The Batman trailer is here

Piscian

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Were you able to tell
whether Riddler knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? I got the impression he was just saying the name out of jealousy for the prince of Gotham but actually doesn't even suspect Batman and Bruce are the same. If so, him repeating the name is weird. If not, isn't Batman hosed?
I like to think it's kept ambiguous int
Were you able to tell
whether Riddler knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? I got the impression he was just saying the name out of jealousy for the prince of Gotham but actually doesn't even suspect Batman and Bruce are the same. If so, him repeating the name is weird. If not, isn't Batman hosed?
I was very confused. I watched a break down online that mused that he was so blinded by his hatred for one and his fan obsession with the other that he couldn't fathom them being the same person.


One thing I think that works in this Batmans favor is that he's low tech enough that it's not eliminating the number of people who could be Batman. Based on what cities seen of him he could just be a cop. His car is not street legal but it's just a car. His tools are largely stuff you could put together yourself if somewhat military grade. Keep in mind nobody knows about his eyeball cam.
 

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I was very confused. I watched a break down online that mused that he was so blinded by his hatred for one and his fan obsession with the other that he couldn't fathom them being the same person.
That is the correct answer. The movie spells it out by the end. I saw nothing confusing with the particular scene.
 
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gorfias

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I like to think it's kept ambiguous int


I was very confused. I watched a break down online that mused that he was so blinded by his hatred for one and his fan obsession with the other that he couldn't fathom them being the same person.


One thing I think that works in this Batmans favor is that he's low tech enough that it's not eliminating the number of people who could be Batman. Based on what cities seen of him he could just be a cop. His car is not street legal but it's just a car. His tools are largely stuff you could put together yourself if somewhat military grade. Keep in mind nobody knows about his eyeball cam.
I see it with buddies again tonight which should help me clarify it for myself but that is a decent explanation.
I hear Penguin is getting his own series (HBO-Max?).
World wide, this has made $320 million so far. Pretty good. Enough to guarantee a part 2?
I saw it reported that the only DC comics in the top 50 are either Batman, or Batman adjacent. We're getting a Michael Keaton Batman in the upcoming Flash Paradox movie. Titans has a Batman though we don't see much of him. I hear he's going to be on TV.
Can people ever get enough of this character?
 

Piscian

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I see it with buddies again tonight which should help me clarify it for myself but that is a decent explanation.
I hear Penguin is getting his own series (HBO-Max?).
World wide, this has made $320 million so far. Pretty good. Enough to guarantee a part 2?
I saw it reported that the only DC comics in the top 50 are either Batman, or Batman adjacent. We're getting a Michael Keaton Batman in the upcoming Flash Paradox movie. Titans has a Batman though we don't see much of him. I hear he's going to be on TV.
Can people ever get enough of this character?

I think it's largely empathy driven. Batman is the Pinnacle of obtainable vigilantism. He just hits all the right marks. Fans will always gravitate towards characters they can live vicariously through. You can watch the trends in storylines. As Batman gets more ridiculous with worlds greatest detective ninja James bond stuff people get bored and sales go down. You have him fight his best friend or the court of owls, losing everything, sales go up.

DCs biggest problem is character writing. They have a stable of these iconic one note characters who's backgrounds are mostly just whatever their power is and they struggle to take them anywhere interesting.

It's impossible for the modern average Joe to connect with Green lantern or Superman. I'd argue though that's largely writing. Next to Batman it's Spider-Man. Spiderman has powers and should not be empathetic but a big part of his personality quite literally is that he's an average Joe. A poor loveless schmuck. He's the most popular hero these days partially just because his daily tribulations are so empathetic.

I suspect this Batman is going to be pretty popular for a while. It's the mostly timely and human Batman we've on the big screen.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Were you able to tell
whether Riddler knows Batman is Bruce Wayne? I got the impression he was just saying the name out of jealousy for the prince of Gotham but actually doesn't even suspect Batman and Bruce are the same. If so, him repeating the name is weird. If not, isn't Batman hosed?
I'm pretty sure that scene with Batman and Riddler very specifically let the audience know that Riddler didn't know Bruce Wayne is Batman. It felt like Batman was super relieved (through a combo of his expression, the sound/musical cue and the way it was shot) when Riddler said whatever the huge tell was that he didn't know. I guess a sequel could basically retcon that and act like it was part of Riddler's even bigger plan.

I went back and watched Batman Begins and The Dark Knight again (going to watch Rises later today) and Begins isn't as good as I remember, it's solid but nothing great. And you're totally right about those TDK comparisons to The Batman, TDK is on such a different level, it's not even funny. I really can't believe how tightly paced it is and the movie like never slows down. At one point, I checked the time and I'm like it's only an hour in and all this shit already happened. And, of course, TDK themes are constantly and consistently weaved throughout just about every scene. There's really no questioning what's this scene doing here or questioning character motivations. The only scene that I thought could've been edited better was the first fight scene in the movie.
 
