before. Are more women playing them than before, absolutely, but when you factor in mobile games too, you'll get a much larger number than without them, and the article itself had even said "The spike in the number female gamers is likely tied to widespread smartphone adoption"

It's not a bad thing, it's just that this has very little impact on anything other than maybe mobile games.

I have to disgaree on your definition of "real" games.
And your point of "they same audiance as before" is simply not true. The average gamer is much older for example.
My pointt is: Why don't just be happy about women joining the gaming-culture. Why always insist of saying/adding: "But it's still a boys club!!" Yes. In the "biggest" gengres women are still in the minority. But it is chaning. And I for my part think it is good.

can i just point out that companies will always go for the low hanging fruit, the one that makes them the most money the easiest and cheapest way. so the fear is well justified especially when you look at how ea and other companies are ripping people off in the free to play genre (too bad there are good and fair free to play games)
while women playing games is always a good thing I'd prefer it if they played the games with more than a token effort put into making them.

If you were right games like the last of us wouldn't happen. Witcher 3 would not happen. Even IF EA and Ubisoft think it would be a good idea to make a AAA-Angry Bird...Big Storydriven Games won't die. Big Multiplayer-Shooters won't die. And to you last sentence: They do. You want people to join you? Open your arms and don't be always so annoyingly cynical and suspicious about them.

 

[neokiva]

snip

Women are playing videogames, yes, but they've always played videogames, they've just never been as popular with women. I used quotes when I said "real" games, 'cause, well, they're all games, it's just the "real" games are, for lack of a better term, the more hardcore games, which have much of same audience as before. Are more women playing them than before, absolutely, but when you factor in mobile games too, you'll get a much larger number than without them, and the article itself had even said "The spike in the number female gamers is likely tied to widespread smartphone adoption"

It's not a bad thing, it's just that this has very little impact on anything other than maybe mobile games.

I have to disgaree on your definition of "real" games.
And your point of "they same audiance as before" is simply not true. The average gamer is much older for example.
My pointt is: Why don't just be happy about women joining the gaming-culture. Why always insist of saying/adding: "But it's still a boys club!!" Yes. In the "biggest" gengres women are still in the minority. But it is chaning. And I for my part think it is good.

can i just point out that companies will always go for the low hanging fruit, the one that makes them the most money the easiest and cheapest way. so the fear is well justified especially when you look at how ea and other companies are ripping people off in the free to play genre (too bad there are good and fair free to play games)
while women playing games is always a good thing I'd prefer it if they played the games with more than a token effort put into making them.

If you were right games like the last of us wouldn't happen. Witcher 3 would not happen. Even IF EA and Ubisoft think it would be a good idea to make a AAA-Angry Bird...Big Storydriven Games won't die. Big Multiplayer-Shooters won't die. And to you last sentence: They do. You want people to join you? Open your arms and don't be always so annoyingly cynical and suspicious about them.

The thing is I am open armed with female gamers all come and join the gamer community I welcome all peoples, as for being cynical. I'm always cynical and critical of everything it's just the way I am.

 

[DOOM GUY]

snip

Which is why I use quotes, it's just pointing out that they're the what much of the industry focuses on, and they do have much of the same audience, though of course many of the people who grew up on those games are still playing them too, which does increase the average age of those playing.

I'm not insisting that gaming is an exclusive club either, I've never made that point, I just believe it's silly to include those who only (and the keyword is only) play mobile games in the primary demographics, because they're really not.

 

[Timpossible]

The thing is I am open armed with female gamers all come and join the gamer community I welcome all peoples, as for being cynical. I'm always cynical and critical of everything it's just the way I am.

Okay. Than this is settled. Good to hear that you think that way about females in games. About the cynisism: I thought so once, too. Believe me. You miss out on a lot of good feelings if you think everything just needs to have something fishy about it.

snip

Which is why I use quotes, it's just pointing out that they're the what much of the industry focuses on, and they do have much of the same audience, though of course many of the people who grew up on those games are still playing them too, which does increase the average age of those playing.
I'm not insisting that gaming is an exclusive club either, I've never made that point, I just believe it's silly to include those who only (and the keyword is only) play mobile games in the primary demographics, because they're really not.

No. I think you got me wrong. Didn't want to say that you think gaming is or should be exclusive. I wanted to say that I think it is annoyingly cynical to always add: "But remember the fact, that girls are still a minority in gaming".

And the companies don't include those in ther primary demographic. That is one of the problem: The Primary Demographic for game-comapnies seems still to be 14-18 year old boys. Not the 10(FPS)-45(RPG) percent women or adult men. But this also starts to change.

Buuuut to be fair: Yes I see the point of the study beeing too general what "main demographic in gaming". I give you that. Fair point.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Calling out the obvious disconnect between the numbers of these statistics and their relevance when being applied to debates of representation? Oh lol you probably just hate women.

