Teenage PlayStation Hacker Sentenced

GodKlown

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Dec 16, 2009
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I've said this for a long time, but I'd still prefer we don't use the word "hacker" in conjunction with people who break into computer systems. I take personal offense to the term since my last name happens to be Hacker, and the negative connotation associated with this word has gotten me in trouble even without me participating in such activities. I like Krion_Vark's term of cracker instead.

Aside from that being said, how does this not fall under the Internet Security Act? This little buttwipe got away with a fine and a slap on the wrist. Granted he can't use PSN anymore, but I'd have thought the judge could think to ban the kid from any internet-enabled device for at least a year if not five. I am sure the damage he caused cost more than five grand to Sony, and I'd prefer to see Sony bring a civil suit against this kid for his actions and sue his balls to the wall. MAYBE then he'll get the picture not to screw around because he sucks at SOCOM.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Baby Tea said:
Therumancer said:
What's more given that consoles are a family possession with multiple users at times, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea that "it wasn't me, it was someone else" isn't considered to be a valid excuse. An entire family being punished for the actions of one moron, or because a friend that came over was being a jerk while using your system.
But isn't that just the way life is?
How many laws/restrictions have to be made or revised because people do stupid stuff?
DRM is here because of piracy, for example. The majority of consumers have to suffer for the idiotic, selfish acts of the minority.

When I was young, we had snowball fights at school! But that was banned.
Harsh speed limits, RIDE checks, airport luggage and carry on item restrictions, and I'm sure there is more. These are all things that are around because people did dumb stuff. I don't drive 100 km/h down residential streets, but now I have to go 40 instead of 60 because of some douche. I don't belong to a terrorist network or want to blow up a plane, but I can't carry a bottle of water or something on a plane now.

That's just the way the ball bounces.
Well, my point would be that in every example you mentioned there is a chance of someone dying or being seriously injured, including the snowball fight. What's more if serious action was going to be taken against you, you would get your day in court.

I believe hacking and such ARE a problem on gaming networks, it needs to be policed. But by the same token there has to be standards involved when that policing takes place. The problem as I see it is that the action a company like SONY takes is akin to the Car Company who manufactured your car taking it away from you because someone told them that you were speeding. Not only is the law not involved, but your not getting a chance to state your case. Heck, you don't even get a chance to know who accused you.

I've said similar things about moderation in the past on a lot of fronts. In general it tends to be a situation where either the company chooses not to moderate at all for all intents and purposes, or takes action very quickly and without bothering to consider the entire situation.

The big problem is not so much a bunch of idiots ruining things for everyone, as much as it is that the companies maintaining these networks (or heck, even subscription based MMOs) do not want to employ enough people or maintain a system to do the job right. Something that irritates me when I consider the amount of money brought in by the industry, chances are if they ever did bother to try and moderate properly they'd try and pass the cost on to gamers as opposed to taking it out of their monster profit margins.

Don't get me wrong here, the guy who did the hacking was wrong, but by the same token he lost his console and probably didn't have a viable course of appeal. Two wrongs do not make a right, BUT they do serve to show that there are some serious problems with the way things are operating.
 

commasplice

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Dec 24, 2009
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Nerdygamer89 said:
"This offense, by its very nature (which is similar to serious attacks against national cybersecurity), caused great alarm within Sony Corp. and the FBI,"

A script kiddie running a relatively small-scale DDOS attack caused great alarm? Hate to see how bad a real hacker would scare 'em, then. Fair ruling, IMO, but that particular line jumped out at me as being bullshit media attention grabbing.
My thoughts exactly. I highly doubt the FBI was shitting its pants over someone DDoSing Sony's website. I'm thinking the conversation over in HQ went something like this:

Cubicle Guy 1: "Hey, Bob. Some representative from Sony just called. He said they got hacked or something. They want us to look into it."
Cubicle Guy 2: (Looks up at CG1, then down at the papers on his desk, then back up to CG1) "Eh...Beats reading transcripts of the phone conversations of every brown person in the US, I guess."
monkey jesus said:
The fact that some sucker with 0 skillz used a shit botnet and got community service is not the big news here. How the anus did the Sony lawyers come up with that figure for compensation?!
Probably had their guys down in accounting conjure up some estimate of how much they lost while the servers were down and because of the lawyers' fees. My guess, though, is that the number was greatly inflated. Even if it wasn't, I agree with the judge: that number is excessive and it was ridiculous of Sony to actually expect them to be able to pay it.

What I'd like to know is how the kid was cheating in the first place. I mean, like others have said, it's completely irrelevant as far as the whole DDoS thing is concerned, but I'm wondering if the ban he received was actually just. There's many different ways to break the EULA of any given online game, many of which don't even affect anyone but the user. For example, modding your client so that everyone in the game appears to be wearing silly hats. Not harmful, not "cheating", but still against the terms of service.

In any event, what I'm taking from this is that Sony should've bought a dog.
 

Baby Tea

Just Ask Frankie
Sep 18, 2008
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Therumancer said:
Two wrongs do not make a right, BUT they do serve to show that there are some serious problems with the way things are operating.
Fair enough!
I think that SONY and Microsoft do a good job, for the most part, in terms of handling these situations.
I mean, the only reason we even heard about this is because the kid retaliated in a moronic way.

The moderation of PSN or XBL is just like any online forum.
Take this forum, for example! I'm sure there have been moderator actions that people have disagreed with. But the fact of matter is: This forum isn't publicly owned. It's privately owned. The owners of said forum make the rules, and if you won't follow them, then you'll get the boot. The same goes for PSN and XBL. They lay down the rules. And if you break them, you are susceptible to their punishment.