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BrawlMan

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DCs biggest problem is character writing. They have a stable of these iconic one note characters who's backgrounds are mostly just whatever their power is and they struggle to take them anywhere interesting.
In the hands of bad or incompetent writers that don't care or missed the point. These characters have plenty of good writers when you bother to look for more than 5 minutes.

It's impossible for the modern average Joe to connect with Green lantern or Superman.
Bullshit. You can connect to any character as long as the writing is good. Besides, not every character has to be "relatable" to be likable, sympathetic, or interesting. Besides, making a character always "relatable" has consequences too. Counterpoints are timestamped.

Time stamp @ 2:19. Most important point @ 6:47. For some reasons the videos won't show up on the site, so I had to do it this way.

EDIT: Just check Marvel/DC After Hours #7 Part 2 on YouTube. For some reason it won't link either points. Just watch at those time stamps for the same video.

 
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gorfias

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I'm pretty sure that scene with Batman and Riddler very specifically let the audience know that Riddler didn't know Bruce Wayne is Batman. It felt like Batman was super relieved (through a combo of his expression, the sound/musical cue and the way it was shot) when Riddler said whatever the huge tell was that he didn't know. I guess a sequel could basically retcon that and act like it was part of Riddler's even bigger plan.

I went back and watched Batman Begins and The Dark Knight again (going to watch Rises later today) and Begins isn't as good as I remember, it's solid but nothing great. And you're totally right about those TDK comparisons to The Batman, TDK is on such a different level, it's not even funny. I really can't believe how tightly paced it is and the movie like never slows down. At one point, I checked the time and I'm like it's only an hour in and all this shit already happened. And, of course, TDK themes are constantly and consistently weaved throughout just about every scene. There's really no questioning what's this scene doing here or questioning character motivations. The only scene that I thought could've been edited better was the first fight scene in the movie.
The Dark Knight is one of those movies where once in a while, I want to watch a scene or two and end up watching the whole thing.
Batman Begins has its problems. Not in the same league with TDK. What is? Some great scenes. Oddly, one of my favorite scenes is when young Bruce Wayne speaks to Falcone in that bar. "Now that's the power of fear!"

Enjoy Dark Knight Rises. That is one where I can watch scenes rather than the whole movie. Especially the 1st fight with Bane and Batman are just so excellent. The opening sequence on the plane is pretty spectacular as well.
 

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I found it kind of interesting that they solved the Gotham problem by simply "not" solving it. In fact they went whole hog beyond what Burton and Shoemacher did. The new Gotham is a Silent Hill inspired gothic horror nightmare. I loved the architecture and look. While Burton and Shoemacher did a kind of "Metropolis" inspired look the new one looks literally out of a horror story. Everything is cover in soot, street lights blink on and off.

The first couple nolan films worked because whenever they do show Batman its largely at night so you still get that weighty nighttime feel, but in Dark Knight Rises it takes place entirely in the day and Gotham just looks like Manhattan or Chicago. Its boring to look at and by the end of the movie you start to feel like you're not watching Batman you're watching a die hard sequel.

However, The Batmans look helps it remain tonally consistent throughout even towards the end they manage to make the flooding foreboding with people like Rats fleeing a sinking ship and the foreboding red emergency lights.

I think thats why the ending partially disappointing me, that they ended on a kind of Nolan tone that he needs to be a symbol of hope. I hope whatever they do they keep going with the horror theme. I really think you don't need to explain what Gotham or Batman is like during the day. No one wants to read or see that shit. Thats what Superman is for.

I hope they dig into Tales from the Crypt or other EC comics for inspiration on the sequel.
Gotham during the day is what Bruce Wayne is for. You have the juxtaposition; may as well use it.
 

gorfias

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I got to see it again.
The costume reminds me of Arkham Knight:
1647228897966.png
Very subtle that you find Riddler does NOT know Batman is Bruce Wayne. Riddler says "we" got all but one. Bruce Wayne got away from "them". He sees Batman as his partner. Upon 2nd viewing, I hear Penguin yelling, "I didn't shoot" as Falcone lies dying from a gunshot wound. They likely believed him, realizing Falcone was shot by Riddler from a snipers position in a building across the street. This explains why Penguin is not in jail at the end of the movie. I don't buy Riddler wanting to get busted. In 7, the bad guy has a reason to want to be arrested [set up Pitt to become the sin wrath] in Dark Knight, Joker wants to be arrested to get access to Calculator so he could kidnap and murder him. What did the Riddler gain by getting arrested?

Of my 4 buddies in my nerd squad, 1 disliked it. He owned a comic book store back in the day and loves 1960s comics and, those stories don't really work in a $200 million block buster. The other 3 LOVED it. The loved the tone, music, pacing of it all. So, there's that.

I hope y'all get to see it to make up your own minds.

Edit:
this guy still thinks Riddler DOES know Batman is Wayne:
 
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Ezekiel

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Now watching The Cat and the Claw again, the first Catwoman episode of the animated series. Had to pause after their first encounter to say she's so likable. That voice, that look, the dialogue. Just reinforces what I thought of the version in this movie, that she isn't much fun, partly because of those
daddy issues
and partly because it's so serious. Lazy when I think about it. I mean, how many ideas for conflict does a writer go through before deciding it's the
mother or father?
I'm reminded of a recent live action Disney movie.
 
