TF2: New Scout weapons
- Thread starter DeusFps
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I just explained this. This wasn't intended to be a whine thread. Although I'll admit i got a bit side tracked in a few posts. Anyway, this was intended to discuss strategies for the new weapons. Saying "just don't use them" isn't helping.JokerGrin said:
5) Agreed, but that's the point of the update. The more you play the class, the more likely it is that X will shift himself upfield, Y will stop to pick his nose and Z will decide a new colour scheme is needed. It's also more fun (imo) to have an achievement pop up when you are just playing normally, not "Hey, I want/need this". That's not to say I haven't targeted certain classes for certain achievements, but I wouldn't go as far as farming them all on release day.DeusFps said:5) If it costs me nothing to try, then why not? For all i know it could of turned out to be epic. The pure luck i was referring to was some of the achievements. You know like the "Unlocked when X is here, y is doing this and z is orange" achievements.wordsmith said:
7) By pick up and play i assume you mean how much of a time commitment you must have before you can play the game reasonably well? If I'm wrong please correct me. Tactics and strategy pretty much are needed for this in tf2. I know these have to be learned. That was my point.
8)I also said discuss. Not somebody give me a solution.
9)Yes but i did say nobody used the axe for the damage before the update. You can't really nerf something that isn't used. Pre update the soldier and heavy were not designed to be weak to the pyro. If the heavy hasn't got his gun spinning, then it means he's running from the spawn. Meaning he's in no position to be a threat to your team yet. So is pretty much a pointless target. The heavy is best used at close range due to the high spread and low damage of each bullet. Same for soldier. His main weakness is the fact his projectiles have a slow moving speed. This doesn't matter at close range which means he takes full advantage of the blast radius given to him meaning two shots near the ground near him and the pyro is down. Those where the two classes that would beat the pyro at close range. Anything else died. But the pyro could take these classes down provided the pyro used tactics and the enemy didn't really know what he was doing. Now the axe removes the the need for the tactics part and nulls the need for the enemy to have no idea what he's doing. I'm pretty sure the whole point of class based combat is each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each relying on the other to null the weaknesses and buff the strengths. If you give the player the option to change the strengths and weaknesses it pretty much makes the whole class based gameplay pointless :/
Sorry it took so long. I got lost in the massive quote
7)Corrected- I meant the ability to(*gasp*) pick it up and play it, and have fun from the outset. Playing the game "reasonably well" is subjective. If I play COD on the PS3 with my friends, I am lucky to get a 1:1 K/D ratio (due partially to my lack of knowledge of the game and partially to my lack of using a PS3 controller in my normal gaming. If I don't come bottom in the match, I feel that I've done "reasonably well". Compare that to the owner of the console, and if he's not in the top 3 he feels he's done badly. You literally can jump straight into the game and (without knowing any tactics or even what the other classes DO)play. Maybe you get slaughtered, but maybe you start to pick up on things. You start to realise that certain areas are good and bad places to run through, and so with a bare minimum of knowledge you find yourself having FUN
8)You said discuss. I gave you my opinion. You disagree with it. end of.
9)No-one used the axe? Presumably you've talked to every TF2 player and confirmed this? You also said that it was used in emergencies, which I commented on by saying that you no longer HAVE that option to fall back on. Speaking as a guy who used to play as a heavy, the annoying pyro would always appear, ignite and run around the corner, leaving me to either run after him with the shotgun or waddle around with the minigun spinning. The first did less damage, but the second meant they got further away. Again, if you're attempting to face a heavy down as an offencive class, you're probably doing it wrong. If the Soldier fires from close range, the effect is the same as people attempting to rocketjump for the first time. Too much damage against themselves. Soldiers tend to attack along straight, narrow areas so they don't miss. If a Pyro is around the corner, the Pyro strikes the first blow and is likely to survive. The axe still requires the tactics, as the axe now takes longer to attack (time it takes to ignite+time it takes to swap+time it takes to attack), by which time most classes have backed the hell up and are shooting as much as they can. Lastly, the classes still rely on eachother, just in a different way. The Scout can now run faster, although will be vulnerable for a few seconds before and after. This means that the player needs his teammates to draw fire away from the scout (which is not usually done, usually the scout is weaving through the bullets rather than letting other people take them for him.
Fine, I'll refine what I said. A game I would describe as a casual game isn't often played as a hardcore game. Also, if we're fighting each other's definitions than I could be a douche and say this
eliminated the number of hardcore games to..3 or 0 depending on how much of an ass I was being. If I said fun is subjective than it's 0. If I decided to be somewhat reasonable and only count games I wouldn't find fun unless I practiced I"d say the only games that ever gave me that impression were skate2, that submarine game that xplay used to talk about, and I'll leave one spot open just incase I forgot something.
