TF2: New Scout weapons

[GRoXERs]

From what I understand, if you equip the new shotgun and NOT the new bat, you could actually get a triple jump. So how does the new shotgun "gimp" the scout again?

Ok.. So now instead of shooting the enemy 6 times before reloading, I can jump once, then again and then take my aim from my enemy and shoot for another small jump then bring my aim back to my enemy to shoot again. Oh wait now i'm out of shots and have to spend the next double jump reloading. Its just pointless. The extra jump isn't going to save you in the long run.

OR, you could shotgun them (say, a pyro that surprised you and is now trying to use the axtinguisher on you) from the ground, knocking them back, whip out your pistol and shoot them while they approach you again, then pull out the shotgun, double jump, and take them out on the fly, also propelling you away from danger.
It makes the shotgun more strategic, rather than twitch-based like the scat gun, i.e. if you waste your ammo you WILL die.

You're just being unneccessarily close-minded.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Just unlocked all the achievements. I must say valve really have no idea how the scout is meant to be played. Anyway.. Discuss for giggles

1: Nobody is forcing you to use them.

2: Valve made the game, so the if the characters are supposed to be played "a certain way" then it's the way they bloody well designed it.

3: Repeating yourself is not going to work when nobody else agrees with you.

4: Calling people a noob for giving a smart answer to your idiotic posts is pathetic, grow up.

5: It's whiny, ungrateful people like you that make game developers less likely to put in effort for free updates because they can never win.

I personally have not got any of the new updates for any of the classes due to only recently getting the PC version of the game (Sold the 360 version of Orange Box a while back) and I personally look forward to giving them a go, sure they may or may not work, but it's my choice to use them or not.

I lol'd.. Anyway. So why can't i call people noobs when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about in regards to strategies for playing the scout? Yeah nobody is forcing me to use them. But if there is no reason to.. Why is it a good thing for valve to waste time on them? This was meant to be a discussion. Calling my opinion idiotic is just pathetic.

They are calling you myopic, not idiotic. Name calling ("noobs") is not a valid form of discussion.

 

[DeusFps]

As some already have said: how can stunning a überd heavy not be a good thing?
Also the drink seems to be perfect when you are trying to get away with their intelligence.
The Force of Nature seems to be good against those pesky pyros ans their flames...
One last thing: if you are one of those that is using an achievement server, and it seems like you are, then you are the one that miss the point of achievements.

EDIT: AND STOP THE FRECKIN DOUBLE POSTING FFS!!! USE THE EDIT BUTTON INSTEAD!!!

Some people think it's rude to answer to more than one guy in a post. I do that too. It's nothing bad in my eyes.

Stunning uber'd heavy. Yeah fine good use for it. But how often in a game do you come across a uber'd heavy? Then compare it to how often you will come across a soldier at close range. You'll notice the soldier is rather more common. You need double jump to avoid the soldiers rockets and to get away, if you come across him with the bat your in trouble. So why make yourself more vulnerable to the common encounters to prepare for the un-common? Its not the scouts job to deal with ubers. Up to the snipers and spies to ensure that uber is never charged or is taken out before it is activated. Drink will make bugger all difference when you have the intel. The second you grab it, the whole enemy team will be coming for you. You can't stop for a second to drink it without getting owned. The 5 second invul will be almost no difference when you remember he walks at normal speed for a bit afterwards. Yeah fon might be ok againest pyros... But for you to push them at all, they need to be in flame range in the first place. Not to mention the fact once you have pushed them away, your next shot will do very little damage. Yes i did use an achievement server. Why? Because teams are gimped when people in certain classes are just achievement whoring. TF2 is a team game. If people are messing about trying to eat 100 fucking sandwiches then the whole thing just falls apart. I will not be one of those people.

 

[bue519]

Right, the new shotgun. Whats the point in removing double jump so you can use the shotgun for it insted and for less damage. No double jump = dead scout. The drink does nothing, you have to stand still for like 2 seconds and only lasts about 5. So you either take it in the think of fire and get owned in .5 of a second or take before and get ~1 second of the effect when you need it. Pistol still owns it. New bat is only think i would ever use, just to take out heavys, but i can do that easily by double jumping onto their head and owning them withh the normal bat. Does nobody else see this or am i the only one here who knows how to play tf2?

So come up with new strategies that make the most use of those features.

Yeah ok I'll get right down to making strats to make the scout harder to play for no reward.

Isn't it the bat that won't let you double jump not the shottie? So really the one you like the most is also your biggest complaint.

 

[Lukeje]

They are calling you myopic, not idiotic. Name calling ("noobs") is not a valid form of discussion.

Machines Are Us did call his posts 'idiotic'.

4: Calling people a noob for giving a smart answer to your idiotic posts is pathetic, grow up.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

They are calling you myopic, not idiotic. Name calling ("noobs") is not a valid form of discussion.

