Why's that? The site contributers being able to say anything makes for funny videos, and it'd be a lot more boring otherwise. Forum goes being able to say anything leads to an unmoderated cesspool that is boring and stupid to read through, and filled with angry idiots shouting bullshit at eachother over nothing. This is the best of both worlds, the forums aren't total ragefests and the videos can still be funny.
If you want unmoderated discussion, you can go to 4chan or reddit.
What's The Escapist's policy on general racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic slurs when not directed at any forum member in particular? Are words like homo/fag/tranny/******/spic/monkey/kike etc OK to throw around?
I only ask because I've attempted to report homophobic/transphobic slurs in the past with no result, and right now there's a thread in R&P which starts off by referring to Asian-Americans as "Yellow Americans" and actually managed to get more racist from there. I tried reporting it and - again - nothing happened.
The Code of Conduct appears to take a general stance against sexist/racist language but I've never seen it enforced. Maybe it's just because it's not directed at any particular forum member in particular, but I can't imagine it paints a great impression of The Escapist when LGBT people/racial minorities drop by and see themselves cheerfully described with offensive language, while people are getting warnings for using the word "idiot".
If you spam the same report button you might end up setting off the automatic spam detection on this site, basically deleting all those reports you've just done and stopping our inbox's getting filled with spam.
Hit it once, its all that is needed, for you want us to have a closer look at an issue then you can either PM us directly or use the Moderation User Group. using this thread helps of course.
If you spam the same report button you might end up setting off the automatic spam detection on this site, basically deleting all those reports you've just done and stopping our inbox's getting filled with spam.
Hit it once, its all that is needed, for you want us to have a closer look at an issue then you can either PM us directly or use the Moderation User Group. using this thread helps of course.
I only ever click the report button once. I figured that was all that was needed.
Again, I'm interested to know whether The Escapist has any kind of policy against using racist and homophobic slurs. Is it OK for forum members to describe groups of people as n***rs or f*gs, so long as they're not directing it at a particular member?
Can someone please clarify what qualifies as sexism around here? Apparently calling women who don't dress modestly enough for your tastes "sluts" and comparing them to objects who have sex robbed from them isn't sexist according to the Escapists standards, so I would be fascinated to know what is.
Can someone please clarify what qualifies as sexism around here? Apparently calling women who don't dress modestly enough for your tastes "sluts" and comparing them to objects who have sex robbed from them isn't sexist according to the Escapists standards, so I would be fascinated to know what is.
Its good this sort of things helps, also you can join the Moderation Team user group for further clarification and as another way to quickly get hold of the mods here
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team
oh and the mods here have blue names, just so you know.
Can someone please clarify what qualifies as sexism around here? Apparently calling women who don't dress modestly enough for your tastes "sluts" and comparing them to objects who have sex robbed from them isn't sexist according to the Escapists standards, so I would be fascinated to know what is.
It's not 'a' post. Go through this thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.401808-The-Provocative-Clothing-Rape-Defense?page=1
and ctrl-f "slut", then read those posts. Here, I'll help you out a bit. These are all from the second page alone:
cerebreturns said:
People don't use it as a defense for rape except in cases of where the woman's character comes into question. It's the same way as a woman who's constantly going to bars, who is known for being a slut and so on.
If enough tags up then it can be considered circumstantial evidence against her case of rape.
There are a lot of cases of women later on coming out and saying that the person who "raped" them in fact didn't rape them but they said it.
They don't use it as a defence for rape. It's a way of giving the person who wore as much as a bra and some knickers some responsibility. Dressing like a slut means you're only going to be seen and treated as a slut by some stranger, hell probably even to a lot of people who know you well, so some responsibility needs to be accepted for that.
A moderator actually responded to this next one later in the thread saying that "We don't tolerate language like [retard] here" and then proceeded to tolerate the shit out of it seeing as it wasn't moderated in any way.