Really saying that is just trying to shut down discussion before it even begins. Saying that most of these adult women are playing mobile games is not some desperate attempt to pretend women don't exist. Its fact. Saying that it has relevance when it comes to the current discussions about triple A games is intellectually dishonest. Trying to paint either of these things as misogyny is just plain sad. Stop being dishonest ON PURPOSE to prove a point and people will stop calling you out on it. I mean really. The facts are out there. Most of the women are literally playing Candy Crush on their phones. There is nothing wrong with that. Its a great thing and a testament of how people are starting to become more accepting of video games in general. It just has no bearing on what people are trying to apply it to.

 

[Genocidicles]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/female-adults-oust-teenage-boys-largest-gaming-demographic/

The schadenfreude here is so sweet. And I am glad there are going to be whiny male gamers crying into their soup over this.

The 21st century is here. Get on board or get out of the way.

So because more women are playing mobile games, more console and PC games should pander to them?

It doesn't work that way buddy.

 

[GabeZhul]

Okay, here's a little thought experiment about this whole "hardcore vs. casual" issue. Let's take my family.

I have a gaming laptop (getting a bit old but I can still run most newer games), I have played all major RPGs in the past ten years as well as any other genre that caught my interest, I read gaming reviews and watch let's plays and I am active on gaming-related forums. I am , by all intents and purposes, a hardcore gamer, even if none of my co-workers would ever know.

My little brother has his own machine where he is usually only playing just "for fun". He is all about shooters, plays multiplayer FPSs and watches gaming-related youtube channels, but he really doesn't care about the gaming industry or gets any deeper into any games than "just for fun". He would be the lower end of the "hardcore gamer" spectrum.

My mother works on the computer on a hotline and between calls she is usually playing Facebook games. She played all the "big" casual games since Farmville, though always for free. In other words, she is your typical casual gamer.

Then finally we have my father, who is a bit of a technophobic idiot yet sometimes he sits down by my mother's machine when she is not around and plays a few rounds of Solitaire or Black Widow. He is the absolute borderline case of what you would consider a "casual gamer".

Yet, by the logic of this study, we are all completely equal "gamers" belonging to the very same demographic and treated as a monolithic entity. Do you see the problem yet?

 

[LaoJim]

That's what I find so hilarious. Because it really shouldn't matter. I just find this reaction highly amusing, and yet another example of why the gaming community is infected with Thewhiny children who think the female gamer is a mythological creature.

And really, it doesn't even matter if every single woman in that study played only candy crush.

There is a sense in which it does matter, in that if literally no women are going to play Assassin's Creed Unity then Ubisoft would be quite right to say there is no need for female playable characters. (To pick just one of the many discussions about equality going round at the moment)

(ignoring for the moment male gamers, including myself, who like to play female characters on occassion).

At the moment we don't know how many people who play AC are female. My personal suspicion (based on nothing very much) is that its > 5% but probably < 25%. That is to say few enough that Ubi can, from a business perspective, save money by ignoring this customer base, but not enough that it can come out and outright say only 1% of player of this game are women. As someone else pointed out sometimes companies want to say that gaming now has gender parity (or in other words "excuse us miss but don't be worried about giving us your money, all the ladies are doing it") but they also want to keep producing the toys for boys, violent and sexualized stuff. For myself I'd be very happy if the number of women playing AAA titles increased, because I think we'd get more varied, better visually designed and better written games.

The other issue of course is that many gamers, myself included again, don't like mobile gaming. I'm not going to tell anyone that they're having the wrong kind of fun, or look down on them, I just don't like playing on a small screen generally or on the bus in public (if I ever had a long commute this might change). Moreover I don't tend to enjoy many of the popular 'casual' games (though there are exceptions e.g. Plants vs Zombies, which I think works as both a mobile and a 'stationary' game, and lets remember that Tetris if released today would be considered casual). More to the point I don't like a lot of the monetarization (i.e. microtransactions and free-to-play) that started on mobile (or at least has become endemic there) and is (not-so) slowly spreading to console/PC gaming. In a sense then I am leary the effect that mobile games may have on the console games I enjoy as companies change their focus, business strategies and products to meet the new status quo. To a certain extent the two can co-exist and actually trying to change things is like King Canute holding back the waves, but in all honest I don't wish the mobile games industry, with its current products and attitudes, much success at the moment. Another way of saying it is I hope mobile gamers can enjoy quality gaming experiences with a fair pricing structure and model and I'm not convinced they're getting it at the moment.

I think where things get fractious is when people start to assume that fighting against women gamers is the same as fighting against mobile gamers, and that keeping women out of console/pc gaming is the same as keeping mobile gamers out of console/pc gaming.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/female-adults-oust-teenage-boys-largest-gaming-demographic/

The schadenfreude here is so sweet. And I am glad there are going to be whiny male gamers crying into their soup over this.

The 21st century is here. Get on board or get out of the way.