Machines Are Us did call his posts 'idiotic'.

4: Calling people a noob for giving a smart answer to your idiotic posts is pathetic, grow up.

Hehe was trying to be less literal and more specific.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Reward as in playing better. No point in using a hard strat if you get the same result as a easy one. The better weapons thing... Thats why i said make them hard to obtain. Insted of achievements that result out of pure luck have ones that reward skill. That is what warrants a buff in weapons. Any vet player to the scout would be able to obtain them as well obviously, even quicker.

What other result is there but victory or death? The new weapons are no harder to get a kill with - they just approach the problem in slightly different fashions. Yes, it is different, which means you have to learn a new skill set to use them, but it doesn't strike me as being any more difficult than learning to use the scout in the first place.

Like I said, if you don't like the new weapons there is nothing that forces you to use them. If they delivered a weapon that was the same but better as you propose, then they would be inherently unbalancing the game. Veteran players already have an advantage in skill over the newbie - why give them inherently better guns to boot?

 

[DeusFps]

Yeah ok I'll get right down to making strats to make the scout harder to play for no reward.

So you're blaming Valve for the fact that you can't be bothered to find out how to use the new weapons effectively?

/facepalm

I've just spent the whole thread explaining why they aren't effecttive. Please read it kthx

No, you've explained why you don't think they are effective. How many hours did you spend to get 'good' at playing the scout? And how many hours have you spent playing the new mods? Just because you can't be bothered putting the effort in doesn't mean that there isn't potential there.

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

 

[dekkarax]

Right, the new shotgun. Whats the point in removing double jump so you can use the shotgun for it insted and for less damage. No double jump = dead scout. The drink does nothing, you have to stand still for like 2 seconds and only lasts about 5. So you either take it in the think of fire and get owned in .5 of a second or take before and get ~1 second of the effect when you need it. Pistol still owns it. New bat is only think i would ever use, just to take out heavys, but i can do that easily by double jumping onto their head and owning them withh the normal bat. Does nobody else see this or am i the only one here who knows how to play tf2?

So come up with new strategies that make the most use of those features.

Yeah ok I'll get right down to making strats to make the scout harder to play for no reward.

First, playing a video game doesn't EVER equate to a reward in any measurable sense of the word - mastery (and thus, owning the noobs) is the reward in and of itself. Second, each of the items placed in the game is designed to provide additional play options for each class without dramatically altering their role. The scout's new weapons, like the pyro upgrades before it, result in a class that plays differently but still fulfills the same basic role. In the case of the pyro it's unparalleled short ranged firepower, in the case of the scout it's high speed skirmish warfare. If you do not like the altered play style associated with the new weapons, by all means stick with the old ones, no one twisted your arm to make you use the new stuff.

Just look at it this way - if the new weapons were literally "The same as the old ones only better" than you have given in inherent advantage to a veteran player above and beyond skills - which goes against a key tenant of FPS games (The presumed level playing field).

Reward as in playing better. No point in using a hard strat if you get the same result as a easy one. The better weapons thing... Thats why i said make them hard to obtain. Insted of achievements that result out of pure luck have ones that reward skill. That is what warrants a buff in weapons. Any vet player to the scout would be able to obtain them as well obviously, even quicker.

Yes but you said that you used an acheivement server, what's to stop people for using them to get those achevements? Then the original weapons would be pointless. And besides, why should vets just get extra weapons? We all payed for the game, shouldn't we all get to use the content?

 

[Lukeje]

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

Yes, the people at Valve who designed the game. How many scout updates have you ever been privy to? This is your first you say? Well, how can you know that the new weapons have no potential? Yes, you will have to adapt your strategies, that's kind of the point. I ask again, how long did it take you to get 'good' at playing as a scout?

 

[Jharry5]

It seems that the OP is just looking for things to find wrong about the new additions, in my opinion. If they bug you so much, just don't use them...

 

[DeusFps]

I lol'd.. Anyway. So why can't i call people noobs when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about in regards to strategies for playing the scout? Yeah nobody is forcing me to use them. But if there is no reason to.. Why is it a good thing for valve to waste time on them? This was meant to be a discussion. Calling my opinion idiotic is just pathetic.

And this is where you lost all credibility. You want to be able to insult people for being less skilled or take a different view of the game than yourself. We aren't calling your opinion idiotic, we are calling YOU idiotic for having such a closed minded attitude on a FORUM!

Look if you truly think that extra content should be for the "hardcore" by getting half a million frags then I have to ask you a few questions about yourself.

When did you start gaming?
Do you believe games like Halo 1,2,3 and the Cod series are the staple of FPS?
Do you believe all games should be competitive where the elite rise and the losers should destroy their consoles and never play games again?