Deryl Owens said:
I like how the subject of the woman being flirtatous and leading the man on is not included. You think women only DRESS a certain way or do you think it follows that they also act a certain way when dressed (lets not pull any punches here) like a slut. Try to act like booty shorts at the club instead of the gym is somehow not slutty if you want to but then youre just being dishonest.
Before you say (like a retard) that Im actually defending the rapist: False. I am not defending the rapist. Rape is so obviously wrong it is insulting you accuse me of thinking otherwise.
This isn't even counting the people who compared women to objects who have sex 'stolen' from them like a car or a house. Several women on this site have expressed disappointment with the lack of moderation surrounding sexism on these forums. If you want to have a clause in the Code of Conduct saying you don't tolerate sexism, I suggest you at least define sexism, because by you are alienating your female forum-goers with how shockingly tolerant you are of it.
Can someone please clarify what qualifies as sexism around here? Apparently calling women who don't dress modestly enough for your tastes "sluts" and comparing them to objects who have sex robbed from them isn't sexist according to the Escapists standards, so I would be fascinated to know what is.
It's not 'a' post. Go through this thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.401808-The-Provocative-Clothing-Rape-Defense?page=1
and ctrl-f "slut", then read those posts. Here, I'll help you out a bit. These are all from the second page alone:
cerebreturns said:
People don't use it as a defense for rape except in cases of where the woman's character comes into question. It's the same way as a woman who's constantly going to bars, who is known for being a slut and so on.
If enough tags up then it can be considered circumstantial evidence against her case of rape.
There are a lot of cases of women later on coming out and saying that the person who "raped" them in fact didn't rape them but they said it.
They don't use it as a defence for rape. It's a way of giving the person who wore as much as a bra and some knickers some responsibility. Dressing like a slut means you're only going to be seen and treated as a slut by some stranger, hell probably even to a lot of people who know you well, so some responsibility needs to be accepted for that.
A moderator actually responded to this next one later in the thread saying that "We don't tolerate language like [retard] here" and then proceeded to tolerate the shit out of it seeing as it wasn't moderated in any way.
Deryl Owens said:
I like how the subject of the woman being flirtatous and leading the man on is not included. You think women only DRESS a certain way or do you think it follows that they also act a certain way when dressed (lets not pull any punches here) like a slut. Try to act like booty shorts at the club instead of the gym is somehow not slutty if you want to but then youre just being dishonest.
Before you say (like a retard) that Im actually defending the rapist: False. I am not defending the rapist. Rape is so obviously wrong it is insulting you accuse me of thinking otherwise.
This isn't even counting the people who compared women to objects who have sex 'stolen' from them like a car or a house. Several women on this site have expressed disappointment with the lack of moderation surrounding sexism on these forums. If you want to have a clause in the Code of Conduct saying you don't tolerate sexism, I suggest you at least define sexism, because by you are alienating your female forum-goers with how shockingly tolerant you are of it.
Can someone please clarify what qualifies as sexism around here? Apparently calling women who don't dress modestly enough for your tastes "sluts" and comparing them to objects who have sex robbed from them isn't sexist according to the Escapists standards, so I would be fascinated to know what is.
It's not 'a' post. Go through this thread: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.401808-The-Provocative-Clothing-Rape-Defense?page=1
and ctrl-f "slut", then read those posts. Here, I'll help you out a bit. These are all from the second page alone:
cerebreturns said:
People don't use it as a defense for rape except in cases of where the woman's character comes into question. It's the same way as a woman who's constantly going to bars, who is known for being a slut and so on.
If enough tags up then it can be considered circumstantial evidence against her case of rape.
There are a lot of cases of women later on coming out and saying that the person who "raped" them in fact didn't rape them but they said it.
They don't use it as a defence for rape. It's a way of giving the person who wore as much as a bra and some knickers some responsibility. Dressing like a slut means you're only going to be seen and treated as a slut by some stranger, hell probably even to a lot of people who know you well, so some responsibility needs to be accepted for that.
A moderator actually responded to this next one later in the thread saying that "We don't tolerate language like [retard] here" and then proceeded to tolerate the shit out of it seeing as it wasn't moderated in any way.