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BrawlMan

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Both are awesome Cat Women that have their own thing. That is all. Besides, all versions are different any way.
 

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The Dark Knight is one of those movies where once in a while, I want to watch a scene or two and end up watching the whole thing.
Batman Begins has its problems. Not in the same league with TDK. What is? Some great scenes. Oddly, one of my favorite scenes is when young Bruce Wayne speaks to Falcone in that bar. "Now that's the power of fear!"

Enjoy Dark Knight Rises. That is one where I can watch scenes rather than the whole movie. Especially the 1st fight with Bane and Batman are just so excellent. The opening sequence on the plane is pretty spectacular as well.
I liked Rises more than I remember, probably about even with Begins, like 7/10. I think I'll continue on and watch the rest of the Batman movies I own, Batman Returns and Under the Red Hood animated movie.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Jack's take on the movie is almost 100% my take on the movie; The Batman actively hates Batman. Also, I like how Darren points out the themes of The Batman is like exactly what Nolan did, which is so true as I just watched them all. Hell the theme of Rises is in the freaking trailer, "There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.” And the super extreme gritty version of Batman has already been done in Watchmen, and done much better.
 

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Interesting and not surprising. I'm happy!
  • Friendly Fandoms:
    • Fans of the film have gotten along well with fans of Moon Knight (2022) due to them both premiering on the same month — March — and are darker, psychological takes on the superhero genre.
    • The relationship of fans of this film and of Zack Snyder's DC movies is stuck somewhere between this and Fandom Rivalry, as despite the questions of whether this version of Batman will replace Ben Affleck's take on the character, the film parallels Snyder's take on the DC franchise in being a deconstructive "dark and gritty" take on the characters, filmed in a bold visual style. There are many fans who like both and are sincerely trying to bring the two sides together, a fact helped by Zack Snyder and Matt Reeves being friends in real life who have openly praised each other's work.
    • Fans of Gotham embraced the film early on, due in part to the presence of fan favorites Penguin and Riddler.
    • Fans of Batman: The Animated Series have quickly embraced this film not long after the trailers surfaced and even more-so when the film came out, due to the film's themes and its depiction of Batman harkening back to BTAS. It helps that BTAS is confirmed to have been used as inspiration for the film.
 

Piscian

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I liked Rises more than I remember, probably about even with Begins, like 7/10. I think I'll continue on and watch the rest of the Batman movies I own, Batman Returns and Under the Red Hood animated movie.
I rewatched Dark Knight, Rises and Under The Red Hood a couple days ago.

For my two cents Dark Knight is a solid film on its own, but Joker makes a fundamental difference in the quality of scenes he's in. He's almost in a different movie. It's a great film, but I noticed for all the times I've seen it I space out during the Chinese hijacking section of the film. It's just not that compelling narratively. As I'd said previously I really lose interest when Batman does hightech stuff and the whole "Batman" theme takes the day off and he's just James bond in a ninja outfit.

I still do not like Rises. It is definitely a film where if you only remember the high points you forget why it had such tepid response on release. You remember those big bombastic Bane scenes where Tom Hardy chew the scenery like he's in Shakespeare. However its very bloated. The Bane, Talia Al Gul bait and switch just adds nothing to the film for me and makes Bane worse for it. The movie sidetracks a lot. I think you could have cut like 30 minutes out, removed Talia and Robin and it would be a much better movie. All the great scenes are Bane or Bane and Batman. Cat woman works, but honestly Anne Hathaway could be just about anybody. I like her as an actress, but I didn't find her compelling. The ending drags. I get the general sense that this is a misfire for Nolan similar to Interstellar. You see what he envisioned, but it doesn't quite come together.

I enjoyed Under The Red Hood. I think whomever came up with Red Hood and his design struck gold. He's a very compelling antihero. My only big complaint is that joker is a bit of a wet noodle. His design is ugly and he's lacking in the sinister.
 

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Cause he shoots a couple goons? Whoop.
Not because he shoots them. It's the way he does act and the build up to it. This let's the audience and other super villains to remind them of never underestimate the Joker!

Also, that's fucking John DiMaggio voice (Bender, Jake the Dog, and Kreese Kreeley). He definitely can pull off the laugh and has his own unique spin to the character.

Show some respect; stand one knee! /sarcasm.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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I noticed too in all the scenes they called him "Riddler" its either an isolated shot of a single character, or Batman has his back to camera and you can't see his mouth.
I counted at least 11 mentions of the Riddler, by name, with the actor's mouth in plain visibility. The only isolated one is when Colson speaks to Selina in first person POV. Batman and Gordon mention him by name after the breakout scene, by the bat signal, and again when grueling Penguin (he mentions the name as well). Selina too during the white privilege scene. They're all composite shots and nothing about them screams obvious reshoot like you're painting them out to be.