You, Deusfps take a very closed minded view of gaming. Video game consoles and games are toys, you know meant for children or at the very least a source of entertainment. Being all uptight that and having a close-minded view that only the "elite" or "hardcore" should have access to better weapons goes against the whole point of having a class based FPS system where certain classes will have a basic(very basic) advantage. The sniper will have an easier time getting a headshot on a heavy over a scout or the demoman will have an easy time destroying a sentry without being seen.

You, Deusfps just want better weapons so you can play ONE class to defeat everyone. You are not playing Halo or other non-class based FPS. The weapons are not there to make the classes better for "hardcore" player to defeat "casual" players easier, the weapons are there to amplify or alter the classes advantages to different situations.

For someone so obsessed about the FPS genre, you certainly do not know your FPS game design.

For a start. CoD4 and halo are bs. Now that we have that out the way. Your post confuses me. You appear to think i want the game to be harder and easier at the same time. Anyway, whats the point in new weapons that make the scout worse for most of the time just to solve a couple random situations? No i don't want to be able to own any class. Thats just imbalance. Such things happened with the pyro weps. Yes i know these games are for entertainment. But your just detracting from everyone else's enjoyment when your spending more time achievement whoring than playing the game. If you really can't play a game without it being updated every month, then i suggest you go play a mmo or something.

 

[DeusFps]

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

Yes, the people at Valve who designed the game. How many scout updates have you ever been privy to? This is your first you say? Well, how can you know that the new weapons have no potential? Yes, you will have to adapt your strategies, that's kind of the point. I ask again, how long did it take you to get 'good' at playing as a scout?

I've spent approx 40 hours playing the scout class. But he is no way my normal class. Most of tf2 is tactics and strategy. Which can be taught to you in no time. The hard part with the scout is taking in all the factors around you and aiming at high speeds... and learning how to double jump onto heavies without them killing you..

 

[Meatstorm]

Im really satisfied with this update. The weapons seem to be cool and different enough to keep me doing achievements. only minor thing i have to complain is that EVERYBODY(including me) plays scouts atm and that imbalances games for few weeks.

Im really a casual gamer, but i have unlocked all weapons so far(except scout) and i have nothing to complain. sure some are definitely weaker, but since i can choose between them it doesnt really matter.

 

[Simriel]

Yeah ok I'll get right down to making strats to make the scout harder to play for no reward.

So you're blaming Valve for the fact that you can't be bothered to find out how to use the new weapons effectively?

/facepalm

I've just spent the whole thread explaining why they aren't effecttive. Please read it kthx

No, you've explained why you don't think they are effective. How many hours did you spend to get 'good' at playing the scout? And how many hours have you spent playing the new mods? Just because you can't be bothered putting the effort in doesn't mean that there isn't potential there.

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

I most likely know the game BETTER than you. I have been playing since release day, and have roughly equal time on every class except spy. I spent a good ten hours with each class before deciding that the Spy was the one for me. The new gear DOES have potential, and please... just please, stop acting like your opinion is the ONLY one that matters. We have all played the gorram game. We all play FPS games. Wanna know why i play TF2? Because i like the fun rather than the competitive aspect. I can't stand games like COD or Halo 3 online, because its all about the kills, not having fun. You are the kind of player a loath, that only really plays games for the online modes. Have you played any of valve's other stellar work? Did you enjoy the amazing storyline and fantastic oppressive atmosphere of half life 2? Or where you too busy being 'L33T' and 'fragging N00bz' in halo 3?

Edit: I by no means only have ten hours with each class. I still play other classes. Except the medic. I'm bad at the medic.

 

[Lukeje]

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

Yes, the people at Valve who designed the game. How many scout updates have you ever been privy to? This is your first you say? Well, how can you know that the new weapons have no potential? Yes, you will have to adapt your strategies, that's kind of the point. I ask again, how long did it take you to get 'good' at playing as a scout?

I've spent approx 40 hours playing the scout class. But he is no way my normal class. Most of tf2 is tactics and strategy. Which can be taught to you in no time. The hard part with the scout is taking in all the factors around you and aiming at high speeds... and learning how to double jump onto heavies without them killing you..

But I don't understand why you don't want to put in the effort to find new ways to play? Does it not become boring after that amount of time?

 

[Simriel]

I lol'd.. Anyway. So why can't i call people noobs when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about in regards to strategies for playing the scout? Yeah nobody is forcing me to use them. But if there is no reason to.. Why is it a good thing for valve to waste time on them? This was meant to be a discussion. Calling my opinion idiotic is just pathetic.

And this is where you lost all credibility. You want to be able to insult people for being less skilled or take a different view of the game than yourself. We aren't calling your opinion idiotic, we are calling YOU idiotic for having such a closed minded attitude on a FORUM!

Look if you truly think that extra content should be for the "hardcore" by getting half a million frags then I have to ask you a few questions about yourself.