Deryl Owens said:
I like how the subject of the woman being flirtatous and leading the man on is not included. You think women only DRESS a certain way or do you think it follows that they also act a certain way when dressed (lets not pull any punches here) like a slut. Try to act like booty shorts at the club instead of the gym is somehow not slutty if you want to but then youre just being dishonest.
Before you say (like a retard) that Im actually defending the rapist: False. I am not defending the rapist. Rape is so obviously wrong it is insulting you accuse me of thinking otherwise.
This isn't even counting the people who compared women to objects who have sex 'stolen' from them like a car or a house. Several women on this site have expressed disappointment with the lack of moderation surrounding sexism on these forums. If you want to have a clause in the Code of Conduct saying you don't tolerate sexism, I suggest you at least define sexism, because by you are alienating your female forum-goers with how shockingly tolerant you are of it.
Firstly Manic, I'd like to apologise for taking so long to get back to you on this matter.
I find it troubling that you and other people feel that we are tolerant of sexism, I'll admit that I'm not perfect and I do fuck up sometimes, I've emailed all of the mods with regards to this issue to get a round table discussion on this matter.
Yeah, like @TopazFusion said, you'll get answers more quickly/easier in the Mod Group.
However since I'm here anyway. No, we can't see what a post was flagged for. We can see the post itself (obviously) and where it's posted, so if it's obviously a report for being in the wrong section we'll notice.
Firstly Manic, I'd like to apologise for taking so long to get back to you on this matter.
I find it troubling that you and other people feel that we are tolerant of sexism, I'll admit that I'm not perfect and I do fuck up sometimes, I've emailed all of the mods with regards to this issue to get a round table discussion on this matter.
I'll give you my reply then. The topic was brought up with the mods in general, and it will probably not come as a surprise that we're not 100% in agreement. I don't know if an official line will be communicated, but here's my view as I posted it in the mod-discussion:
Since he posted that complaint I've wanted to reply a few times, but since this all happened outside my jurisdiction and I didn't want to step on anyone's toes I refrained from doing so.
IMO, the issues brought forward by this user aren't sexism, they're definitely not nice, but calling a subgroup of women 'slut' and not all of them is pretty much by definition not sexism. The issue he has with "comparing women to houses, who have sex stolen from them" I also don't really agree with, I think it's a rather apt comparison usually.
I don't really have any good ideas as to how to communicate this to the user(s) though. I feel just explaining why I feel this way will only lead to more discussion
I'll give you my reply then. The topic was brought up with the mods in general, and it will probably not come as a surprise that we're not 100% in agreement. I don't know if an official line will be communicated, but here's my view as I posted it in the mod-discussion:
Since he posted that complaint I've wanted to reply a few times, but since this all happened outside my jurisdiction and I didn't want to step on anyone's toes I refrained from doing so.
IMO, the issues brought forward by this user aren't sexism, they're definitely not nice, but calling a subgroup of women 'slut' and not all of them is pretty much by definition not sexism. The issue he has with "comparing women to houses, who have sex stolen from them" I also don't really agree with, I think it's a rather apt comparison usually.
I don't really have any good ideas as to how to communicate this to the user(s) though. I feel just explaining why I feel this way will only lead to more discussion
Woooow, okay. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I did have some vestiges of hope that have now been quite thoroughly dashed.
Saying "Some women are sluts" is about as not sexist as saying "Some black people are niggers" isn't racist. "Slut" is a slur designed to shame women who enjoy their sexuality. It's fucking horrifying that you would say it's not sexist. You could argue that some people use "slut" to describe men, but some people use "******" to describe white people, and some people call their straight friends "faggots". Personal usage doesn't change the shameful historical origins and cultural connotations of slurs.
And pray, how is it "a rather apt comparison" to compare women to houses? Last I checked my vagina didn't have a lock, but I'll go check a second time, and while I'm at it I may as well wash some of the vomit out of my mouth.
Woooow, okay. I'm not sure what I was expecting but I did have some vestiges of hope that have now been quite thoroughly dashed.