You think you have to practice skate 2 to have fun? I played it on PS3 (with the same mate as with COD) and had fun seeing how many bones I could break in one crash and how far I could get by turning the board into a luge. I have to concede, I've never played this "submarine game", but I'm sure given the chance I could find something to step in and play. Obviously I can't say anything about the last slot, but if you think of one, let me know.mike1921 said:
5) Ok if you insist, i personally haven't found this to be the case. But w/ewordsmith said:5) Agreed, but that's the point of the update. The more you play the class, the more likely it is that X will shift himself upfield, Y will stop to pick his nose and Z will decide a new colour scheme is needed. It's also more fun (imo) to have an achievement pop up when you are just playing normally, not "Hey, I want/need this". That's not to say I haven't targeted certain classes for certain achievements, but I wouldn't go as far as farming them all on release day.DeusFps said:5) If it costs me nothing to try, then why not? For all i know it could of turned out to be epic. The pure luck i was referring to was some of the achievements. You know like the "Unlocked when X is here, y is doing this and z is orange" achievements.wordsmith said:
7) By pick up and play i assume you mean how much of a time commitment you must have before you can play the game reasonably well? If I'm wrong please correct me. Tactics and strategy pretty much are needed for this in tf2. I know these have to be learned. That was my point.
8)I also said discuss. Not somebody give me a solution.
9)Yes but i did say nobody used the axe for the damage before the update. You can't really nerf something that isn't used. Pre update the soldier and heavy were not designed to be weak to the pyro. If the heavy hasn't got his gun spinning, then it means he's running from the spawn. Meaning he's in no position to be a threat to your team yet. So is pretty much a pointless target. The heavy is best used at close range due to the high spread and low damage of each bullet. Same for soldier. His main weakness is the fact his projectiles have a slow moving speed. This doesn't matter at close range which means he takes full advantage of the blast radius given to him meaning two shots near the ground near him and the pyro is down. Those where the two classes that would beat the pyro at close range. Anything else died. But the pyro could take these classes down provided the pyro used tactics and the enemy didn't really know what he was doing. Now the axe removes the the need for the tactics part and nulls the need for the enemy to have no idea what he's doing. I'm pretty sure the whole point of class based combat is each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each relying on the other to null the weaknesses and buff the strengths. If you give the player the option to change the strengths and weaknesses it pretty much makes the whole class based gameplay pointless :/
Sorry it took so long. I got lost in the massive quote
7)Corrected- I meant the ability to(*gasp*) pick it up and play it, and have fun from the outset. Playing the game "reasonably well" is subjective. If I play COD on the PS3 with my friends, I am lucky to get a 1:1 K/D ratio (due partially to my lack of knowledge of the game and partially to my lack of using a PS3 controller in my normal gaming. If I don't come bottom in the match, I feel that I've done "reasonably well". Compare that to the owner of the console, and if he's not in the top 3 he feels he's done badly. You literally can jump straight into the game and (without knowing any tactics or even what the other classes DO)play. Maybe you get slaughtered, but maybe you start to pick up on things. You start to realise that certain areas are good and bad places to run through, and so with a bare minimum of knowledge you find yourself having FUN
8)You said discuss. I gave you my opinion. You disagree with it. end of.
9)No-one used the axe? Presumably you've talked to every TF2 player and confirmed this? You also said that it was used in emergencies, which I commented on by saying that you no longer HAVE that option to fall back on. Speaking as a guy who used to play as a heavy, the annoying pyro would always appear, ignite and run around the corner, leaving me to either run after him with the shotgun or waddle around with the minigun spinning. The first did less damage, but the second meant they got further away. Again, if you're attempting to face a heavy down as an offencive class, you're probably doing it wrong. If the Soldier fires from close range, the effect is the same as people attempting to rocketjump for the first time. Too much damage against themselves. Soldiers tend to attack along straight, narrow areas so they don't miss. If a Pyro is around the corner, the Pyro strikes the first blow and is likely to survive. The axe still requires the tactics, as the axe now takes longer to attack (time it takes to ignite+time it takes to swap+time it takes to attack), by which time most classes have backed the hell up and are shooting as much as they can. Lastly, the classes still rely on eachother, just in a different way. The Scout can now run faster, although will be vulnerable for a few seconds before and after. This means that the player needs his teammates to draw fire away from the scout (which is not usually done, usually the scout is weaving through the bullets rather than letting other people take them for him.