Are they going to hold me down and force me to play games I don't want to play? Am I going to be coerced at gunpoint by a bunch of radfems to suffer through Gone Home 3? If changing demographics results in all the big games becoming something I no longer want to play, guess what I'm gonna do? Something else. And I won't be crying about it or insisting that everyone cater to me me me. I will, however, shake my a head a little at the notion that one group of people can only gain something at the expense of another.

There's plenty of room for everyone to get the games they want. If you don't like what's out there, don't buy it. If you want something new and different, support it or make it. Same as it's always been. There are no victors, no winners and losers, if you're legitimately interested in *growing* the industry. But if you can only conceive of personal fulfillment through the diversion of existing resources to the projects *you* want, I think that's pretty sad.

Bright side: maybe they'll start stocking those grocery store aisles with books that aren't fucking terrible.

Additional note: the vast majority of highly successful mobile games are essentially casino games exploiting the same addictive triggers as slot machines. I wouldn't call the proliferation of such horrendous and amoral mechanics any sort of "progress" for this industry.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I am really curious how different this statistic would be if you didn't lump all videogames into one catagory and just went by console market. I've played mobile games, they're neat distractions but they are entirely different beasts then what's happening on home entertainment centers and/or PCs.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Yet, by the logic of this study, we are all completely equal "gamers" belonging to the very same demographic and treated as a monolithic entity. Do you see the problem yet?

Yes, I do. We all have a different interests, but there are people out there who think it's a bad thing when people point that out. I'm not sure why since it would benefit us all more to make the distinctions clearer. Games could be made even more to focus on each specific group and more people would get what they wanted. We don't need to be one giant group, there are just as many on both sides not happy about that idea. I'm sure my aunt doesn't want to be affiliated with the CoD players just because she bought Angry birds for 1$ and plays it while waiting in doctor's offices, and I'm sure the CoD people don't want to be affiliated whit her. Everyone's happy.

 

[Nico4]

I don't think it's fair to include smartphones i this, but they are technically games, so I'm afraid it does, somewhat, count. Even with traditional games though, I've met more and more women who are gamers, either fully or part time, which is a good thing

 

[DementedSheep]

If you count trashy micro transaction mobile games most of which are "free to play" or a couple of bucks so most people are going to at least try them if they have a device.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

From what I've seen, phone and family games aren't a gateway drug.

I think you're generally right, but let me give you an example. My mother (60+) got an XBox 360 a couple of years back, so the grandkids would have something fun when they visited. Since they were young she thought she'd better know a bit about it, she started off playing Viva Pinata and the Lego Games, unlocking all the animals/characters "so the kids can have access to them". A couple of Christmases ago she got Skyrim (she's a Lord of the Rings fan). My expectation was that she'd playing it for a couple of hours, get stuck and then I'd have a free copy of Skyrim. She's now completed it twice and has 200+ hours logged into it. She also completed Kingdoms of Amalur and was able to give the standard 'gamer' explanation of what was wrong with Fable 2/3. Last thing she was asking me if she'd enjoy Dark Souls.

Well, your mother's a badass. Anyway, it kind of speaks to one of the ways people get into gaming. Even though you wouldn't expect anyone 60+ to go anywhere near a video game, maybe it's just a "right for me" thing. Someone who has never played a game before might get right into the big names and AAA titles, some people might stick to the Wii, others won't go beyond mobile games, or someone like my mother might just play flash tower defense games and time management games.

 

[chikusho]

That's what I find so hilarious. Because it really shouldn't matter. I just find this reaction highly amusing, and yet another example of why the gaming community is infected with Thewhiny children who think the female gamer is a mythological creature.

And really, it doesn't even matter if every single woman in that study played only candy crush.

There is a sense in which it does matter, in that if literally no women are going to play Assassin's Creed Unity then Ubisoft would be quite right to say there is no need for female playable characters. (To pick just one of the many discussions about equality going round at the moment)

(ignoring for the moment male gamers, including myself, who like to play female characters on occassion).

Implying that women playing a game would be the one and only valid reason for fair and/or equal representation in a form of media. But that's still a discussion for another time.

At the moment we don't know how many people who play AC are female.

...

etc.

At this point your argument basically boils down to: I think this study is bad because it isn't another study. You can't fault research for not being other research.

The other issue of course is that many gamers, myself included again, don't like mobile gaming.

I have a hard time seeing how this is relevant.

More to the point I don't like a lot of the monetarization (i.e. microtransactions and free-to-play) that started on mobile (or at least has become endemic there) and is (not-so) slowly spreading to console/PC gaming.

So, women play a lot of mobile games that have microtransactions and monetization.. Therefore companies add monetization to games that women don't play because... reasons? I have a really hard time seeing how this is relevant.

I think where things get fractious is when people start to assume that fighting against women gamers is the same as fighting against mobile gamers, and that keeping women out of console/pc gaming is the same as keeping mobile gamers out of console/pc gaming.

This is the first time I've ever seen that argument, but sure. Let's go with that. Equally hilarious though.