Saying "Some women are sluts" is about as not sexist as saying "Some black people are niggers" isn't racist. "Slut" is a slur designed to shame women who enjoy their sexuality. It's fucking horrifying that you would say it's not sexist. You could argue that some people use "slut" to describe men, but some people use "******" to describe white people, and some people call their straight friends "faggots". Personal usage doesn't change the shameful historical origins and cultural connotations of slurs.
And pray, how is it "a rather apt comparison" to compare women to houses? Last I checked my vagina didn't have a lock, but I'll go check a second time, and while I'm at it I may as well wash some of the vomit out of my mouth.
Yes, but it's the personal opinion of someone who has the power to ban users or dismiss reported posts from the queue, and with rules like "don't be offensive" and "don't be a jerk" personal opinion is exactly what we're relying on. Doesn't really cut it as an excuse.
Edit: By the way Sky I just wanted to say I really appreciate your efforts. I can see you're trying hard to act as mediator and just make everyone happy. However, this site is becoming increasingly alienating with its attitudes towards women and minorities and I just want an honest answer as to where the site stands on this issue. You know, as opposed to an dismissive assessment of what women are reasonably entitled to find offensive, shielded flimsily behind a banner of "Just my opinion man".
Yes, but it's the personal opinion of someone who has the power to ban users or dismiss reported posts from the queue, and with rules like "don't be offensive" and "don't be a jerk" personal opinion is exactly what we're relying on. Doesn't really cut it as an excuse.
Edit: By the way Sky I just wanted to say I really appreciate your efforts. I can see you're trying hard to act as mediator and just make everyone happy. However, this site is becoming increasingly alienating with its attitudes towards women and minorities and I just want an honest answer as to where the site stands on this issue. You know, as opposed to an dismissive assessment of what women are reasonably entitled to find offensive, shielded flimsily behind a banner of "Just my opinion man".
Alright, I'll bring it up with the Staff when they get on the IRC, then I should be able to get a much quicker response then sending a mass of PMs out.
I can see why you'd be uncomfortable knowing someone with an opposing opinion has banning rights, but I can assure you Eleuthera and the other mods don't let personal feelings get in the way of their judgements.
Hopefully we can get a set of official rules for us Mods to follow, so there's less inconsistency with this subject in the future. D:
Yes, but it's the personal opinion of someone who has the power to ban users or dismiss reported posts from the queue, and with rules like "don't be offensive" and "don't be a jerk" personal opinion is exactly what we're relying on. Doesn't really cut it as an excuse.
You do make my last point for me nicely. I didn't want to post anything in fear of escalating the discussion.
manic_depressive13 said:
Saying "Some women are sluts" is about as not sexist as saying "Some black people are niggers" isn't racist. "Slut" is a slur designed to shame women who enjoy their sexuality. It's fucking horrifying that you would say it's not sexist. You could argue that some people use "slut" to describe men, but some people use "******" to describe white people, and some people call their straight friends "faggots". Personal usage doesn't change the shameful historical origins and cultural connotations of slurs.
It's more akin to saying "Some black people are assholes". Slut is not a sexist term, it's an insult. Calling someone a slut will get you modded, just like calling someone an asshole will. Saying "some people are assholes" will not, neither should "some people are sluts". In short I do not accept "Slut" to be a sexist term, and there fore not liable to modwrath in and of itself. If you feel this makes me unsuitable as a mod, feel free to take it up with the staff, if they agree with you I won't make a fuss.
manic_depressive13 said:
And pray, how is it "a rather apt comparison" to compare women to houses? Last I checked my vagina didn't have a lock, but I'll go check a second time, and while I'm at it I may as well wash some of the vomit out of my mouth.
I don't see how this is difficult to grasp. Burglary is bad. Rape is bad. Trying not to get burgled is common sense. Trying not to get raped is common sense.
Is dressing sexily an invite to rape? Of course not!
Is leaving your door unlocked an invite to burglary? Of course not!