7) kk
8) k
9) By that i meant hardly anyone used it, basicly because there was no need to. I personally never used it. Just because if i ran out of ammo for the flame thrower i legged it and pelted him with the shotgun. If you had the skill to, then it was always worth trying to outright kill the heavy. The soldier has more health than the pyro and takes less damage from the rockets. So he bearly felt the effect of putting a few in the ground two feet away from him. The axe doesn't really need much in the way of tactics. You can normally puff once, quick switch and hit a heavy once before he reacts. Remember there is still only about a 1 second delay between each attack, by the time the heavy has moved his aim the second hit is alost there. Worst case scenario is pyro loses half health. The heavy won't be able to back up enough while spinning his gun. Lastly, it doesn't make him run any faster. Again this is going back to switching roles. So personally i think it just messes things up a bit.
I'm talking about the "Out of the Park" achievement. Getting someone to hold still for ten seconds without either of you being killed and without their consent is like trying to get someone with ADD to watch C-SPAN for equally as long. To quote Yahtzee's paraphrase of Oscar Wilde, "No chance you unreasonable dicks"!DeusFps said:
Personally, I don't mind the weapons, but the achievements really bother me. Quite a few of the achievements require achievement weapons, so it's a bit tough to actually get them all legitimately, which is what I'm trying to do. Another thing, their achievements don't, in my opinion, have the creativity and flair of the previous updates. Oh well, it's still a free update and I'll take what I can!
Omg, I kept Lol-ing the whole first page of the thread, DeusFps is to me everything that's wrong about "good gamers". I hate it when people get overcompetitive and just stop having fun. All of the sudden the game (according to them) is something not to have fun, but to be REALLY GOOD at it, can't play like the "pro's" you're a noob and "you're gimping your team N008Z!!! LOLOLOL"
I mean seriously, get a job, get a life, and start having some fun when playing games (even if you lose) :S
I mean seriously, get a job, get a life, and start having some fun when playing games (even if you lose) :S
There's plenty of use for all the unlock weapons. For instance, I have great fun and giggles flare-sniping snipers. Nothing screws up your aim like being set on fire.
Ehhh... first thing...your a dink. You don't decied who the game is played, Valve does. Guess what? They just changed it.
Second thing, the updates just came out. There might be balancing/buffs to be done to the unlockables yet still. Remember then they removed the 50 bonus HP from the Back Burner.
Ehhh... first thing...your a dink. You don't decied who the game is played, Valve does. Guess what? They just changed it.
Second thing, the updates just came out. There might be balancing/buffs to be done to the unlockables yet still. Remember then they removed the 50 bonus HP from the Back Burner.
Hum... this is apparently an argument thread. How befitting of TF2, people in heated fights for no particularly good reason.
I personally enjoy the new update. I am better at using the Force-of-nature then the old gun. The drink doesn't last long enough to be much good, but it can be used to strategically bypass a sentry guarded hall or passage. I'm undecided about the Sandman bat. I haven't used the scout enough to relie on the double jump and I'm not accurate with the baseball. It could be useful, but I don't now if the double jump is more useful yet.
I personally enjoy the new update. I am better at using the Force-of-nature then the old gun. The drink doesn't last long enough to be much good, but it can be used to strategically bypass a sentry guarded hall or passage. I'm undecided about the Sandman bat. I haven't used the scout enough to relie on the double jump and I'm not accurate with the baseball. It could be useful, but I don't now if the double jump is more useful yet.
Says the guy who finds it 'too hard' to play with the new weaponry.DeusFps said:No. Now i jsut know how many of you are noobsSimriel said:
I love the bat, I can see the usefulness of the shotgun, and Bonk!, well, I'll have to decide. However, I have seen many people use all of them really well.
Anyway; can't you just use the old weaponry? I think you're just bitching over something that a lot of people like just to look different. Quiet before you embarrass yourself further.
EDIT: Wait a minute, you use achievement servers? Wow, you're a hypocrite.
I don't get why everyone is complaining. Valve can easily be like every other company and not do any updates at all, keep the price at an even 50 until no, but no until Friday it's only 10$. Valve doesn't f*** around, of course they have playtested it, Scout is a class that changes much player by player, the fact that they could find things that well was to me a little surprising. The ideas of all of them are a little daring although if they really screwed up as much as you are saying they will fix it, they always have. Once all of the packs are out wait a while, a month or two, they all seem to fit into the TF2 universe.
Up until the pyro weapons came up pyro to me seemed like a boring and unstratgistic class. All the new weapons solved that for me, and added almost dozens of ways to run into a situation. The whole thing about the new weapons is to have more options.
Now for all of you little whining bitches saying that the new weapons suck, I am sure some has/soon will make a mod disabling them for servers.
Up until the pyro weapons came up pyro to me seemed like a boring and unstratgistic class. All the new weapons solved that for me, and added almost dozens of ways to run into a situation. The whole thing about the new weapons is to have more options.
Now for all of you little whining bitches saying that the new weapons suck, I am sure some has/soon will make a mod disabling them for servers.