Now, the differences seems to be that the moderators on this forum will listen to the pleas and appeals of those who have been panned or probated, and change (Or even reverse) decisions that are more applicable to the offense, while XBL and PSN seem to have an 'all or nothing' type of moderation.

But let me say that, in my small amount of modding experience on this forum, the amount of 'whoops, that was too harsh' bans and probations are few and far between. They certainly happen, no doubt, but they are pretty rare. I'd say that 95% of people get what they get because they deserve it, not because a MOD went on a rampage of some kind.

I won't argue that XBL and PSN moderation could be more hands on, and more 'case by case' to assure that those who aren't actually at fault don't get caught in a sweeping net of automated bans, but I'd be willing to wager that the amount of legitimate bans greatly outweighs the 'unfair' bans. And when you have millions of users online, and probably less then 2% complains about an unfair ban (The number is based on my experience), then it'd be hard to argue moderation reforms.
 

commasplice

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Dec 24, 2009
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Therumancer said:
Boy, where the hell were you a year ago when Nexon arbitrarily banned 2,700 of its users? I kind of feel like I'm beating a dead horse because I bring this up every now and then, but I think this was a pretty big deal. The blurb on Wikipedia doesn't really do the whole thing justice.

Basically, there was this glitch inherent in the game (that was said to have been a problem in the overseas versions of the game, but hadn't been coded out when they brought it to North America) that allowed people to duplicate gold. Supposedly, knowledge of the glitch slowly spread throughout one of the the NA servers and it was allowed to be exploited to the point that the economy of that entire server was all but ruined. I can't attest to that, personally, or even tell you for sure that that's how it all started, but what I can tell you is that one player was apparently pissed off enough at the mods' inaction that he made a post about it on the game's forums.

He explained the situation with his server's economy, the fact that he and many other people had reported the glitch, but nothing was done about it and that, as a last resort, he had decided to force Nexon's hand by letting everyone else on the other two servers in on how to dupe gold. Well, after that, the whole thing kind of blew up. For the next day or so, people started printing money like they were employed at Enron or something. Eventually, the mods got off their asses, patched the glitch and then randomly banned a couple thousand people.

Wikipedia says that some people who were banned "complained", but I can tell you with certainty that many of the people banned were, in fact, innocent. To even use the glitch in the first place, you needed to own property in the game. To do that, you had to have been signed up for Mabinogi's premium service. Many of the people banned, however, were not paying players. In addition to that, I knew quite a few people that participated in the duping and none of them were banned. In fact, the two people I knew that did have their accounts frozen weren't even logged on between the times when the original forum post went up and when the mods got around to fixing the exploit.

For the next couple of weeks, the forums were flooded with posts to the effect of "I did nothing wrong, why was I banned?" and "This is bullshit, I'm quitting for good" on account of the fact that there was really no better way to get into contact with Nexon outside of the "file a ticket" system, which was usually only used for reporting bugs and abuses of the ToS, and almost never got a response, anyway.

I stopped playing shortly after all of this (for unrelated reasons), but last I heard, the accounts that were later found to be innocent were only unbanned after a whole month and many of the ones that were banned in the first place were never unbanned or even told what exactly they did to get their accounts seized to begin with. It's also worth it to note that, while Mabinogi is technically a "free to play" game, it does come with a cash shop and many of the regular players that had their accounts wrongfully frozen lost thousands of dollars and all of the time they'd poured into their characters over the previous year.

Edit: Oh yeah and I forgot to mention the fact that, a week later, another duping glitch (again, abusing flaws inherent in the housing system) was announced on the forums by another user. This time, though, the post came after Nexon's employees had gone home for the weekend (you heard me right, they had no one modding their games on the weekends), so players with houses were free to duplicate gold for a full 48 hours before anything was done about it. Funny part is that, after they fixed the second glitch, they didn't ban anyone else. I guess they figured they'd already hit their quota for the month.
 

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
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huh...

you know, he'd have gotten a lighter sentance if he trespassed on sony property and threw a brick through the corporate office's window.
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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ethaninja said:
If only I could go back in time, and kill the first hacker. Perhaps life as we know it would be most awesome indeed. I can't believe how serious this shit gets. You know what... I'm going to choose this one as my answer for the other thread "Serious stuff gone hilarious" or whatever it was called.
you actually think stopping one person would have prevented a history of hacking?

I've got news for you: as long as technology has existed, people have always tried to find a way to beat it.
 

ethaninja

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Oct 14, 2009
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Nurb said:
ethaninja said:
If only I could go back in time, and kill the first hacker. Perhaps life as we know it would be most awesome indeed. I can't believe how serious this shit gets. You know what... I'm going to choose this one as my answer for the other thread "Serious stuff gone hilarious" or whatever it was called.
you actually think stopping one person would have prevented a history of hacking?

I've got news for you: as long as technology has existed, people have always tried to find a way to beat it.
I figured somebody would say something like that. Well I'll go back in time again and kill them too.
 

lee1287

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Apr 7, 2009
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well, at least he didnt claim he had like ADD or something. Don't cheat. Pretty simple.
 

SpecklePattern

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May 5, 2010
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ethaninja said:
If only I could go back in time, and kill the first hacker. Perhaps life as we know it would be most awesome indeed. ...
There are always people who really wants to know exactly how things work. In real life and in computer world. And when they are really interested about those things they will find out how things work. When they know how things work, some of them will exploit the knowledge. And you would end up killing everyone eventually (Well it would solve lots of things :p Can't deny that)

For OT:
I think this is fair judgement for the kid. One should know that if you do harm for anyone it usually isn't legal and one should face the consequences.