When did you start gaming?
Do you believe games like Halo 1,2,3 and the Cod series are the staple of FPS?
Do you believe all games should be competitive where the elite rise and the losers should destroy their consoles and never play games again?

You, Deusfps take a very closed minded view of gaming. Video game consoles and games are toys, you know meant for children or at the very least a source of entertainment. Being all uptight that and having a close-minded view that only the "elite" or "hardcore" should have access to better weapons goes against the whole point of having a class based FPS system where certain classes will have a basic(very basic) advantage. The sniper will have an easier time getting a headshot on a heavy over a scout or the demoman will have an easy time destroying a sentry without being seen.

You, Deusfps just want better weapons so you can play ONE class to defeat everyone. You are not playing Halo or other non-class based FPS. The weapons are not there to make the classes better for "hardcore" player to defeat "casual" players easier, the weapons are there to amplify or alter the classes advantages to different situations.

For someone so obsessed about the FPS genre, you certainly do not know your FPS game design.

For a start. CoD4 and halo are bs. Now that we have that out the way. Your post confuses me. You appear to think i want the game to be harder and easier at the same time. Anyway, whats the point in new weapons that make the scout worse for most of the time just to solve a couple random situations? No i don't want to be able to own any class. Thats just imbalance. Such things happened with the pyro weps. Yes i know these games are for entertainment. But your just detracting from everyone else's enjoyment when your spending more time achievement whoring than playing the game. If you really can't play a game without it being updated every month, then i suggest you go play a mmo or something.

He never suggested he was achievement whoring, or wanted constant updates... Look let me ask you a favour. leave. Go away. Stop this. Let us all get on with our lives free from your one sided, close minded 'everyone is wrong but me' attitude.

 

[wordsmith]

L2Edit...

You have:
1) Played through the content (presumably on an achievements server, judging by the speed that you have done them).
2) Unlocked all the weapons
3) Decided that you don't enjoy them.
and THAT'S where you made your mistake.
4) You come onto the forums and proclaim that they're rubbish
5) You flame people who don't agree with you.
6) You repeatedly call said people noobs, and complain when the statement is reversed.
and THIS is where you can rectify your mistake.
7) You suddenly understand that Team Fortress is a game designed for FUN, not for "vets". By all means get good with a class, but NEVER attempt to place yourself above other players. Good players have bad days, bad players have good days. Life goes on
8) You understand that you DO NOT have to use the sidegrades (yes, sidegrades, not upgrades) after you unlock them.
9) You understand that (just the same as the Heavy and the Pyro) these changes are made TO ADD VARIETY TO CLASSES. Not to make them better, to add variety. Do you go with a Flamethrower or a Backburner? It depends on how you prefer to play.
10) You then stop talking.

 

[Susano]

Yeah ok I'll get right down to making strats to make the scout harder to play for no reward.

So you're blaming Valve for the fact that you can't be bothered to find out how to use the new weapons effectively?

/facepalm

I've just spent the whole thread explaining why they aren't effecttive. Please read it kthx

No, you've explained why you don't think they are effective. How many hours did you spend to get 'good' at playing the scout? And how many hours have you spent playing the new mods? Just because you can't be bothered putting the effort in doesn't mean that there isn't potential there.

You may have trouble understanding this. But some people know the game enough to know when there is little potential

Yes and some people like ... oh I don't know, The GAME DEVELOPERS know how to make an update that dosen't completely unbalance the game like you so said.Speaking of that how exactly does having different weapons unbalance the game? It seems like it would only unbalance the game if they did what you suggested, make better weapons that only the vets can get so that they can TtTlY P0wN TeH N0oBs!!11! Also, the achivements you suggested to have these weapons wouldent even be accesable to vets, I mean kill 500,000 people using the scout? Thats not even skill, thats just grinding! If you want to have a game where you grind kills slowly to get gradually better weapons go and play a MMORPGer.

I understand about why you are complaining about having to get all the achivements only to get equal (or worse in your opinion} weapons and have to learn a whole new playstyle just have them for that 1/100 chance, the thing is that you can use these weapons outside of that 1/100 chance, Take the bonk energy drink, sentries giving your team trouble? Cant get the information? just use that and youll get that small boost!

Ok, ok, why should I use this if there are spies, pyros and demomen to do that for me? Well maybe they are distracted, or dead, or maybe there are just none on your team! And besides, who wants to blame someone else for not doing their job when you are perfectly capable of doing it yourself? The FAN is a drawback if used with the boost but thats the thing, most of the items for ALL the classes arnet suppoed to be used together! besides if the pyro is in flamethrower range you just use the FAN on him and pull out your pistol. About the chance of the ubered heavy for the bat, its not heavies, its any ubered class! And about the sniper and the spy, you cant be 100% prediction of when an ubers coming, and when it does your there to waste it!