Yes, but it's the personal opinion of someone who has the power to ban users or dismiss reported posts from the queue, and with rules like "don't be offensive" and "don't be a jerk" personal opinion is exactly what we're relying on. Doesn't really cut it as an excuse.
It's more akin to saying "Some black people are assholes". Slut is not a sexist term, it's an insult. Calling someone a slut will get you modded, just like calling someone an asshole will. Saying "some people are assholes" will not, neither should "some people are sluts". In short I do not accept "Slut" to be a sexist term, and there fore not liable to modwrath in and of itself. If you feel this makes me unsuitable as a mod, feel free to take it up with the staff, if they agree with you I won't make a fuss.
I would if I thought it was just you, but I seriously doubt it. Anyway, you're wrong. Slut isn't gender neutral. As I said it has historical and cultural connotations. I find your denial of this absurd and disturbing. I honestly don't know how to respond to it. Someone may as well be telling me that "******" isn't a racial slur, and it's the same as using the word "dick" or "shithead". It just isn't. I don't even. You can't just randomly swap the offensive word and pretend it's the same thing. "Asshole" isn't a slur. They could have said "some women are assholes" but they didn't- they used the word slut and that's not something that should be acceptable, particularly when you are pretending that sexism is against the Code of Conduct.
I don't see how this is difficult to grasp. Burglary is bad. Rape is bad. Trying not to get burgled is common sense. Trying not to get raped is common sense.
Is dressing sexily an invite to rape? Of course not!
Is leaving your door unlocked an invite to burglary? Of course not!
Okay thanks, but my problem isn't with "opposing opinions", it's with offensive or bigoted opinions and language. I wouldn't have a problem with someone who thinks Dark Souls is a terrible game being a Mod.
And it obviously would affect their moderating because someone who doesn't acknowledge that "slut" is a sexist slur wouldn't feel the need to moderate a poster using that word for sexism.
Because of the issues raised by some users about the moderation of more difficult subjects, like sexism and bigotry, we've been asked to make an 'official response'.
As in the Code of Conduct, these areas are already covered:
Use Our Forums Appropriately
Our forums are a place to talk with like-minded people, not a place to advertise your blog, webpage, YouTube channel or commercial enterprise. Your profile has a place for such things, and that is where it should stay. If you fail to do this, you will automatically get a 1 month suspension.
Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:
Piracy
Ad Blockers
Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks
We feel these rules are adequte enough to explain what not to post about these subjects, and considering the different amount of personal opinions, we cannot makes the rules any clearer without upsetting more people.
There were also issues raised about not being able to post more controversial opinions without fear of getting punished. However, as mentioned in the Moderation FAQ:
I want to post a controversial opinion, what should I do to avoid mod wrath?
Our cardinal rule is that it is more about how you say something, not what you say. Always make sure to explain your reasoning and to be respectful of other users, no matter their opinion. We do not usually punish people for someone else being offended; we punish them for being purposely offensive.
By following these guidelines, you should be able to avoid punishments for your opinions, as long as you stay civil when discussing them with each other.
As for Moderation inconsistency, as we've stated many times; it's a big forum. we rely on you, the users, to report the majority of posts that we review. If you feel a post is offensive, please report it.
Don't assume someone else will report it, because that might not be true. If someones opinion seems offensive, to you or to others, you can still report it. We give each reported post the same amount of consideration.
If you feel there is Moderator bias and your report isn't getting handled the way you wish, please PM an individual mod you trust, or a member of staff. There's also the Community Manager Nasrin, who is in charge of all the Moderators.
Here is a list of Moderators to contact about any of the issues raised on the forums.
All of the moderators try their best to make sure the Escapist is a friendly, welcoming environment, regaurdless of personal beliefs. However, to do this, we also need the cooperation of you, the users.
So basically you guys refuse to elaborate what constitutes sexism? I already brought the issue directly to the mods in the previous page where I provided several examples of people casually using the term "slut" in what I (and several other women on the site) felt was an inappropriate manner. Is your final answer that calling women sluts is not sexist by the Escapist's standards, and this issue is not going to be addressed?
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